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Still Sucking Nature by Federation Against Nature [web]
screenshot added by sea_monkey on 2003-04-22 03:21:45
platform :
type :
release date : april 2003
release party : Breakpoint 2003
compo : pc demo
ranked : 3rd
  • 88
  • 25
  • 15
popularity : 72%
  • 0.57
  • 1
alltime top: #738
added on the 2003-04-22 03:15:04 by sea_monkey sea_monkey

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Amazing raytracing demo, the church scene rocked da house :)
added on the 2003-04-22 03:18:30 by Crest Crest
Oh I loved that one!
rulez added on the 2003-04-22 03:19:57 by elend elend
Looks like they've gotten the hang of this boolean modelling stuff. Arches, barrels, the whole shbang. The organ gave me a stiffy. Now wherez 'dat 10 GHz CPU Santa promised me??

On a side note, perhaps it's just me but the Pentium 4 version ran a teensy weensy bit faster on my T-Bird.
rulez added on the 2003-04-22 03:24:23 by sea_monkey sea_monkey
Where's my jaw? Really impressive raytraced demo
rulez added on the 2003-04-22 04:32:09 by shash shash
WOW, really impressive prod. Great scenes, great music and really well polished. A bit on the slow side on my Athlon 950, but hey, it's RT.

rulez added on the 2003-04-22 05:01:34 by mac mac
Easily the best rtrt demo yet. And for the first time, rtrt is looking mature aswell. With realistic scenes and objects.
Framerate is 'good enough' aswell on my XP1800+.

Excellent work guys!
rulez added on the 2003-04-22 07:40:08 by Scali Scali
Oh boy...
Why did *this* come in third?????

Maybe FAN missed a few statements in the demo: "No use of raytracing's capabilities", "No animation", "No fun"

But I guess that's the usual "wow, they did all this in software rendering in 320x240 on a 10GHz P4 with just a few fps, stunning!".

The whole demo could've been done WAY better with an accelerator
sucks added on the 2003-04-22 10:08:18 by Hopper/SquoQuo Hopper/SquoQuo
slow and ugly. raytracing stinks if you're doing regular 3d anyway.
sucks added on the 2003-04-22 10:18:23 by skrebbel skrebbel
cheesy scenes, utmost ugly results. raytracing shouldn't serve this purpose.
sucks added on the 2003-04-22 10:20:22 by superplek superplek
misuse of raytracing... Looked like crappy Amiga demo, except that this takes like 100 times more processing.
sucks added on the 2003-04-22 10:32:41 by kurli kurli
The way raytracing shouldn't be used... a shame, really... also for some odd reason it reminded me of 'machines of madness', which is always a minus...
sucks added on the 2003-04-22 10:55:36 by uncle-x uncle-x
Great demo!
rulez added on the 2003-04-22 12:07:43 by Slumgud Slumgud
I could understand this if it had been something that just can't be done with conventional polygon rasterizers but now it looks like crap and is very slow.
sucks added on the 2003-04-22 12:25:25 by noid noid
(rolls eyes)

I like realtime raytracing as a concept, but this was cheese upon cheese upon those scenes we know from rayracing posters from 1988.

If only it did something that was impossible / hard / nicer than the conventional polygon pushing we can do today, but it's not.
sucks added on the 2003-04-22 12:42:16 by Shifter Shifter
heh, i mean, "hey we use RT for shadows, we are like oldschool, j00 man, jeee, we dont do acceleration, wiee oldschool we are jaaa, man, eey we can make it run in looow fps, jaa c0000l"

ps, this can all be done on the GPU with much higher resolution, quality and speed.

