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Still Snacking by Batman Group & Capsule
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added on the 2025-07-24 10:34:12 by Rhino/BG  |
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comments
A quick response to those who challenged the Joker :)
added on the 2025-07-24 11:22:33 by Rhino/BG
Nice one! Are we allowing disabling some/all audio dma now though? This was a major sticking point on my solutions, and I'm sure you know why.
That question is best answered with another question: What is the widest 4x4 RGB rotozoom?
It zooms AND rotates, so that's a thumbs up
nice
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That question is best answered with another question: What is the widest 4x4 RGB rotozoom?
Probably one in a hidden part that you'll reveal later :-)
Guess this is some kind of record
Has anyone noticed what the joker is holding in his hands? Haha.
I wonder why it's repeating the same movement over and over...
No. ;)
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Are we allowing disabling some/all audio dma now though?
No. ;)
Never get tired of the records :)
The joker‘s always smiling.
"We regret the use of AI in the texture"
not good enough. miss me with that shit.
not good enough. miss me with that shit.
I like it a lot!
The snacking continues!
Thumb for the code, but im disappointed in the AI texture.
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I wonder why it's repeating the same movement over and over...
Well, I think there are several reasons why I did it this way:
1. This is done in a few days without worrying about small details.
2. At such a low resolution, constant rotation on a fixed axis make the movement smoother than if you try to make complex movements involving translations, etc...
3. It is a classic trick to speed up a little more the rotozoom by precalculating the X and Y offsets of each frame (64 X offsets + 68 Y offsets). It's a brief pre-calculation of about 100kb of data that happens at the beginning, during the fraction of a second with the colour bars. It is true that I could have made it 4 times bigger to be less repetitive, as there is enough free memory for it, but the important thing is that it allows me to add about one of the 11 rows by which this rotozoom outperforms yours. (The other 10 extra rows are due to an old Amiga hardware trick that even Photon knows about. Feel free to ask if you can't find it after examining the code :)
Bravo
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Thumb for the code, but im disappointed in the AI texture.
The AI texture doesn't look right (it looks simpler) and I didn't like the music much, neither. But if it breaks another rotozoom record, that's fine with me!
nice
Grok? Oh come on!
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Has anyone noticed what the joker is holding in his hands? Haha.
Of course...made me titter...screenshot alone is worth a thumb!
Noticed - and maybe I am wrong - that the image/texels become a
bit fringy during the zooming. That's not meant as negative
criticism, just an observation that made me currious (maybe a side
effect of the underlying tickery?).
Music by Estrayk is excellent as usual!
As for the AI-aid with the image: Well, in this case I would say: "The
end justifies the means".
Thanks a lot for the upcheering release and the delicious
continuation of the snack series :-)
Nice
Rulez, period.
For the texture
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I didn't like the music
Me neither, but even though it may not seem like it, it only has two channels and there are no pattern-effects. I don't know why Rhino asked me to make the music like that. Ask him.
I don't have any problems with the music and i like the picture, And breaking records are always cool. So this one rulez!
Well if the picture is made with AI it could be better ofcourse (like pixeled by a scener instead) but i like the idea to the picture anyway.
Excellent prod! Great music and a new record set. We'll see where this trend of 4x4 rotozooms takes us.
Ace!
Nice!
Very nice!
Haven't had time to peek at this yet, but I'm excited to see the tricks you use.
Haven't had time to peek at this yet, but I'm excited to see the tricks you use.
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Me neither, but even though it may not seem like it, it only has two channels and there are no pattern-effects. I don't know why Rhino asked me to make the music like that. Ask him.
Because the audio DMA interferes with cycle-exact CPU code if you don't place your instructions properly.
Instead of meeting that challenge and beating previous records, Rhino decided to tackle a different, easier problem.
Hannibal still in the lead. :)
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Hannibal still in the lead. :)
Hehe, good try but I'm sorry, it's not Blueberry who decides who is in the lead, but the number of columns in the rotozoom. :)
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Instead of meeting that challenge and beating previous records, Rhino decided to tackle a different, easier problem.
XD It is funny, I hope you're joking and not taking your defeats so badly bc you are talking about yourself here: Instead of meeting the original copperchunky challenge and beating previous records, you decided to tackle a different, easier problem (as the speed and number of records after yours have shown) making your code incompatible :)
Anyway, In demoscene you don't win records with words, if you can do it with more columns at full dma music, just show it in a demo :D
Of course. ;)
I mainly care about breaking assumptions in ways that inspire other people to explore new areas, as has happened successfully twice now.
I don't hope this entry into the fight inspires people to make demos without sound. But there are plenty of opportunities for making sound without DMA. That would be a fresh take. :)
I mainly care about breaking assumptions in ways that inspire other people to explore new areas, as has happened successfully twice now.
I don't hope this entry into the fight inspires people to make demos without sound. But there are plenty of opportunities for making sound without DMA. That would be a fresh take. :)
Come on, you oldies. I do have some popcorns ready.
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I mainly care about breaking assumptions in ways that inspire other people to explore new areas, as has happened successfully twice now.
I don't hope this entry into the fight inspires people to make demos without sound.
Ok, you keep breaking the assumption that the code should be compatible to inspire people to do incompatible things, or keep breaking the assumption that we should take these challenges with sportsmanship to inspire people to kick like children in defeat, while I just break records :)
Nice. :)
Theisintro sucks!
The texture is made with AI, the music uses only two channels with no effects whatsoever. This intro seems more like an excuse to come here and brag about a 'record' like a spoiled teenager.
