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...And One Up The Sleeve by Lemon.
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screenshot added by Hannibal on 2025-07-18 20:39:32
platform :
type :
release date : july 2025
  • 58
  • 2
  • 0
popularity : 63%
 63%
  • 0.97
alltime top: #3631
added on the 2025-07-18 20:39:31 by Hannibal Hannibal

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God dammit, I had 73 columns ready to release! Back to the drawing board :-)
Congrats on the record!
rulez added on the 2025-07-18 21:32:34 by gigabates gigabates
Sweet Ala Lemon.
rulez added on the 2025-07-18 21:50:51 by Jade Jade
love the logo.
rulez added on the 2025-07-18 21:52:09 by neoman neoman
Nooooo but ok, well played there Lemon.
rulez added on the 2025-07-18 21:56:30 by Ramon B5 Ramon B5
Awesome prod from chunky wars galaxy!! Congratz!!
rulez added on the 2025-07-18 22:07:02 by Norby Norby
\o/ Congratz! Awesome prod!
rulez added on the 2025-07-18 22:27:33 by sachy sachy
Cool! Amiga rulez. Lemon. rulez. Hannibal rulez. ;)
rulez added on the 2025-07-18 22:41:53 by sim sim
Nice music, nice gfx, nice code.
rulez added on the 2025-07-18 22:54:02 by Depeche Depeche
Congratz , Game Over ;)
rulez added on the 2025-07-18 22:54:23 by Tedy Tedy
Cooool
So what's the tally now?
rulez added on the 2025-07-18 23:00:40 by p01 p01
sunjohn and virgill making demos and breaking world records. is it '92 or what? :D love it! also kickass logo by ck <3
rulez added on the 2025-07-18 23:06:30 by teo teo
When you need the very latest winuae emulator to run world record, it means it contains pretty nerd tricks! Record splashed, congrats!
rulez added on the 2025-07-18 23:10:16 by leonard leonard
cool
Missed the thumb
rulez added on the 2025-07-18 23:13:59 by Daddy Freddy Daddy Freddy
:D
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 00:00:28 by keops keops
Artefacts in FSUAE, but that's a badge of honor in this case :) Awesome stuff!
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 00:02:32 by rloaderro rloaderro
Pushing!
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 00:17:17 by Hicks Hicks
cool, and very funny, too.
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 02:28:14 by fiveofive fiveofive
Cool! What a nice logo, by the way.
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 02:29:17 by ham ham
What ham said.
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 09:00:26 by Olympian Olympian
Love it!
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 09:38:54 by BlazeB BlazeB
Soon we need to get to tarot cards, I guess.
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 10:05:32 by Sesse Sesse
Nice!
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 10:16:52 by Foebane72 Foebane72
"jaha ja taas mennään" :D Great!
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 10:37:27 by leGend leGend
Very ruling in every aspect!
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 10:40:05 by cruzer cruzer
Inevitable. ;)

These width records are getting a tad ridiculous as we are approaching overscan territory...
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 11:28:15 by Blueberry Blueberry
Never stop the madness :D
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 11:32:02 by pyksy pyksy
Wide load indeed, well done Soren
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 11:39:59 by Corial Corial
cool
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 11:41:14 by SiR SiR
This is what happens when you remove the “copperchunky” restriction on this challenge xD
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 13:26:47 by Rhino/BG Rhino/BG
Looks like Hannibal has lots of dogs to unleash after all these years. Well done!
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 14:12:28 by Soundy Soundy
I think this totally takes the middle-agedness crown from Rink-a-Dink Redux since the kid's face is not even edited :-D And the grats for breaking the other record as well =D <3
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 14:42:27 by hot multimedia hot multimedia
I love the effect, and the sneaky way it covers ham fringing. Seems the columns are shorter than the other intros?
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 14:57:50 by xeron xeron
Nice... wider with less line ?
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 17:16:19 by Beb Beb
OK.
added on the 2025-07-19 19:39:49 by AntDude AntDude
Lovely stuff and thanks for the greets <3
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 20:21:52 by britelite britelite
A lot more then »OK.«
rulez added on the 2025-07-19 22:36:07 by gaspode gaspode
nice
awesome :)
rulez added on the 2025-07-20 00:22:15 by DeaTure DeaTure
I wanted to get this out there as soon as it was ready, as I was sure multiple people were inspired by Blueberry's work and trying to beat it - and Gigabates' post confirmed my suspicion. Thank you to Virgill and Critikill for quickly getting the beautiful logo and great music together. I just used some old photos because I didn't want to wait for hand-painted images.