sucks added on the 2003-04-22 12:44:02 by Hatikvah Hatikvah
I am still up for raytracing!
I know this is slow, but looks very impressive, with it's perfect circular object (no ugly angular polygon object) shadows,. and I like that more human like scenes are possible now. The future?
rulez added on the 2003-04-22 12:55:24 by Optimus Optimus
dont know, looks okay but needs way to much cpu etc.
added on the 2003-04-22 13:00:35 by Kami68k Kami68k
i don't think raytracing is a good way to show these scenes when the nowadays video cards can do that easily at a full fps... the only thing helpful on a bigscreen is the lowres with the blur hide all the artifacts we see on a screen...
sucks added on the 2003-04-22 16:16:08 by spengler spengler
It impressed me, really good scenes.
rulez added on the 2003-04-22 18:12:36 by DiamonDie DiamonDie
Nice visuals.
rulez added on the 2003-04-22 19:22:04 by Gargaj Gargaj
I liked it
rulez added on the 2003-04-22 20:36:15 by reality3D reality3D
i don't know what to say...
they really made a huge effort rendering complex scenes with raytracing at a reasonable speed, but i don't think that realtime raytracing is the way to go. i doubt it will ever be faster or better looking than scanline with all its trickery.
impressive scenes, music is very good and fitting.
btw. overuse of flashing screen is NOT good for your health
added on the 2003-04-22 20:49:01 by deemage deemage
Oh, dear...

Ultra-slow (yes, even on the >2ghz compo machine) and all in all rather ordinary fly-by demo that uses RTRT. But instead of showing some top-notch only-raytracing-makes-it-possible scenes, you just get some shadows...
added on the 2003-04-22 22:28:57 by tomaes tomaes
Exactly the sort of things that'll give hard-ons to male coders. The others will pass, I guess.
added on the 2003-04-23 00:01:05 by _-_-__ _-_-__
Well I did get a hard on, so here are my congratulations for this cool tech demo!
rulez added on the 2003-04-23 00:53:12 by Jare Jare
nicely rised realism by great textures.
there are two types of demo tech- or entertainment...
if i want 2 get entertained i rather watch tv then look demos
rulez added on the 2003-04-23 01:08:38 by lunatic lunatic
Hopper: You should show a bit more respect for the work in this demo, even when it's not pleasing *you*
added on the 2003-04-23 01:28:37 by Crest Crest
I think this rocks the house!
rulez added on the 2003-04-23 01:38:17 by ekoli ekoli
it's just a tech-demo, really. a pretty nifty one, but still it's got not much to show us besides its code.
added on the 2003-04-23 09:00:01 by bhead bhead
The point is: There is nothing going on in the scenes

The scenes for themselves are mostly boring, except for the church and the organ

Flyby after flyby is not too exciting

All of this could've been done on an accelerator with doubled image quality and about 5 times the speed.

Where are all those things that can only be done with raytracing?

Despite the big "software rendering" bonus it has not much to offer

Sorry, if I did sound too harsh in my first comment

It might not be too exciting, but definitely the best FAN prod! I like it!
rulez added on the 2003-04-23 09:19:49 by pan pan
Very cool raytracing demo. While I agree to some level that many scenes probably could be done just as well (and with higher res) with 3d acc. it is still a impressive coding achivement, and the scenes are nicely designed.
rulez added on the 2003-04-23 09:23:56 by Sdw Sdw
technically it might be great.
but its hmn not my cup of tea i guess.
great modelling tho. and great music.
its a onetimer for me. still i have to say there is much work behind it and i appreciate that!
added on the 2003-04-23 09:25:02 by jazz jazz
Hopper: Real archs, spheres, cylinders. Not triangles. I think that's some pretty hype shit.
ugly. why the fuck use raytracing when everything could be done in hw with a lot higher resolution and speed? it's easier?
sucks added on the 2003-04-23 10:12:24 by raymon raymon
thom: Which all can be "simulated" with triangles a lot faster and nicer. Sorry to say, but I think using raytracing this way isn't making any sense
Surely might have been faster with 3d-acceleration, but what the heck ? This absolutely rocks.
rulez added on the 2003-04-23 13:16:58 by nufan nufan
hmm.. the other fan demo presented scenes that are typically traced and this ones that are normally rendered with polygons?

doesn't work very well in practice it seems..
added on the 2003-04-23 13:33:28 by 216 216

Raytracing is the future!
rulez added on the 2003-04-23 16:42:59 by Inopia Inopia
"Hopper: Real archs, spheres, cylinders. Not triangles. I think that's some pretty hype shit."

your definition of real conflicts with that of everyone else i'm afraid.
added on the 2003-04-23 17:13:53 by superplek superplek
technically this thing is nice, but for me not visually appealing.
added on the 2003-04-23 18:53:26 by hfr hfr
too short but technically great.
rulez added on the 2003-04-23 19:05:28 by EviL EviL
Hopper: And I can "simulate" girls with jpegs, but that's just pales in comparison to an actual woman.