Listen Rhino: we’ve already passed that age, you should evolve personally because you’re really ridiculous.
Yes, Hannibal still in the lead for me. You're just a spoiled brat playing dirty.
The texture is made with AI, the music uses only two channels with no effects whatsoever. This intro seems more like an excuse to come here and brag about a 'record' like a spoiled teenager.
Listen Rhino: we’ve already passed that age, you should evolve personally because you’re really ridiculous.
Yes, Hannibal still in the lead for me. You're just a spoiled brat playing dirty.
Honestly, feels a little desperate using AI image creation to get your result out. Records are great and all but maybe take a step back and add a little polish and presentation.
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Theisintro sucks!
The texture is made with AI, the music uses only two channels with no effects whatsoever. This intro seems more like an excuse to come here and brag about a 'record' like a spoiled teenager.
Listen Rhino: we’ve already passed that age, you should evolve personally because you’re really ridiculous.
Yes, Hannibal still in the lead for me. You're just a spoiled brat playing dirty.
xD
Rhino, más que Joker lo que estás demostrando es que eres un payaso... y además muy necesitado de atención.Tus respuestas dan un poco de pena.
Lo que no entiendo es como estrayk que es un tío serio y respetado se dejó liar para esta basura.
Lo que no entiendo es como estrayk que es un tío serio y respetado se dejó liar para esta basura.
Que confusion tio, Joker es el payaso en el universo de Batman, no Rhino.
I'm honestly not familiar with the "record" and technical aspects of this intro, so I'm not going to comment on that.
What vexes me is the use of AI, and basically limiting Estrayk to 2 channels. I know Estrayk can do a lot better but according to their comment on this very page, it seems like he was severely limited.
The resulting "intro" feels kind of... boring.
AI usage + boring + limiting your musician to use only 2 channels and no effects on the Amiga = thumb down from me.
It's honestly a shame because Batman Group has a LOT of awesome entries for the miggy...
What vexes me is the use of AI, and basically limiting Estrayk to 2 channels. I know Estrayk can do a lot better but according to their comment on this very page, it seems like he was severely limited.
The resulting "intro" feels kind of... boring.
AI usage + boring + limiting your musician to use only 2 channels and no effects on the Amiga = thumb down from me.
It's honestly a shame because Batman Group has a LOT of awesome entries for the miggy...
Instead of using AI (which is not a bad option at all, even if I would have preferred some graphics by Mac/BG) I wonder if, in the next one, Rhino will not make up as The Joker and a selfie will be done to use it as a texture.
What objection will the haters on duty put to it? :]
By the way, kudos for taking Estrayk out of his comfort zone! It is necessary to have a lot of experience as a composer and be a Protracker master to do something that sounds so good within such draconian limitations. Although perhaps, as Blueberry suggests, reducing the number of channels has been the least imaginative option. Maybe a special music routine (without relying on DMA) should be made for this such optimized type of effects?
What objection will the haters on duty put to it? :]
By the way, kudos for taking Estrayk out of his comfort zone! It is necessary to have a lot of experience as a composer and be a Protracker master to do something that sounds so good within such draconian limitations. Although perhaps, as Blueberry suggests, reducing the number of channels has been the least imaginative option. Maybe a special music routine (without relying on DMA) should be made for this such optimized type of effects?
Congratz for another great record-breaker production, Rhino. Nice music even with the 2 channels limit, tito Estrayk, well done.
Some of us are really enjoying this series of challenges. Thank you to all the participants for making it possible.
Some of us are really enjoying this series of challenges. Thank you to all the participants for making it possible.
What Hoffman said.
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Instead of using AI (which is not a bad option at all, even if I would have preferred some graphics by Mac/BG) I wonder if, in the next one, Rhino will not make up as The Joker and a selfie will be done to use it as a texture.
Hehe good idea, I'll write it down for next time.
Criticisms about the use of AI, artistic criteria, etc... are welcome, of course. But that was not what was important for us in this prod. In the readme we make it clear: "...the only important thing here is to be the first breaking records.". Context is always important because if you don't know it, you can evaluate a 64-byte intro as if it were a regular demo.
Hannibal also explains the context in the comments of And One Up The Sleeve2: "I wanted to get this out there as soon as it was ready, as I was sure multiple people were inspired by Blueberry's work and trying to beat it - and Gigabates' post confirmed my suspicion."
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By the way, kudos for taking Estrayk out of his comfort zone!
I just asked Estrayk if he was able to make a good sounding music with only 2 channels, even if the mod size reaches 250kb or more, and he said yes, the rest is history... If his answer had been different, maybe I would have explored other alternatives, or not. :)
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Congratz for another great record-breaker production, Rhino. Nice music even with the 2 channels limit, tito Estrayk, well done.
Some of us are really enjoying this series of challenges. Thank you to all the participants for making it possible.
Thanks!
I like the technical challenges not only because of the competition between coders to see who can beat them first, but also because it is how we all get to know where the limits of the platforms are.
If 9 years ago someone would have asked: how many chunky 4x4 RGB columns can the Amiga OCS hardware do? The answer would have been 50. Today we are going for 85...
I don’t see what is controversial about turning off a couple of audio channels to get a wider screen. In fact one channel is enough. Just increase the volume on your stereo and press in the mono button.
@rloaderro he disables *all* audio for the main record of 85 columns, which would be a step too far for me.
Isn't it just a nice challenge to do a 2 channels mod? And the AI texture; this is not a gfx compo + they're being transparent.
just be glad that Joker doesn't look like Mechahitler
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@rloaderro he disables *all* audio for the main record of 85 columns, which would be a step too far for me.
