pouët.net

for the troll magnitude of this thing, and the music.
Quite enjoyable, ackshually, even if a bit long-ish to my taste.

respect for "making" a demo about it.
no thumb up, because lol, fuck AI

oh fuck off

.

Great work, mrdoob!

i kinda find it ironic that this is probably the best demo that trace has ever made... looks like AI can indeed outdo talent. well prompted!

Scene drama. I thought I'd left that behind in 1994.

Other than that - awesome.

LOL, a demo about it! :]

minimalanimal strikes again!

actually, the best thing that came out of this whole flamewar drama so far. someone made a demo about it :D

why the fuck would you upvote and encourage this slop and behavior, I don't get it

I guess because it’s edgy and there’s nothing more cool than a ~50 year old white dude on the internet roleplaying that it’s still the 90s and that everyone is still in their late teens or early 20s?

Ok the track is fucking sick, but did you get permission for it... ?
THANKFULLY that is not ai.

Depressingly, the demo itself, for what it's trying to communicate, is really good.

Thing is, you didn't design this, you seem retired and grumpy. Also couldn't design something of this level. So thumbs up to claude or whatever?? Gonna be fun getting these in PC demo compos, not only oldschool🙄 It got to a point where u can go jerk off or smth while the whole thing is being made. In fact mrdoob, go jerk off to a robot and fuck off 😇

it's like someone wrote you a hate letter and you decided to just hire someone more apt than you to write a response, I mean, it's low-effort, it could mean "I don't care what you think" but somehow, this could end up showing as not the kind of dig the prompter was looking for.

"Make a demo about it" is only worth something when you go and make a demo about it.

BWAHAHAHAH

I enjoyed this. Props for actually making a non-sucky demo about the drama, and for the excellent bait.

well, flipping is not the right way. I really hate this

this is just a tribute
you gotta believe me
and i wish you were there
just a matter of opinion

Ok, now after the trolling, what will be the future of AI in the demoscene? :)

More trolling AI demos? I mean, I don't even know how to classify it, like there is nothing to tell me, wow this is so masterful coding, or this is so better made than the previous one at this point :)

Maybe we'll just ignore and code our own way

well if this is slop i want more =)

Really nice trolling :)

I long for the good old times when people made fucktros.

King of slop!

Why keep people insisting he made this? He didn’t

as said: it's like paying someone to paint the picture for you

This slops. I mean slaps. Best demo I've seen this year.

I mean, it's no Ziraafh.

Are you guy thumbing up the ripped sountrack?
Maali and I were completely in sync about the legacy of trace

lol, now you're trolling hard thec.
Probably you haven't seen any other demos this year.

If he hadn’t done anything, it wouldn’t be there; so, in principle, he “did” it. Although he did very much less than a normal programmer.

@mrdoob: Thanks for responding to my bbs-comment »Waiting for a demo called „Lol fuck AI“. ;o)«
@uncle-X: Since you responded with »Challenge potentially accepted« I'm looking forward to your demo called „Lol fuck AI“.

en ces temps tumultueux, gardez l'esprit calme et le cœur pur

"Art should not be comforting; for comfort, we have mass entertainment and one another. Art should provoke, disturb, arouse our emotions, expand our sympathies in directions we may not anticipate and may not even wish." -Joyce Carol Oates.

v3nom, damn, busted :)

AI fuckin' sucks!!

posting in epic thread!

rules, because of reasons!

Ah, the good old days, when ASM coders would proclaim that compilers were naught but tools for the indolent. Some things, it seems, never change.

And a hearty tip of the hat to mr.doob, who maketh the internet a better place and rendereth our lives a more worthwhile endeavour. The internet would be a far poorer realm without thee. Heed not the mierders, and carry on thy splendid work!

I would that each scene were granted but half a second more, that one might read the sheer abundance of utterly bonkers information crammed therein. Verily, the AI debate hath grown even more dreadful than the ancient Mac vs. Windows feud.