Oh well. These methods will dominate the future of 3D graphics, not triangles and phong shading and such. I feel sure of this.
Nature suxx series still sucks. :) Well, I go for a piggie, just stating that technologically advanced demo doesn't make alone a good demo.
added on the 2003-04-23 20:43:23 by melw melw
this RT² (RealTime RayTracing ;) showcase is definitely impressive, especially the last scenes with perfectly appropriate music. I think it's hard to find such a light & shadow ambiance in accelerated stuff...

now why oh why do FAN dudes have a grudge against Mother Nature ? :] wasn't She enough kind with them ?
even so She gave us cocoa, apples, malt, silicon and chicks !
rulez added on the 2003-04-24 04:17:26 by Zest Zest
sucks added on the 2003-04-24 10:34:30 by teel teel
Great scenes but it`s slow with RTR and infact boring. A pigface from me.
added on the 2003-04-24 10:38:45 by Wain Wain
thom: Good argument... NOT!
What I mean by "simulating" is, that I *do* use polygons, but it will look the same. It's then is not "real" arch or sphere or whatever, but it looks exactly the same.
And don't tell me now it's got a different feel with polygons ;)
i like it. and hey, its realtime-raytraycing! ;)
rulez added on the 2003-04-24 11:49:06 by sobec sobec
wow !
rulez added on the 2003-04-24 15:21:15 by 0x$$ 0x$$
I am a sucker for rtrt, I mean, let's face it, it is the future. This FAN production is alot better (design-wise) than their previous releases and that's a definate plus.

Still, it could use some nice ideas to be even better. For example, You have this light source moving around in the church, why not show a walking priest with a candle that acts as the light source? It would have a similar lighting effect and it would also work in terms of design. The use of golden objects was a nice idea to show reflections Other than that, the demo is just a rt fly by. Maybe FAN should slow down on their coding and start working on concept design a little (imho of course).

Overall, I think it maybe a little overrated for 3rd place, but it still is a nice show and gets my vote for that :-)
rulez added on the 2003-04-24 15:22:24 by moT moT
Rulez, but i'm still waiting for a FAN demo with some more action (like the scorpion was in n.s.s.). Or a storydemo with this engine would be just great.
rulez added on the 2003-04-24 15:35:02 by zoom zoom
Ok, so it ran at an average 8 fps on my computer, and the music skipped a little. But the image quality is great, the scenes are VERY detailed and the music... my goodness, the music... The parts with the organ music more than made up for the generic-ness of the rest of it.
rulez added on the 2003-04-26 00:14:06 by crusader crusader
perfect texturing, but it's very slow
runs with a P7 16 GHz + GeForce8 + 4096 of RAM ???
added on the 2003-04-26 14:11:10 by sokoban sokoban
rulez added on the 2003-04-28 18:44:03 by diver diver
Not as slow as I expected from the comments. Nice scenes and good music.
rulez added on the 2003-04-28 18:49:47 by dairos dairos
i like it!
rulez added on the 2003-05-03 18:26:48 by NuKem NuKem
awsome piece of SW rendering... i got 30 frames on my P4 2,4Ghz 1024 Mem
rulez added on the 2003-05-11 20:39:13 by bigpimpin bigpimpin
I prefer the other one but i like it too.
rulez added on the 2003-05-11 20:41:02 by skarab skarab
Lucky for me I don't know jack and shit about RT.. I can only wonder why does it have to look like GUAGEHZHZ!
sucks added on the 2003-05-15 17:11:58 by el-bee el-bee
i love it :)
rulez added on the 2003-05-18 02:20:15 by jua jua
rulez added on the 2003-05-19 09:16:14 by gg|rhg gg|rhg
Yea the Scene is boring atleast they gave me something different to look forward to besides the usuall 40 wormholes with crap plastered all over top and some greets
rulez added on the 2003-05-20 00:27:11 by BEEF BEEF
great demo, beside that cheesy church storypart it was really well done.