I'm curious what "one step too far for me" means. Because in my implementation that part has no music means that the Amiga OCS hardware can't do 4x4 chunky rgb at 85 columns?
If someone can do it at 85 columns and 4 dma music channels he just has to demonstrate it in a demo. And in that case he will only have equalled the column record, regardless of adding 4 channels dma music, copper bars on the sides or a glenz vector on top. The 85 columns are only beaten by another one with 86 or more columns. Honestly, I never thought I would have to be forced to explain the obvious here.
But It's funny how all the issues that I didn't give any importance to during development (AI, music, etc...), seem to be the only concerns of many people here and, with a few honourable exceptions, nobody seems to care about the technique behind reaching 4352 blocks or 85 columns. It would seem that if you disconnect the 4 sound dma channels, an 85 columns rotozoom automatically appears :)
In my opinion, this is the end of the road in this challenge , hence the final message ‘game over’, so I wanted to close this quickly here and return to Vespertino on Amstrad CPC. If anyone thinks differently I look forward to seeing it in a demo and, in that case, my response would have to wait until Vespertino is finished.
Hey Amiga, could we tone it down with the Gen AI yet? If the record matter that much, go on wanted.scene.org. Like honestly just go on there and prepare a backlog of images every time you break this so called record you have one ready, as it seems to be a repeated issue..
I wanted to watch this, but I don't really have the time. I do want the glöp though.
Still Pushing optimisation = great
I’ve always seen the demoscene as a rare synthesis, where raw machine code meets raw emotion, and silicon becomes a canvas for both logic and soul. It’s the perfect communion of technology and art, and that’s exactly what makes it so compelling.
That’s how I’ve defended it against those who just see it as a bunch of teenagers with huge egos and zero self-esteem.
But I seriously doubt that’s always the case, and this production is a shining example why — especially considering the author’s, let’s say, charming and defensive responses.
-- Flat music, barely two channels.
-- AI-generated texture.
-- Repetitive and dull overall.
Clearly, artistic merit took a day off here.
Maybe a record was broken — if so, here’s my 50 cents.
But my thumb’s pointing down
That’s how I’ve defended it against those who just see it as a bunch of teenagers with huge egos and zero self-esteem.
But I seriously doubt that’s always the case, and this production is a shining example why — especially considering the author’s, let’s say, charming and defensive responses.
-- Flat music, barely two channels.
-- AI-generated texture.
-- Repetitive and dull overall.
Clearly, artistic merit took a day off here.
Maybe a record was broken — if so, here’s my 50 cents.
But my thumb’s pointing down
Breaking records is the backbone of the demoscene, my thumb is pointing in the same direction as my dick right now, and yours too thepunisher.
So much coding skill. Too bad the AI art disgraces it.
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an old Amiga hardware trick that even Photon knows about
Yeah, I decided against having a bitplane-free section and using color 0 as the on-the-fly color, since I wanted the border stripes to match the center column and to line up properly with the chunks on both sides. This resulted in a very clean solution which was good enough to reach the 57 rows I wanted.
Of course, if I had noticed the size of the first hidden part, I would have gone for 58, which would have been doable with a bit more optimization and by cutting some of h0ffman's generous 7 scanline budget for music and scroller. ;)
On that note, I realize I didn't quite express myself clearly in the scroller (and readme). When I wrote "with music", what I had in mind was "being able to tolerate unpredictable DMA activity on all four audio channels", since I foresaw this being an issue when pressing the cycle exact approach further.
You still hold that record, since I only matched it. But you did not break it here.
When writing the comment above about Hannibal still being in the lead, I then somehow managed to confuse myself to think that this also invalidated your width record. Of course it doesn't. Congratulations on your 85 columns! :-D
And don't get me wrong: I do agree that making sacrifices (such as realtime capability and audio channels in this case) is an essential and even commendable part of record breaking. For one thing, it inspired me to contemplate better uses of disabled audio channels than silence.
In conclusion, I feel the urge to repeat what I said to Photon nine years ago:
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Nice proof of concept. Makes me want to beat it some day. ;)
The game is definitely not over.
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yeah, the thing is it's not about it. While I mainly share your vision on what demos are, look, sound disks are about music, slide shows are about pictures, and record breaking intros are about code. Clearly, artistic merit took a day off here
Some did very well putting together records with great design , but it takes an awful amount of time, and I remember Leonard asking different artists for a Cyclop picture for months without getting any.
Kudos to Rhino for the great code and to Estrayk for managing to do something that sounds ok with only 2 channels, and thank you to all the people out there releasing demos to entertain us. Popcorn mode on, can't wait to see the next record breaking release.
I just love how this is leading to a competition between some of the best amiga coding minds today! I hope some unexpected coder suddenly jumps in to surprise the usual suspects! Late thump here!
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yeah, the thing is it's not about it
why not use an UV checkerboard texture then
Love the coding contest!
But The Joker is a Knobhead and Grok which funds a white suppremacist is the absolute worst you can have used... which raise more questions about your standards and those of your group.
And no. You're not just the one with the technical stuff, hehe. You're the one making and releasing these; sending a message, showing your standards and the standards of your group.
You can do better than that.
But The Joker is a Knobhead and Grok which funds a white suppremacist is the absolute worst you can have used... which raise more questions about your standards and those of your group.
And no. You're not just the one with the technical stuff, hehe. You're the one making and releasing these; sending a message, showing your standards and the standards of your group.