Nice prod, love the message!

The demoscene has always been about the freedom to do whatever the hell you want, and fuck anyone who doesn't like it. :)

like writing stupid statements like that!

what kind of scene parallel world are you talking about? :P

Not the kind of stuff I want to see.

I find it odd how it both looks really generic and uninteresting, yet also looks better done than most demos from another standpoint. It's like a very nicely packaged empty shell.

at the risk of taking a maali flamepost seriously, i think this prod is obviously shit and trace/mrdoob's old demoscene work is miles better. there's no soul here, no nothing, just... stuff with stuff.

if you can't tell this shit apart from something a somewhat skilled and tasteful human democoder would make then the problem is you, not AI. if this is what we can expect from vibecoded demos then there's nothing to worry about and all this ruckus is pointless. which, i guess, was mrdoob's point all along.

you sure about that bruv?

well at least it looked finished for once

no, i'm totally guessing. but there's two options:

1. mrdoob has AI psychosis and thinks this is good

2. mrdoob is tired of pouet'ers getting worked up about AI, and want to show what AI slop demos actually look like, ie how shit they are and how we should all stop getting so worked up over nothing.

my bet is on 2, but he's doing that Spanish "let the art speak for itself" thing so all i can do is guess.

I think you're too good for this world, I miss you a little fam…

I prompted this reply

dont feed the trolls ... maybe its time for a no a.i. pouet fork si i dont waste my time

Honestly the best part of the prod were all of the pouet pfps, idk why something about the pixelated graphics being mapped to 3d objects in high definition is really appealing to me. Part of it probably is the same part that likes this, and from the actual good design of the pouet pfps I never realized how well they use color!!

As for the actual demo, I did not like it, just way too bright way too flashy without much good design and just felt like a poor cope, which is probably the goal. I really liked that one of my comments showed up, and that it's me making fun of a prod for using grok? Like you didn't even want to commit hard enough to the bit to use grok, you used argon, not nazi enough 0/10.

https://youtu.be/jIlUpXBrvnA?t=114 oops I lost internet while writing that comment, I meant to link that

(also to be clear about my comment, I didn't even like how they moved, I just liked the basic existence of cubes with 16x16 textures on them, that's how worthless the demo is that that's my favorite part)

So how do I tell this is actually prompted? It might be a double trolling attempt :)

i wonder how many more threads i need to residue and close and debate attempts i need to refuse in order to be featured in hommages like this

Obviously effort went into this, and it is not "vibecoded". I just wish the effort had gone to something more useful. I guess I am saying that I think the human went more wrong than the AI here, since my problems with this are more on the concept :-)
Just make beautiful stuff people. Whatever your definition of that.

@havoc I think I saw your name in there..

:(

This goes fucking hard: things evolve, time moves on and things that were once difficult become easy, art becomes commodity. Things will splinter and communities will change, whatever it is you enjoy, find it!

mr. poops opus magnum

Well, as this is released as an "official" Demo with some fuckings to certain persons that value handmade content over AI content.

No Problems to make stuff like this for internal usage etc. but releasing AI as an official demo, nah... SLOP IT Please

Curious statistic that late night voters were much more favorable to this than the morning people

mrdoob, I lost all respect I had for years for you since you decided to release this demo. Please do better.

(I don't care if this demo was vibecoded, but things like this is why I don't want to contribute to the demoscene anymore)

every red sector demo maker output is better than this. quite a archievement!