i just don't get what's up with the title of the demo and if tommy-prodytune.xm belongs to the hidden part that i haven't found yet
added on the 2003-05-20 01:01:09 by dalezr dalezr
too slow and irritating for my 1.5G/Ti4200 even @ 512, composition looks really boring
added on the 2003-06-15 18:57:17 by Zzed Zzed
dalezy: I think it's the tune that plays in the selector screen. You know, with the bouncing circly thingie?
I still wonder why they didn't/couldn't use any GPU power
added on the 2003-06-15 19:45:53 by crusader crusader
it's funny to see that the comments in this thread look strangelly like the reviews from the first 3d accelerated demos. in the begining the people couldn't understand what was impossible to do with software rendering, but after a few years they began to put interrest in 3d acceleration.

i think for realtime raytracing it's the same. it will be our future, all demos will use it in a few years. it's a fact. then when everyone will use it we will all remenber FAN as the pionners of a new age for the scene. that's the way things go.

great work for this demo!

rulez added on the 2003-06-15 20:02:58 by nystep nystep
Great work, nice
but, that wasn't really fun, there's no "life" in this 3d world
rulez added on the 2003-06-16 03:51:09 by Buckethead Buckethead
uncredible realistic rendering
a good music, and very precize and detailled modeling
but it is so slow on my p4 at 1.8G!
pigface because of that and because fly by in religious things are not my cup of tea
I get worse FPS than this with some so-called accelerated demos. The demoscene is all about coding skillz, and this is where the skillz are at. It takes more skill to write your own ray-tracing rendering engine from the ground up and optimize the s* out of it than it does to feed some wimpy triangles to DirectX. So what if the FPS is lower?
rulez added on the 2003-07-29 22:32:47 by s_tec s_tec
i like it!
rulez added on the 2003-08-23 19:47:22 by ripper ripper
Unbelievable. Extremely fast on my XP1700+ considering the amount of computation being done. Not only is the code fast, it's also rather groundbreaking, as I don't remember seeing scenes this complex being raytraced in realtime (in any demo!). Definite thumbs up for the true coding spirit, with very good graphics as well.
rulez added on the 2003-12-15 01:27:47 by uutee uutee
rtrt is surely more fun, but why the hell must we endure such an incredibly dull setting? Realtime raytrace som other scenes instead please, and replace the music with some weird ambient or something instead of oldschool crap with church organs.. How about some sewer tunnels and dirty basements with nasty drumnbass instead?
rulez added on the 2003-12-15 06:37:46 by loaderror loaderror
and the thumb up is for the cool code (I think).
added on the 2003-12-15 06:38:21 by loaderror loaderror
loaderror: I think the church organ scenery and music were very nice and original.

Why should they copy the majority of demos with weird-ass ambient music and fashion scenes? I like design, but if design means copying mainstream bullshit then... DOH.