You can do better than that.
Politics kill everything, especially when only held against others.
Hey Blueberry!
First of all, I want you to know that I have nothing personal against you, on the contrary, I decided to participate in this challenge because I consider you one of the best Amiga coders. The jocular tone of the prods is due to the Joker theme and perhaps to add an extra point of motivation. I hope you didn't find it offensive.
I agree. There are many specific records we can make and here I don't beat the record for largest 4x4 RGB rotozoom + 4 DMA music channels + scrolltext.
It also occurs to me that you might have the record for the largest 4x4 RGB rotozoom in 100% real time (since I precalculate the offsets on all of them), and even the widest 4x4 RGB rotozoom in real time if Hannibal's 80-column one wasn't (which I don't know). For my part, I claim 6 records in the readme :)
In my opinion, the important ones are 2: the one with the most columns and the one with the most blocks and I will accept to be beaten in any of them if those marks are improved regardless of whether it is done with or without music, or the gfx are AI and the intro is more or less ugly.
Great, that's the spirit of the demoscene! Good luck!
First of all, I want you to know that I have nothing personal against you, on the contrary, I decided to participate in this challenge because I consider you one of the best Amiga coders. The jocular tone of the prods is due to the Joker theme and perhaps to add an extra point of motivation. I hope you didn't find it offensive.
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On that note, I realize I didn't quite express myself clearly in the scroller (and readme). When I wrote "with music", what I had in mind was "being able to tolerate unpredictable DMA activity on all four audio channels", since I foresaw this being an issue when pressing the cycle exact approach further.
You still hold that record, since I only matched it. But you did not break it here.
I agree. There are many specific records we can make and here I don't beat the record for largest 4x4 RGB rotozoom + 4 DMA music channels + scrolltext.
It also occurs to me that you might have the record for the largest 4x4 RGB rotozoom in 100% real time (since I precalculate the offsets on all of them), and even the widest 4x4 RGB rotozoom in real time if Hannibal's 80-column one wasn't (which I don't know). For my part, I claim 6 records in the readme :)
In my opinion, the important ones are 2: the one with the most columns and the one with the most blocks and I will accept to be beaten in any of them if those marks are improved regardless of whether it is done with or without music, or the gfx are AI and the intro is more or less ugly.
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In conclusion, I feel the urge to repeat what I said to Photon nine years ago:
Quote:Nice proof of concept. Makes me want to beat it some day. ;)
The game is definitely not over.
Great, that's the spirit of the demoscene! Good luck!
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I'm curious what "one step too far for me" means
I suppose it means it was something I ruled out in my attempts because in my mind it didn't count. We probably all have slightly different ideas of what compromises are acceptable, but you're right that nobody specified this for this record.
You're also right that there are lots of potential records, and I still think that others are worth exploring, even if this is the end of the road for 'max columns at any cost'.
I have absolute respect for everyone attempting this challenge, and had no intention to take away from anyone's achievements by voicing my thoughts on this.
AI doesn't really play a role here (the Joker could've been for example a playing card joker, though), tune is nice enough for what it is. Thumb up for the main thing.
you can just choose to not do this, not that hard
A REFERENTIAL CROSS-PLATFORM INTERLOPER
SHOWCASING A LESSER CHIPSET
IS DEPLOYED AS A PAWN
A RHETORICAL PAWN
IN CRITIQUE OF ARTISTIC MERIT
16-BIT SCENES AMALGAM;
INTELLECTUALLY, SPIRITUALLY
SHOWCASING A LESSER CHIPSET
IS DEPLOYED AS A PAWN
A RHETORICAL PAWN
IN CRITIQUE OF ARTISTIC MERIT
16-BIT SCENES AMALGAM;
INTELLECTUALLY, SPIRITUALLY
The fact that it's incidental just makes it worse. You fire up some proprietary model that turns gigawatt hours into /pol/ greentext and you don't even make it count. You use it for something that's literally interchangeable with any other image in existence. A glorified lena.jpg, a Fig. 1 for a proof of concept.
I can't believe I actually kind of miss the days when we used to debate if you can make something with Unreal Engine and call it a demo. Maybe we had pedantic, arbitrary standards, but at least we had standards.
I can't believe I actually kind of miss the days when we used to debate if you can make something with Unreal Engine and call it a demo. Maybe we had pedantic, arbitrary standards, but at least we had standards.
Very nice! and impressive that you made it in just a couple of days.
This rules, a lot!
Checking this on my mobile so need to check deeper tomorrow regarding the tech side.
About the AI image. Why not? It’s clearly a pure tech race as this point. With a cocky nudge to each other for every step forward = hence the image motive.
People are talking about standard but for me the standard of comments are complains are getting worse and worse.
As Rhino mentioned. Where is the focus on the code?
It’s like the level when one throw up a design sketch on the table and state “hey what do you think about the idea, don’t focus on the drawing quality that is not the point” and the reply is “it looks a bit unfinished” = people don’t listen or care to listen.
About the AI image. Why not? It’s clearly a pure tech race as this point. With a cocky nudge to each other for every step forward = hence the image motive.
People are talking about standard but for me the standard of comments are complains are getting worse and worse.
As Rhino mentioned. Where is the focus on the code?
It’s like the level when one throw up a design sketch on the table and state “hey what do you think about the idea, don’t focus on the drawing quality that is not the point” and the reply is “it looks a bit unfinished” = people don’t listen or care to listen.
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Breaking records is the backbone of the demoscene, my thumb is pointing in the same direction as my dick right now, and yours too thepunisher.