I don't understand the psychology of all the AI pushers, they act the same trolly way. They say the same things. It might be AI psychosis. I am glad that the demoscene is a place of solace. I have been a bit depressed as out of bordom I sometimes scroll twitter. And I see a lot of accounts saying coding is over, if you code by hand you are unprofessional. I was very pissed with Tim Sweeney and I am still pissed and other people, more important and less important, and the thing is not that they use it, but they make claims like doing things 100% vibe coded and if you even read the code output it's unproductive. And everybody is signalling the same things. In the same way people used to say "Premature optimizing is the root of all evil" and it was a cliche things developers said, now the central mantra of the "professional developer" is "If you code by hand it's unproductive, unprofesional, and you should fully vibe code and even not read the output" and I am like what's going on? But everybody throws the same arguments like they are zombies, something about vibe coding is the next evolution in programming and why would you still want to use punched cards.

Maybe I am being trolled or maybe it's a mass psychosis where everyone is virtue signalling the same things. But I was at some nights depressed and couldn't sleep and seeing vibe coded projects even in retro communities I was questioning why am I even coding for a hobby? Like I was questioning to first get out of social media, then stop doing anything and get out of my house and fijnd a new hobby outside of technology. I do have to finish something demoscene related very soon, but it put me in this depression mode and didn't slept. It's not even AI but people showing their true colors in the tech industry.

LOL!:D

@Optimus

I can follow you mostly. Well, blaming AI in general might miss the aim. I see this more from a philosophical Level.

What is art, if we miss complete the process of crafting, designing or doing things on our own, its not only code. Graphics, Music (Suno Bullshit) everything else. What are we, wenn we leave out the act of crafting, designing completely.

An example. We have in november the X-MAS Meeting as usual. Our coder had no time and i used ai to create a web invitro and added my own track (not ai generated) I would never "release" this on pouet, scene.org or put this into a competition where it not belongs and i feel general not much motivation, to put it somewhere else as in on FB etc and WhatsApp to invite people.

The point is, that some craftmanship is necessary to feel that something was done on my own.

Those AI Slop Guys here making jokes about the way, most of us want to be a part of the creating process is disgusting. Demoscene was always a open field of experiments and various arts. I even would accept it as a part of the scene but there is a problem. 1000 people creating AI Slop Art, attending at the end a demo party and the real artists will vanish.

AI might have a place to show art but it could only be a ranged, limited part in our demoscene and not a replacement where nothing counts anymore what human beeings do on their on, build, move together !

sorry if my english is not the yellow of the egg ;)

The demoscene has always evolved alongside technology, adapting to major shifts — from Assembly to C, from 2D to 3D, and from Flash to WebGL. Each new tool has changed the way we create, opening up possibilities that once seemed out of reach.

AI is another step in that evolution. It can accelerate development, help explore complex ideas, and enable solo developers to experiment with concepts that might otherwise require an unrealistic amount of time or resources.

Of course, that doesn't mean AI is beyond criticism. Questions about originality, authorship, transparency, and the role of human creativity are legitimate and deserve thoughtful discussion.

But I believe we should judge a demo by its creativity, technical achievement, and the experience it delivers — not solely by the tools used to create it. How something is made matters, but it shouldn't automatically determine its value.

I'm glad we're debating AI. Let's make it a constructive debate, one that challenges assumptions and encourages responsible use, rather than rejecting the technology outright.

The demoscene has always been about pushing boundaries and exploring what's possible. If we stop embracing new ideas simply because they change the way we work, we risk losing the very spirit that made the scene what it is.

Otherwise, we might as well go back to living in caves!

Yay more sockpuppet accounts. And while I appreciate a good fucktro, this would be crap even if it wasn't also slop

A blank account defending a slopped prod with llm extruded text. How fitting.

@RedMer4cury:

We can't have a constructive debate, because we've been trying to have it for a few years now, and every so often, someone comes (like you) and repeats tired and longtime debunked tropes out of their "common sense" disregarding everything that came prior.

All you wrote is nonsense.

the new vibecoded epic launcher in indeed 10 times faster than the old shitty client they had

Are you kidding. If we accept unlimited AI Slop, we will lose the spirit. Its NOT creative ART ! its Prompting ART maybe. But really, i love to see content, people have done with a process called creative creation not a prompt. Creating fucking fake accounts won´t make the statement not better !