Or then I just don't watch enough demos to know what the real trends are. Doesn't change the fact that this thing is one of the coolest prods I've seen.
added on the 2003-12-15 11:36:07 by uutee uutee
i like this one very much !
rulez added on the 2004-01-10 12:06:18 by pantaloon pantaloon
slow, boring with ugly artwork. i don't care what rendering-teqnique was used if it looks like shit and runs slow as hell.
sucks added on the 2004-01-10 12:56:17 by kusma kusma
sucks added on the 2004-03-31 01:16:53 by _andre _andre
cheesy yes, slow yes - but a very impressive technical feat, so it sees my thumb up.
rulez added on the 2004-03-31 02:24:25 by jazzman jazzman
It's boring, but codewise it gives me a boner, so thumbs up :) (I do however think that if you're raytracing, you should exploit the fact and leave dull scenes like this for polygon-based engines)
rulez added on the 2004-03-31 14:58:32 by Preacher Preacher
I liked this demo.. great scenes nice colors, though maybe a bit slow both in fps(since it's rtrt) and in the general concept. People who have tried to write a raytracer really appreciate it. Congratulations to FAN!
rulez added on the 2004-05-02 10:28:52 by RandomGr RandomGr
amazingly cool... their raytracings floor me every time, and I really like the archetecture in the church scene.
rulez added on the 2004-05-06 00:20:20 by mausmalone mausmalone
Great work guys. Forgot to vote for this excelent piece of work. If you've ever implemented a simple raytracer yourself you can really appreciate this. And according to the talk a the start of this thread : What do fancy 3D-hardware and raytracers have in common? Per-Pixel-Operations. So stop mumbling Raytracing is old stuff....
But you're right, it's a bit dull here and there ;-)
rulez added on the 2004-05-06 00:32:03 by raer raer
Some scenes look very impressive. I think that this is already some kind of good design in itself.
The music is also rather good.
rulez added on the 2004-05-06 01:01:49 by mjz mjz
Really impressive...
rulez added on the 2005-04-01 23:16:54 by nitro2 nitro2
oh my god. raytracing is the futire. this one is SO cool! i cannot believe, that this one is not in the demoscene tv playlist
rulez added on the 2005-05-10 11:16:51 by ddeml ddeml
rulez added on the 2005-05-10 11:38:40 by zeebr zeebr
rays ;)
rulez added on the 2005-07-08 09:59:30 by las las
rulez added on the 2005-07-08 17:36:08 by bdk bdk
an inspiration for people making realtime raytracing demos
added on the 2005-08-12 00:36:30 by RandomGr RandomGr
Impressive - without the shadow of a doubt!
added on the 2005-08-26 20:57:11 by EarlGrey EarlGrey
Wonderful. It's an evolutionary consequence by FAN.
I wanna see the further releases that will be based on GPGPU.
rulezcdc added on the 2005-10-25 19:36:23 by 301 301
rulez added on the 2005-10-25 20:23:11 by apricot apricot
I love this piece of software.
rulez added on the 2005-11-28 18:57:46 by Cj Cj
rulez added on the 2006-04-03 18:17:42 by seppjo seppjo
rulez added on the 2006-04-03 20:34:25 by p01 p01
took a while to hunt it down, but finally w/ the help of google ftp://ftp.scene.org/pub/parties/2003/breakpoint03/demo/stillsuckingnature_by_fan.zip
rulez added on the 2006-06-12 06:30:05 by xteraco xteraco
xteraco: "took a while"? First look should always be the party archive at scene.org. Anyway, fixed.
and it's still ABSENCE damnit ;P
rulez added on the 2006-06-23 17:46:18 by ltk_tscc ltk_tscc
conceptually as a tech demo this is awesome
rulez added on the 2006-10-14 10:44:14 by Gaia Gaia
Beautifully! Slow! but Beautifully
rulez added on the 2006-11-03 13:02:39 by bitl bitl
rulez added on the 2006-11-04 05:42:28 by wb wb
Although realtime raytracing would be worth a thumb up, this demo does not really show what raytracing can look like. But it's good, though.
added on the 2006-11-04 11:10:09 by hashdash hashdash
bleh :( corrupted display here: p4 2.4ghz ati radeon 9800 pro
hmmm, never voted for this one? hereby then cos this 'sucks' :D
rulez added on the 2006-11-10 21:08:24 by maali maali
Admirable, truly admirable.
rulez added on the 2006-11-10 21:39:19 by lordKelvin lordKelvin
cool code!!
rulez added on the 2007-01-27 22:04:02 by earx earx
somebody call the fire brigade...my CPU is on fire!!! :)) great work! I think it's good to do things on the scene that are a challenge...even if they're not necessary.
rulez added on the 2007-01-27 22:59:42 by button button
rulez added on the 2007-08-12 19:24:33 by Nty Nty
very cool demo.
rulez added on the 2008-01-12 17:18:48 by samurai samurai