Xeron, yes, even though it is a little wider than Blueberry's, it is a lot shorter. This is because my solution is a lot less clean than Blueberry's, and has a lot of CPU and copper instructions doing things other than just setting colors. While my code is using CPU to set some colors, it isn't CPU cycle exact, and therefore isn't as optimized.

Regardless of what we each think is a record, I think we can agree there are (at least) 3 great rotzoomers showing something never seen before - Rhino's theoretical maximum for real 4x4 copperchunky (every color set with copper move commands into the color registers), Blueberry's elegant, cycle perfect, super optimized CPU version, and my triple-technique solution here.

Finally, I don't think the battle is over.
added on the 2025-07-20 06:45:54 by Hannibal Hannibal
The best part of record breaking is when assumptions are broken. Assuming there's only one way to make the copper loop. Assuming that all colors are written by the copper. Assuming that HAM can't produce crisp pixels blocks.

Also what Leonard and Loaderror said. Every so often, people on other platforms brag about breaking emulators, but it rarely happens on Amiga.
added on the 2025-07-20 11:33:01 by Blueberry Blueberry
Well done
rulez added on the 2025-07-20 12:00:35 by Frequent Frequent
@Hannibal I haven't looked at your code to see the technique you use, but if it's based on a way to avoid the ‘anti-aliasing’ of HAM, then the width challenge doesn't make sense anymore because with this technique you could make it any width, including the maximum overscan width? Or is there some limitation why you couldn't make it wider than 80 columns?
added on the 2025-07-20 13:47:52 by Rhino/BG Rhino/BG
The ham fringing is masked rather than avoided. This introduces its own limits.
added on the 2025-07-20 14:33:42 by xeron xeron
The width challenge still makes sense :-)
added on the 2025-07-20 16:06:15 by Hannibal Hannibal
I'm interested to see how many columns can be done with at least the same number of rows as 12 jokers
added on the 2025-07-20 16:42:52 by xeron xeron
Another record. Awesome!
rulez added on the 2025-07-20 17:36:43 by Morbid Morbid
The column count is growing, but the row count is shrinking. :) The 80-wide pic rotozooms in one repeating loop and the scroller stops after a few seconds. Seems some corners are being cut. :) All the different approaches are cool to watch though, and impressive even if I have little to no technical knowledge of the Amiga 500 chips. The music and logo are good too and I think that's an important part of these record breakers.

A great quote from Wired magazine, "Demo or Die!", July 1995:

"Somebody released a demo saying, Look at this, we can get 64 BOBs running around on screen. So, of course then somebody said, 64? I can get 68. - 68? I can get 80. - 80? And so on.... It got to around 200. One of our guys was a particular fan of the BOB war and was determined to win it. Eventually," says Jolyon, "it was won by someone who did infinite BOBs, but that was really a big cheat. But they were all cheats, so it didn't really matter."
rulez added on the 2025-07-20 18:50:57 by phoenix phoenix
For the one fact about the worldrecords future of which we can be certain is that it will be utterly fantastic! :)
added on the 2025-07-20 23:11:42 by magic magic
Sweet! I'm having a strong... Desire to see what's coming up next :)
rulez added on the 2025-07-21 00:22:51 by losso losso
Congrats on the new record and on the slick presentation!
rulez added on the 2025-07-21 08:14:07 by v3nom v3nom
Splendid!
rulez added on the 2025-07-21 09:16:00 by gopher gopher
Forgot the 👍 thumb
rulez added on the 2025-07-21 10:36:18 by magic magic
roolz! Next one? tic tac...
rulez added on the 2025-07-21 11:57:15 by JosSs JosSs
I'd love a write up. From what I can see it looks like there are ham columns interleaved with sprite columns for most of the width and then some regular palette columns for the right part.

If that's accurate then that's very clever, but I could have it wrong and I'm sure there's more tricky details to be explained.

It's fewer rows which is a shame but how many chunky pixels is it compared to Blueberry?
rulez added on the 2025-07-21 12:45:52 by Jobbo Jobbo
BB Image

Well played. ;)
added on the 2025-07-21 13:20:11 by Blueberry Blueberry
Someone discouraged me from doing tech writeups and open sourcing of 3DD3 to let everyone have fun doing their own investigations and guessing. However, since you've already figured out everything, Jobbo, I'm happy to just add a few more details.