Dude you’re arguing with an llm…

@BoyC: well, it's mrdoob of course

Damn, this is the 2nd time, i did here... an ai is defending itself whilst i discuss.... well, f**k

I was depressed many days ago about those "I mashed up Minecraft in Elden Ring" and "the revolution is coming, every game of your dreams with every game" and didn't even bother checking how they are done. Today I learned the deception, some kind of bridging of two games run at the same time and mashing up layers of front character to background in the second game. For short clips and clout. But it gave me the wrong impression, even if I am not in the modding scene, the influx of all these examples make me think AI is so good that you can one-shoot reverse engineer a modern game and inject code in the other game in a night of tokens spent. But it's not exactly like that and not as useful. That calmed me down a bit.

There is a lot of deception, even with these "but I one-shot things". At a moment I was in the bargain-accept stage, but more like "Ok but what's the point, I am just not gonna use it even if it becomes so good". But now I see the deception again, I am just not gonna give a fuck.

It’s the emdashes man!! Dead giveaway. Also the rule of three for everything.

One thing this prod shows is that we are all a bunch of bitches for drama hahaha

No idea how much "direction" actually went into this but I'm excited how you can deliberately create something that's so awesome, yet make everyone hate it.

Well, he stole the music. (Also, haven’t watched it, never will)

Thumb for wrapping houndreds of pouet drama posts and bitching into an actually enjoyable format and also sparking a revival of the demoscene fuckings era :D

What gopher said.

And in the end, for this kind of prods, the typical organizational format of:

art direction + coding (demo code + tools) + making graphics + composing

just became:

art direction (without feedback from the missing others)

-> which can filter the enjoyable stuff from the boring stuff. But that's it.

This is the best prod you ever created. By far. And yet, it's shit.

I like it.
Nothing wrong with stirring up things once in a while.
At least it was sending out love instead of fckings :-)

glöp

I'd like to give it at least a piggie, in protest of all the FU's and double racist comments like but that will be sympathy for the "prompter".

But as i think AI will kill the demoscene if it is allowed to, like all the nice niche underground things in history when a big mover was let in did, and this time i think it is vastly bigger, i'll give a thumb down.

No it won't. There are too many people in the scene that love making art with their own hands. AI will be there every now and then, but it cannot take over the whole demoscene.

Well, a bunch of loud mouth AI idiots can definitely suck the fun out of a place.

Welp, at least it's self aware lol, programing and mathematics in general are now fucked up

the worst part is its getting more attention than any other ... man, i can NOT believe i didnt just get suckered into reacting to a.i.-infected sh-t but i actually gave my very first thumbs down to it ...

i need to sue someone for mental damage because this thing took my virginity ...

im still in favour of splitting it up ... even if its on the same sites ... sadly im not on the board here , give them a sandbox for toddling and let montmartre exclusive to the appreciators and connoisseurs of the fine arts

and now i reacted twice to it ... maybe i should really diss this place for a while, i fear it might leave spores in my brain

Well, then you can't let it "a bit in" but everything has to be non-AI. Too many won't listen and staying in the top means going at least somewhat AI. Tools to spot AI will compete with AI and guess who wins.

If there are morally high ground scene people then of course a strange but cool niche can survive, but who are they? Can there be a serpent amongst them to again bring chaos (not talking about me, i am totally against AI in demoscene use)

No hagáis caso a los críticos ciegos de envidia!, enhorabuena y gracias por esta gran obra de arte DEMOSCENER que en poco tiempo será reconocida como una producción de vanguardia. Y bravo por el guiño amiguero. Un abrazo desde Posadas vuestra tierra AMIGA.

Again what ai datacenters do is that they're placed in minority low income areas in the American south and pollute the air and noise, not to mention all of the underpaid indians, africans(as in lives in africa), and venezuelans who actually did all the work in training the models, some of which had to look at extremely awful images to make sure to insulate the wittle hwite people from the consequences of their actions because that might decrease our user retention!!