Great work!
rulez added on the 2008-03-08 21:08:47 by Zplex Zplex
rulez added on the 2008-08-18 13:54:22 by SiR SiR
SW pwns.
rulez added on the 2008-11-22 02:31:57 by b0ib0t b0ib0t
rulez added on the 2008-12-19 15:06:06 by texel texel
beautifully done!
rulez added on the 2008-12-19 15:15:03 by Cat Cat
i don't get this wizardry vs. satanic lounge part meh heh. gr8 engine anyway.
rulez added on the 2009-02-18 06:31:50 by comankh comankh
I very like this
rulez added on the 2009-08-28 03:19:35 by Chainsaw Chainsaw
Nature = sucks
rulez added on the 2009-10-31 22:25:23 by chromag chromag
rulez added on the 2009-10-31 22:37:03 by gentleman gentleman
little hint for people using actual computers. start prime95 in background to get higher framerates. this demo was never core optimized. it doesn't manage to get actual processors more busy than 30-50%, so the cpu clock speed won't increase in most cases. this hint worked well on my machine. I also infromed TTS about that, but I didn't get any answer. seems he cancelled to code on this ray engine.
added on the 2010-01-11 22:41:30 by seppjo seppjo
rulez added on the 2010-01-19 01:38:10 by Gʀɪʍʍy Gʀɪʍʍy
What is Prime95 and why running it in the background will also make this demo go faster?
added on the 2010-01-19 02:06:06 by Optimus Optimus
where's my thumb?
rulez added on the 2010-01-28 20:31:21 by v3nom v3nom
wtf... this is amazing. beautiful 3d scenes and music, sadly the music doesn't work on win7 (for some strange reason, the mod on the config screen plays correctly, but after the loading screen, nothing is heard anymore...)
rulez added on the 2010-01-28 22:44:51 by Saga Musix Saga Musix
yup, the demo itself doesn't manage to increase the dynamical clockspeed on actual multicores as the processor is not busy enough. prime95 creates multiple threads so that the processor is 100% busy and also increases the clockspeed to max. available > result is: you get higher framerates.
added on the 2010-01-29 14:37:52 by seppjo seppjo
Oh, marvel.
rulez added on the 2010-02-22 18:47:30 by MyO MyO
rulez added on the 2010-02-23 16:12:50 by panic panic
I am sure the code was excellent, but I feel bored when watching it. OK demo then.
added on the 2011-10-31 18:42:36 by jack-3d jack-3d
For the church and the organ
rulez added on the 2011-12-18 15:05:16 by Frequent Frequent
Good job!
rulez added on the 2012-02-04 13:33:58 by closed closed
i have absolutely no idea how this performed on an average pc in 2003, only watched the youtube-capture now.
but i really liked all of the scenes...lot of details, lot of objects, nice use of scattering synced to the guitar.
i dont see why you all simply downvoted this due to being slow on your pc. nowadays you´d watch a (live-)youtube and CDC it! well not, due to raytracing got even more uninteresting with nowadays pcs, but you get what i said!
i´ll rewatch this for sure. i guess i am a FaN-fanboy now aswell.
rulez added on the 2012-12-20 12:10:44 by ɧ4ɾɗվ. ɧ4ɾɗվ.
pretty breathtaking back then
rulez added on the 2013-10-31 02:17:29 by T$ T$
still sucking fan.
sucks added on the 2014-02-04 15:31:56 by kimi kardashian kimi kardashian
Very beautiful demo, but on Windows 7 it goes with no sound. Does anybody have the same problem? And at all, lots of demos have great problems with compatibility, and it is very sad.
rulez added on the 2014-11-12 10:41:44 by Nsimaod Nsimaod
looks very very good and is very very empty. piggie.
I remember seeing this a very long time ago. Of course, RTRT is always nice to see, but people complaining that the subject matter for it was chosen poorly in this case are unfortunately correct. RTRT is supposed to make things look better at the expense of processing power, not worse (and yet still much slower). So watching this after having played the Doom 3 demo presented half a year prior just didn't work too well.
added on the 2017-04-21 23:54:37 by moozooh moozooh
not that interesting really. had to ffwd to get over with it. technically quite nice anyway
added on the 2018-01-27 12:30:11 by waffle waffle
RTX port plz!
added on the 2019-07-13 18:44:55 by wysiwtf wysiwtf
Nice visuals, church scene is great, but somehow I don't like it that much.
added on the 2019-07-13 18:48:17 by vdr vdr
lol rays
rulez added on the 2022-01-10 07:11:14 by provod provod
Bestest MATH :)
rulez added on the 2022-10-01 15:00:45 by moredhel moredhel
rulez added on the 2022-10-01 19:43:54 by TomCatAbaddon TomCatAbaddon

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