If your idea of the demoscene is just breaking records, your vision’s about as limited as your brain, clearly.
And yeah, my dick points up too, but for things a lot more stimulating, real things of flesh and bone. You should try that someday.
If it still gets up, that is. ;)
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Quote:yeah, the thing is it's not about it. While I mainly share your vision on what demos are, look, sound disks are about music, slide shows are about pictures, and record breaking intros are about code.Clearly, artistic merit took a day off here
LOL
Thanks for enlightening me that there are other types of productions in the demoscene, who would've thought after 40 years? ;)
Many records have been broken and, in many cases, presented with the elegance they deserve. However, honestly, my interest in a mere piece of code that only breaks a record is minimal if it’s not properly dressed with some style.
In the real world, it’s like owning a rare jewel but showing it off while wearing a neon tracksuit and oversized sunglasses, impressive jewel, sure, but completely overshadowed by that garish outfit. A demo without artistic merit is just raw numbers, a demo with style becomes an experience.
So, while code and technical feats are also part of the demoscene, without a bit of soul or polish, it’s hard for me to get excited. That’s why if it really is a record, despite the tricks, here he/she has their 50 cents, and onto the next thing.
You either see the demoscene as an “ego contest chasing self-esteem” or as something truly artistic supported by technical skill. The former is, besides being embarrassing, quite tacky, turning this into an insular microcosm designed for a handful of coders that would hold no interest whatsoever for the vast majority of people who follow or participate in it. This isn’t JUST my opinion, it’s a fact.
To the punisher. I did not get that his saying was that it’s only about breaking records. He stated that records have historically been the backbone of the demo scene.
I have never been a fan of the records but I understand the purpose of it. And no it’s not just about ego boosting but exactly what it is : trying to push the hardware to its limits and beyond under certain conditions. That’s all.
Same as we compete in music and compete in art we compete in code.
Often this code is to bring art, design and audio together to a common artistic experience. But sometimes it’s just for the sake of pushing the hardware.
Do I truly enjoy such ? Again not so much. Clearly not as much as an artistic demo. But I don’t judge it as I see it differently.
What I find a bit ironic is again how AI art is bashed although the use of images and reference has been going on for ages.
Also I smirk inside when people complain that it’s not artistic enough. Same people (sometimes) complains of a demo uses precaled data. Or just some restored images to achieve an effect. Then suddenly it’s not technical enough and suddenly that demo even though it visually amazing gets disqualified (like some still hate Eon for not being so techy or - FX enough.
For me the biggest thing here is that the context here is clear. It’s Amiga more rows. And yes. It can be presented more nicely. Fair to point that out. What is not fair is the tone that a product is wrong or bad or boring. When it’s clear what to expect. You should know before you even watch it and know it’s probably not for you. And I think giving negative comments in this context it’s just well… of no value. My 5 cents
I have never been a fan of the records but I understand the purpose of it. And no it’s not just about ego boosting but exactly what it is : trying to push the hardware to its limits and beyond under certain conditions. That’s all.
Same as we compete in music and compete in art we compete in code.
Often this code is to bring art, design and audio together to a common artistic experience. But sometimes it’s just for the sake of pushing the hardware.
Do I truly enjoy such ? Again not so much. Clearly not as much as an artistic demo. But I don’t judge it as I see it differently.
What I find a bit ironic is again how AI art is bashed although the use of images and reference has been going on for ages.
Also I smirk inside when people complain that it’s not artistic enough. Same people (sometimes) complains of a demo uses precaled data. Or just some restored images to achieve an effect. Then suddenly it’s not technical enough and suddenly that demo even though it visually amazing gets disqualified (like some still hate Eon for not being so techy or - FX enough.
For me the biggest thing here is that the context here is clear. It’s Amiga more rows. And yes. It can be presented more nicely. Fair to point that out. What is not fair is the tone that a product is wrong or bad or boring. When it’s clear what to expect. You should know before you even watch it and know it’s probably not for you. And I think giving negative comments in this context it’s just well… of no value. My 5 cents
New record, congratulations Rhino and all the team!
Wow… there’s been a lot of negativity here lately. Some people really need to grow up and remember that this is the demoscene—not a business where people are expected to issue press releases and manage PR.
And now we even have a Spanish troll who created a new account just to hide their identity—seriously, what a cowardly move.
That said, despite all the nonsense floating around this forum, I think it’s fantastic to see records being broken. This is what the demoscene is all about.
We could dive deep into the low-level technical details, but let’s be honest: if someone had presented this 30 years ago, we’d all be amazed, not hating on it.
For me, the goal is clear: how many 4px columns can we push to the screen? This demo achieves that brilliantly. If you think you can top it—great! Add more channels, more effects, more columns… Show us what you’ve got. But don’t resort to trolling. That’s not how you earn respect here.
Let’s not forget: making a demo is all about using tricks—pushing the hardware beyond its limits to achieve stunning results. That’s the heart of the demoscene.
So, hats off to @Rhino for this achievement. And of course, big respect to @Blueberry , your work continues to impress with both technical finesse and great design.
Now, let’s see what you can do. If you’ve got something better, bring it on. If not, maybe just appreciate the art—or stay quiet.
And now we even have a Spanish troll who created a new account just to hide their identity—seriously, what a cowardly move.
That said, despite all the nonsense floating around this forum, I think it’s fantastic to see records being broken. This is what the demoscene is all about.
We could dive deep into the low-level technical details, but let’s be honest: if someone had presented this 30 years ago, we’d all be amazed, not hating on it.