There's a reason why people are so up in arms about this stuff, why this is so different than "mp3 music in demos" or "not using assembly" and why it's considered "nazi technology". You can solve some problems by using a local model, but these people don't even want to do that. Also, if this was truly about "people hating new technology not wanting to moving forward", why is it all the 50 year olds who love it and use it while most of the "hate" comes from folks far younger?

I find it weird that some of y’all are talking about it as if it was some future scenario we aren’t already dealing with. Compo and Party Orgas such as myself and my colleagues have zero desire to invest weeks and months putting human work into making demoparties happen just to facilitate entries such as this one. Slop isn’t happening at compos I run, and I know it’s not happening at my friend’s Compos either.

If you really care about the scene being focussed on human achievement, support parties and compos that are trying their best to keep the spirit alive.

@Jena nonsense racist gobbledygook. I am aware of the energy usage of AI, and of course it is too much, in fact many centers are being built here in Finland, which could result power cuts for normal people in the middle of winter, which can be up to -50C in theory.

However, if you want to move forward in tech, in order to make an omelette you have to break few eggs, going downwards in tech is not anymore possible. Willingly, at lleast.

fuck ai. Go post your slop somewhere else

I'm tired. It took a lot out of me to convince myself that I belonged in this community. And I don't want to go through all of that again, not even because of AI.

I know my skills aren't particularly impressive compared to many of yours, but it took me years to believe that I, too, could create something meaningful in the demoscene.

But I can't, and don't want to, compete with AI anymore.

I'm not against AI, and I don't want to criticize this demo just because it was made using AI. I'm simply exhausted, and this no longer feels like the demoscene I want to be part of.

I'm not angry at anyone, not even you, mr.doob. I respect you. It's just that this might have been the final push that made me decide to walk away from it all.

Life is beautiful, and there are plenty of other problems worth solving.

Netro don’t give up just because a couple of tech-boy ai boosters want to fill the emptiness inside them by spewing their slop around; your creations, as long as they come from you, are infinitely more meaningful and valuable than anything the slop-bros could ever come up with.

Take another thumb down 👎
It makes me angry that AI tech bros just are so oblivious about all the damage they cause with their shitty toys. (see the comment above) Go away, post your shit on twitter where it belongs. Leave our community alone

I hope no one thinks as me as pro tech bro, i have never used AI even at work (not using keeps your brain alive).

I just said what is invenitable. Either demoscene will get merged with AI, which will get better and better of course, or it will stay a small niche with heroic standards who will never cheat. I do personally like the no cheating thing.

Netro: Same boat, honestly. I had tried returning to art only to quit again months later, and I have no intentions to create anymore.

If anything, this prod pretty much made me lose my love for demoscene.

Serp: the scene was always a "small niche with heroic standards". And I see nothing wrong with that. In fact, that's what makes the scene worthwhile.

As of this comment, this prod has 52 votes (21 up, 16 piggy, 25 down), while the top two entries at Deadline have 65 and 42 votes.

If a low effort troll sloptro is getting more attention than entries from a demoparty with 300 visitors, I argue that AI is not the biggest problem.

Moreover, it also sends a signal that you care more about AI prods than the traditional prods some of you are so vocally saying you support.

@Zavie: Yeah. Would be much better if no one comments on AI prods here, just ignore them. But the hate seems to go deep.

I agree with this, but it's not so much an issue with me as I already often write lengthy comments for prods I actually like! :D I think it's because this is a "meta-prod" why it gets so much engagement, "Razor1911" and "Every Time I Go on Pouet" are good examples, the scene yearns for more meta-content and not enough people are providing it. I desperately want to fill in the void, but not yet, I want to actually put in effort, or you know, make it, so that'll take some time.