The first 256 pixels is 4-bitplane HAM with fixed pixel order xxrgbbbbxxrgbbbb (x being garbage), overlaid with sprites that cover all the xxrg pixels. This is done with fixed patterns like 1111000022220000, and with sprite DMA off. I also use attached sprite mode without attaching them, to get colors 4 and 8

The last 64 pixels is just non-HAM 4 bitplanes showing 16 columns in color 0 to 15.

The copper is busy updating sprite colors and moving sprites forward on each rasterline to cover the full 256 pixels, and switching screen modes at the exact right time. The CPU sets the other colors.

The copper also has to use the sprites to cover the transition from HAM to non-HAM, as there was some minor garbage from the bitplanes. I didn't investigate if there was a way to avoid that garbage.

In order to draw both HAM and non-HAM pixels, I have 2 copies of each image in memory: one in regular 0000rrrrggggbbbb format and one encoded in rgbbrgbbrgbbrgbb format. I rotzoom the HAM bits into an intermediate buffer I do 2 passes of copper-controlled chunky-to-planer blits on the HAM intermediate buffer to get them into the right format (which ends up being 4 blits in total for the 2 passes).

The images are 256 wide and 128 tall, so they can fit in 64k buffer, which enables image tiling, as all reads are with 16 bit offsets of -$8000 to $7ffe. I also have the images duplicated twice next to each other, so they take 128k. This allows full panning and zooming by offsetting the address pointer between ImageStart+$8000 and ImageStart+$17ffe.

Blueberry's is larger than mine in part because he sets many more colors with the CPU and is more efficient during that loop, and in part because I have to spend dma cycles moving sprites and change display settings.

I'm pretty sure 80 is not the limit. There are many puzzle pieces to move around, and so far I've spotted 2 things I think I could have done better. Plus I wonder what other crazy techniques other people have come up with - it would have been fun to see Gigabates' work.
added on the 2025-07-21 16:15:35 by Hannibal Hannibal
And the emulator issues were unsurprisingly caused by changing display mode mid-rasterline. The surprising part is that Toni had already fixed it in the latest version. WinUAE is really amazingly accurate.
added on the 2025-07-21 16:21:54 by Hannibal Hannibal
IIUC, the chipset emulation in the latest WinUAE is completely rewritten based on leaked schematics. :)
added on the 2025-07-21 18:16:09 by Blueberry Blueberry
I love the record chasing. But as a package I find this one less convincing compared to other recent record prods.
rulez added on the 2025-07-21 18:56:02 by cp_ cp_
@Hannibal is there a specific (technical) reason why it's trackloaded? all others in this "competition" were just one file demos or intros..
added on the 2025-07-21 20:05:12 by magic magic
Thanks for the extra tech details.
I vote for a 3DD3 write up!
added on the 2025-07-21 21:04:10 by Jobbo Jobbo
@magic It was trackloaded because I have a solid trackloading demo OS, with a custom build toolchain, a rapid iteration loop, and lots of helper functions. It is enjoyable to use, and made it super fast to put this together.

Everything could of course be done as a single-file executable, but that would be less fun for me.
added on the 2025-07-22 04:15:09 by Hannibal Hannibal
Also, there aren't enough tracktros these days!
rulez added on the 2025-07-22 07:09:09 by Korvkiosken Korvkiosken
Juicy!
rulez added on the 2025-07-22 08:54:23 by Mystra Mystra
Awesome work I salute you.

Totally agree all tricks allowed no restrictions!
rulez added on the 2025-07-23 00:27:45 by Toffeeman Toffeeman
Hardcore work! I like it!
rulez added on the 2025-07-23 22:03:36 by Smaugur Smaugur
How offensive that kid's sneering face is! Do you want to send **ckings to everyone?? ...okay, just kidding! I feel too dizzy to focus on technicalities but I got good vibes so I sheepishly upvote.
rulez added on the 2025-07-25 23:01:27 by la_mettrie la_mettrie
Nice presentation and excellent music. Mostly I love the current positioning in the pouet top of the month.
rulez added on the 2025-07-27 00:08:34 by djh0ffman djh0ffman
Much more a whole production than "some other" entries in this record breaking competition, good stuff. But, it is record breaking competition still after all, so that should be the main thing.
rulez added on the 2025-07-29 14:34:55 by serp serp
Yes!
rulez added on the 2025-07-29 18:29:27 by toms toms
Cool!
rulez added on the 2025-07-30 11:32:07 by thepunisher thepunisher
Nice.
rulez added on the 2025-07-31 14:16:32 by Antony/DTA Antony/DTA
Great job, Lemon. You pulled it off in style
rulez added on the 2025-07-31 19:41:24 by Shadowoff Shadowoff

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