For me, the goal is clear: how many 4px columns can we push to the screen? This demo achieves that brilliantly. If you think you can top it—great! Add more channels, more effects, more columns… Show us what you’ve got. But don’t resort to trolling. That’s not how you earn respect here.
Let’s not forget: making a demo is all about using tricks—pushing the hardware beyond its limits to achieve stunning results. That’s the heart of the demoscene.
So, hats off to @Rhino for this achievement. And of course, big respect to @Blueberry , your work continues to impress with both technical finesse and great design.
Now, let’s see what you can do. If you’ve got something better, bring it on. If not, maybe just appreciate the art—or stay quiet.
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To the punisher. I did not get that his saying was that it’s only about breaking records. He stated that records have historically been the backbone of the demo scene.
I have never been a fan of the records but I understand the purpose of it. And no it’s not just about ego boosting but exactly what it is : trying to push the hardware to its limits and beyond under certain conditions. That’s all.
Same as we compete in music and compete in art we compete in code.
Often this code is to bring art, design and audio together to a common artistic experience. But sometimes it’s just for the sake of pushing the hardware.
Do I truly enjoy such ? Again not so much. Clearly not as much as an artistic demo. But I don’t judge it as I see it differently.
What I find a bit ironic is again how AI art is bashed although the use of images and reference has been going on for ages.
Also I smirk inside when people complain that it’s not artistic enough. Same people (sometimes) complains of a demo uses precaled data. Or just some restored images to achieve an effect. Then suddenly it’s not technical enough and suddenly that demo even though it visually amazing gets disqualified (like some still hate Eon for not being so techy or - FX enough.
For me the biggest thing here is that the context here is clear. It’s Amiga more rows. And yes. It can be presented more nicely. Fair to point that out. What is not fair is the tone that a product is wrong or bad or boring. When it’s clear what to expect. You should know before you even watch it and know it’s probably not for you. And I think giving negative comments in this context it’s just well… of no value. My 5 cents
I agree that technical records or purely technological challenges have their place in the scene. Personally, I get excited by them when they are wrapped in something more creative and presented in an elegant way, letting others figure out what you've done without having to shout that it’s a new record. I believe breaking records doesn’t have to come at the expense of fairness, clean presentation, or a respectful attitude when facing doubts or criticism.
What really makes me laugh is when someone tries to give moral lessons to others about how they should or shouldn't behave, or comment, without realizing they’re falling into the very same behavior they're criticizing, standing on a pulpit no one gave them, and certainly no one asked for.
You don’t know me, nor do you know what criteria I use to make a comment. So implying that I didn’t understand it, or that I came in with bad intentions, seems completely off and, frankly, ridiculous, not to say something harsher.
That said, if I took the time to watch and comment on this so-called record, it’s precisely because, in my opinion, everything I mentioned above, presentation and attitude, is lacking here. That’s my view. I don’t expect you to agree, and I certainly don’t need you to.
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You don’t know me, nor do you know what criteria I use to make a comment. So implying that I didn’t understand it, or that I came in with bad intentions, seems completely off and, frankly, ridiculous, not to say something harsher.
The Punisher... you understand that the opinion of an account created just 24 hours ago, posting mostly hateful comments, isn’t exactly something that deserves much respect—neither for its judgment nor for its supposed knowledge, right?
Could you tell us what your actual contributions to the demoscene have been—those that would give credibility to this freshly created account and show that it's run by someone with deep knowledge of the scene?
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The Pnisher... you understand that the opinion of an account created just 24 hours ago, posting mostly hateful comments, isn’t exactly something that deserves much respect—neither for its judgment nor for its supposed knowledge, right?
Could you tell us what your actual contributions to the demoscene have been—those that would give credibility to this freshly created account and show that it's run by someone with deep knowledge of the scene?
First of all, I didn’t post any hateful messages, just personal opinions and criticism about something I didn’t like. That’s not hate, it’s perspective. You’re not just misrepresenting what I said, you’re doing it maliciously.
Second, your argument is full of first-year rhetoric fallacies. The fact that my account is recent has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of what I said. Either engage with the content of the opinion or don’t, but attacking the age of the account is just lazy deflection.
And honestly, it’s funny how some feel the need to gang up on someone, like a herd instinct kicking in the moment a dissenting voice appears. It’s almost pathetic.
As for what I’ve done in the scene, that’s my business. I didn’t come here to play the “main character” in some demoscene horror flick. I came to comment on a production, not to submit my résumé for your approval. But if it helps you sleep better at night: I mostly worked in the entertainment industry creating videogames, not demos.
To whoever tries to drag my name through the mud in the same way, go ahead, vent if you want. I’m not wasting another minute replying to people twisting my words and turning me into a cartoon villain. For that, we’d have to meet in person... and maybe then you’ll be in for a surprise. :)
The only thing that I could find reprehensible is to try to hide AI usage and take credit for it. Here, this is not the case, AI usage was fairly noted, so not a problem for me. Great record breaking, and great effort.
Esos Batman. Los putos amos.
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You don’t know me, nor do you know what criteria I use to make a comment. So implying that I didn’t understand it, or that I came in with bad intentions, seems completely off and, frankly, ridiculous, not to say something harsher.
I think ridiculous is harsh enough. And maybe that what I react to in the negative comments in general. They are harsh, for me bordering on rude.