A well deserved Thumbs down. <3
But Thumbs up for the Idea and xplsv <3

No sir, I don't like it.

I think it is good and valuable to have prods and parties and demosceners that are anti-AI. (I do not mean that in a derogatory way, let me know if you have better terms)

I am pro-AI. I think the demoscene should also embrace AI as a tool.

Using AI well is also a craft. Or - an extension of our crafts.
Using AI well still requires a lot of human effort to make good stuff.

There can be just as much craft and human effort involved, therefore I do not believe the demoscene essence is lost. I want to embrace better tools.

Now, you can call me names and tell me to leave your community alone all you want, but I love and care for the demoscene just as much as you do, and have been participating just as much as you.

We simply disagree on whether we should embrace AI.

I say this because I think the orthodoxy enforcement is a little strong in this thread. We agree that disagreeing about this is a valid viewpoint to have, right?

To Zavies point: It seems like this is a discussion we need to have, and this seems as good a place as any.

yeah, no, it's as simple as paying for an api key and writing 30 lines of python and a markdown file with what you want

sorry, but I don't buy into this "prompting is a craft" shit. anyone with a vision can type out words that describe this vision, absolutely not necessary to learn or practice anything to do that. And for that 30 lines of python, it's the easiest language on the planet, 50% of you techbro suckers prompt the slop for your agent loop anyways, no craft there neither, sorry

Not. It’s because it’s AI slop, and AI is like a directly opposite concept to that of the demoscene. People react, and then cretins react in defense, no matter how objectively crap the product is. The number of reactions has nothing to do with “meta”. Look at TM2, Skywards, Fable 64.

Just to clarify. I said using AI well.

Yes, you can make slop easily. So what? Judge it harshly.

LITERALLY!!!!! if we lived in a world that only cared abt ideas rather than execution, then the nobel prize for literature every year would go to sum random guy whos never written in their life just bc they had a good idea for a novel
if u enter an art competition and just present a piece of art u commissioned from some random guy on twitter. well ur not gonna win!!! sure maybe you had an awesome idea for a piece of art but you didnt make anything ????
i genuinely cant tell of techbros choose to ignore this argument bc they cant counter it, or they genuinely cant comprehend what it means

Revival said:


Mrdoob said:

Slightly adapted argument (since effort is at its.core):



So we can finally get rid of photo compos at Demoparties. Thanks.
Good photos take preparation and time, but since it is too easy to enter slop lets remove it.

I know I've been particular mean to trace and fthr of TPOLM in the past months and in retrospective, with trace's demo actually pointing at it, regurgitating my comments back at me, loud and clear, that's probably the message he wanted to convey.
I did not like what I saw and it took a while to actually hit me (I'm slow, remember), it reflected my own hatred and this is haunting me now.

I'll be taking notes for the next time I need to avoid getting into arguments (still learning).

But.

If you had made this demo yourself entirely, by using the music that a musician that support you would have made for this cause, then it would have been a very powerful one, you'd have ranked high at a party, you'd have won the fight clean and honestly, that would have had such an impact.

So,
You – still –  asked your butler to go punch the mean kids for you.
Or, you paid a design agency to help you fight your fight.
And maybe you asked beforehand to a PR agency how to win the fight.

You have power and wealth, you used it.

I'll now go and shut up for a while, I'll take a little lie down, because I don't have wealth, power nor influence.

This makes me sad. Comments on this 'prod' look like a battlefield. Production itself is so full of hatred. I hope all this crap about AI, slop, clean room copy will end soon.

@mrdoob Hi Trace,

Not judging whether this prod is good or bad.

When I asked in the fix-me thread how to make the scene healthier, you answered constructively and talked about how hard it is to keep a positive culture in the three.js communities you moderate. So, honest question: does this prod help with that, or does it just add fuel to the fire?

Arguing hard has always been part of the scene. Insulting people directly is something else, and yes, some people crossed that line with you and other sceners these past months. But someone with your reach and history sets the tone whether you like it or not, and answering in kind just makes it everyone's fight. Sometimes being the adult in the room means not throwing the next punch, even when you'd be entitled to. It feels worse than ever lately. After months of reading these threads, I understand better why someone who gave so much and loved the scene like Gargaj burned out and left.

On the "proving a point" part: making a half-baked prod in 3 hours is easy now. Hard problems still aren't. Look at iq's Elevated-in-the-browser thread. It's been open for weeks with lots of skilled people in it, and a 1:1 port still sits around 4.6-4.9KB, not 4096. The browser sandbox is brutally strict for sizecoding, so you have to get really creative. Another example: why not try a real 64KB browser port of Tokyo, that wonderful demo of yours? IMHO that would be an order of magnitude harder, and no agent or a few hours of vibecoding would get you there, because the problem itself is inherently complex. Every asset has to become procedural code, the synth has to be rebuilt, the browser gives you no Crinkler-style packer so you fight the compression and bootstrap tricks yourself, and every byte you save in one place changes the trade-offs everywhere else. It's thousands of small decisions, measuring, failing and trying again, guided by taste and experience. That's pushing limits like in the old days. (For the record, and as an experiment, porting this prod fully to native without electron whatsoever took me about an hour... But, what's the value in this? That's not pushing limits at all.)

Tools change, the challenge doesn't. Transpiling and decompiling are basically solved problems now, so the merit is in making something new. If you port a 64k, keep it at 64KB on the target platform. PC, Amiga, browser, PICO-8, it doesn't matter: rules are rules. (I'm biased: 64ks are my favourite by far, and I've been chasing one I'm happy with for decades...) Plenty of bloated demos in pouet that could fit in 64KB. But... Is anyone using all this new tech to prove that?

And I'm not saying this from a pedestal. When the browser ports thread started I thought it was cool idea and didn't think much about the implications. At one point I made a Windows port of Starstruck, because I love that demo forever so I wanted to learn its tricks, and wanted to prove that a hard challenge like that was doable with a perfect 1:1 port. Then I realised the original authors might not be OK with it, so I took it down and deleted the link. I hadn't considered that, and honestly it was a bit selfish, just chasing the satisfaction of learning and solving hard problems for my own sake. I still have lots of ports I've made for learning, but I keep them to myself, and if I ever release any, it will be with the original authors' endorsement.

On a personal note: I've known you and the Spanish scene since way back, and you were a big part of it 🙂 I'd love to see those retired guys releasing again. Maybe new tools can help, if they bring people together instead of splitting us further. And personally I'd love to see new tech used for real challenges that help society.

So I'd genuinely like to hear it from you: what was the intention behind this prod? A mirror to make people reflect on how they've been behaving? A joke that got out of hand? Just a way of saying "I don't care what you think"? Or maybe a way to let out frustration, after starting things like the browser ports thread in good faith and getting so much hate back for it? If it's that last one, I'd honestly understand it, and I think a lot of people here would too. I'm asking honestly, because I'd rather hear it from you than guess like half the thread is doing. And the question that matters more to me: does this make the scene more open and bring people together, or does it just do what so much of the world is doing right now, dividing people and feeding more hate?

Not lecturing, we're all grown ups. Just a bit of reflection on ego and on the impact of what we make on others. Engineering should be about solving real problems, not making society worse.

Have a nice day.

PS: English isn't my first language, so an LLM helped tidy this up. Of course, the ideas are mine.

you spent more time on that text than untraceable did on the demo

gopher: I don't think that "something is a craft" and "there's a scene compo for it" are really equivalent. I believe your derivation is misleading and not applicable :) but fwiw, I don't care if photo compos or even AI compos exist.

I'm opposing the claim that AI prompting is a craft. It's not, very much like chatting on a dating app is not a craft. It's not above my minimum threshold of engineering amount to be comfortable calling it a craft.