I did not say you did not understand. I never implied that you had bad intentions. I said that as the context is clear I personally find (not just your) negative comment of little value to me personally. You can write whatever you want. I have not blocked or gatekeept anthing, and you are true that I do the same as you, comment unfavorable to something. I (again my own opinion) its a bit different to react on some comments (again not just yours) but then again you are free to write what you want, same as I of course.
In the end for me its all about the tone, and I leave it up to other to judge how my tone to you have been compared how your tone to others have been. This heard mentality you speak about I find as much when it comes to critique of a production.
Again, I agree with you about what I personally want in a demo. I have nothing more to say really as I think we both stand pretty firm in our sides here.
Anyway, maybe I misread you, key is that there is a lot of harsh things around so maybe that is why I "reacted" Take care
Breaking a record can be cool, but if you do it by sacrificing everything, even using AI just for a simple texture, then you’re not looking for respect, you’re just desperate for validation. And it shows. Big time.
This isn’t what the Amiga demoscene means to me.
Meh :\
This isn’t what the Amiga demoscene means to me.
Meh :\
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Breaking a record can be cool, but if you do it by sacrificing everything, even using AI just for a simple texture, then you’re not looking for respect, you’re just desperate for validation. And it shows. Big time.
This isn’t what the Amiga demoscene means to me.
Meh :\
"account created on the 2025-07-30 08:05:34"
nothing more to say
well done @Rhino/BG & @estrayk
Quote:
"account created on the 2025-07-30 08:05:34"
nothing more to say
Oh wow, seriously. Don’t you have anything better to do than babysit every new sign-up?
That’s gatekeeping, pure old-school mindset. Congrats ;)
If you’re capable of giving a proper response, go ahead.
Or maybe dropping passive-aggressive lines and walking away is all you know how to do.
Guys, are you trying to reason with my personal troll? xD
He only creates new accounts to give thumbs down here and on Batman Rises and thumbs up to the rest of the demos in the top 10, but I have to say I'm proud of him; he's demonstrating a level of Florentine artistic refinement only worthy of Renaissance men. After all this time, I'm excited to have a personal troll like this. On the other hand, I have to scold him for being so lazy in his BR reviews: "no soul," "boring," "overrated"... they don't seem like the elaborate critiques of a consummate mannerist. Nothing I can't forgive him for as long as he's obedient and keeps commenting here to entertain us :)
He only creates new accounts to give thumbs down here and on Batman Rises and thumbs up to the rest of the demos in the top 10, but I have to say I'm proud of him; he's demonstrating a level of Florentine artistic refinement only worthy of Renaissance men. After all this time, I'm excited to have a personal troll like this. On the other hand, I have to scold him for being so lazy in his BR reviews: "no soul," "boring," "overrated"... they don't seem like the elaborate critiques of a consummate mannerist. Nothing I can't forgive him for as long as he's obedient and keeps commenting here to entertain us :)
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Guys, are you trying to reason with my personal troll? xD
He only creates new accounts to give thumbs down here and on Batman Rises and thumbs up to the rest of the demos in the top 10, but I have to say I'm proud of him; he's demonstrating a level of Florentine artistic refinement only worthy of Renaissance men. After all this time, I'm excited to have a personal troll like this. On the other hand, I have to scold him for being so lazy in his BR reviews: "no soul," "boring," "overrated"... they don't seem like the elaborate critiques of a consummate mannerist. Nothing I can't forgive him for as long as he's obedient and keeps commenting here to entertain us :)
The only thing you’ve got is your virginity. For a professional troll, your holy mother should’ve used that condom that drunken night so she wouldn’t have to put up with such an arrogant asshole now.
By the way, thanks for giving me a personalized stalk. Now I have my own stalker too, only the dumbass doesn’t know who he’s messing with. You’re just showing more of your insecurity and need for approval. We’re the ones laughing at you, idiot ;)
Well done....
Quote:
The only thing you’ve got is your virginity. For a professional troll, your holy mother should’ve used that condom that drunken night so she wouldn’t have to put up with such an arrogant asshole now.
By the way, thanks for giving me a personalized stalk. Now I have my own stalker too, only the dumbass doesn’t know who he’s messing with. You’re just showing more of your insecurity and need for approval. We’re the ones laughing at you, idiot ;)
Hahaha Good boy!, I just say 'jump' and you do it ;)
I like that you are so obedient, but those manners... where are the man who only sought Beauty? :/
Well, anyway, now I go to the beach to enjoy a magnificent summer, so I don't have any more time to educate you.
Don't behave too badly in my absence ;)
Wow, a lot of sentiment here. The drama in these comments alone warrent another thumb. But here's one for pushing *some* record ;). Keep it going guys!
Gotta love it, if only for the drama.
Nice ! Thumb Up. (Moral support against useless haters...)
Hey @Rhino, not only did you smash the record for most 4pixel - chopper columns , but you also set a new high score for the number of troll accounts created and used in a single forum just to fling crap.
Truly, a record-breaking legend 😄👏
Simplecode: account created on the 2025-07-26 21:50:18
thepunisher: account created on the 2025-07-29 05:31:01
shadowoff: account created on the 2025-07-30 08:05:34
Truly, a record-breaking legend 😄👏
Simplecode: account created on the 2025-07-26 21:50:18
thepunisher: account created on the 2025-07-29 05:31:01
shadowoff: account created on the 2025-07-30 08:05:34
Its nice and all together - but the sound... needs more channels
Yeah tune is what it is with 2 channels and no commands/effects (i guess it is F03 speed though?) but unfortunately still have heard tons of worse tunes with full channels and effects...
Carry on sucking each other’s dicks—do us all a favor and take it to a motel.
This place is absolutely crawling with ass-kissers desperate to wet their whistle—for free, naturally.
Now, do keep in mind Mr. Rhinoceros, aka Stalkie (as we shall dub him henceforth, for brevity’s sake).
With this charming fellow, it’s rather difficult to discern exactly where his gaze lands. Should you glimpse a photograph, you’ll understand immediately, though I must warn you, that visage is quite unforgettable.
This farce has run its course. We’ve enjoyed some amusement at the expense of the forum’s misfits, yet dear little Stalkie insists on turning it into a melodrama, hoping to attract a crowd to worship this spectacle of public ass-kissing.
Perhaps the Batman gang will even issue a statement on X, lamenting their victimhood at the hands of a Judeo-Masonic conspiracy. Not their first rodeo, I’m afraid.
Those Andalusian bros really are a special breed.
By the way, according to a well-known Amiga demoscene database, Estrayk is a Coder, Music Artist, Texter, Graphics Artist, Packdisk Editor, Swapper, and Organizer. What a self-proclaimed multi-talented genius!
We’re dying to see all that “masterwork” published, especially the coder part, because the last thing we actually know from him are some mediocre tunes he makes under Stalkie’s command.
He’s that passive-aggressive guy who always ends up running away with his tail between his legs when things get serious.
A real expert at hiding while trying to look important.
Muppets!
GAME OVER
LOL
This place is absolutely crawling with ass-kissers desperate to wet their whistle—for free, naturally.
Now, do keep in mind Mr. Rhinoceros, aka Stalkie (as we shall dub him henceforth, for brevity’s sake).
With this charming fellow, it’s rather difficult to discern exactly where his gaze lands. Should you glimpse a photograph, you’ll understand immediately, though I must warn you, that visage is quite unforgettable.
This farce has run its course. We’ve enjoyed some amusement at the expense of the forum’s misfits, yet dear little Stalkie insists on turning it into a melodrama, hoping to attract a crowd to worship this spectacle of public ass-kissing.
Perhaps the Batman gang will even issue a statement on X, lamenting their victimhood at the hands of a Judeo-Masonic conspiracy. Not their first rodeo, I’m afraid.
Those Andalusian bros really are a special breed.
By the way, according to a well-known Amiga demoscene database, Estrayk is a Coder, Music Artist, Texter, Graphics Artist, Packdisk Editor, Swapper, and Organizer. What a self-proclaimed multi-talented genius!
We’re dying to see all that “masterwork” published, especially the coder part, because the last thing we actually know from him are some mediocre tunes he makes under Stalkie’s command.
He’s that passive-aggressive guy who always ends up running away with his tail between his legs when things get serious.
A real expert at hiding while trying to look important.
Muppets!
GAME OVER
LOL
Anyway, you guys are probably going to have the record broken from you guys soon if it's really this competitive (maybe even you guys will break your own record!). So again, I think you should get ahead of the curve and try to ask for someone from Wanted.Scene.Org to start drawing an awesomesauce pixel art Joker. I'm sure there's probably graphicians out there that'd be delighted to be a part from such a record and would gladly step up for the occasion!
sure I like it enough and Serpent, you're right, but I personally would limit whatever running on screen, not interfering with ability to run a normal 4 channel audio. IMSO (stupid opinion) you should have soundfx on the 2 "not music" channels then, like explosions and lasers!!1 ;D
ok and now I have officially thumbed up "AI" because default is thumbs up grr
I'm too tired to decide what I did so, take it or leave it! huhhahhei -> gets out
Respect.
Quote:
He’s that passive-aggressive guy who always ends up running away with his tail between his legs when things get serious.
A real expert at hiding while trying to look important.
I have to admit that this part has really perplexed me. If you read above, I replied to someone admitting that the music isn't great, but I made it clear that there was a technical limitation so it might not sound like other modules with more channels. If that's what you mean
Awesome production!!
For me the music is really great, a true Estrayk tune!
Is it available as .mod somewhere?
I looked on a few webpages, but unfortunately didn't find it.
Even if I usually don't like AI generated graphics at all, it fits quite well here in my humble taste.
But on the other hand, "AI" generated graphics - one can see them as some kind of texture-generator which is trained on datasets, for me it's a balance of 50:50 of ok/not so ok to use them in demos/intros/cracktros/whatever.
Another issue...
DAFUQ??!
Shadowoff, who the fuck you actually are?
Spread your hate and psychosis somewhere else, thanks.
Maybe you should move over to TikTok, it's full of people like you.
For me the music is really great, a true Estrayk tune!
Is it available as .mod somewhere?
I looked on a few webpages, but unfortunately didn't find it.
Even if I usually don't like AI generated graphics at all, it fits quite well here in my humble taste.
But on the other hand, "AI" generated graphics - one can see them as some kind of texture-generator which is trained on datasets, for me it's a balance of 50:50 of ok/not so ok to use them in demos/intros/cracktros/whatever.
Another issue...
Quote:
By the way, according to a well-known Amiga demoscene database, Estrayk is a Coder, Music Artist, Texter, Graphics Artist, Packdisk Editor, Swapper, and Organizer. What a self-proclaimed multi-talented genius!
We’re dying to see all that “masterwork” published, especially the coder part, because the last thing we actually know from him are some mediocre tunes he makes under Stalkie’s command.
DAFUQ??!
Shadowoff, who the fuck you actually are?
Spread your hate and psychosis somewhere else, thanks.
Maybe you should move over to TikTok, it's full of people like you.
submit changes
if this prod is a fake, some info is false or the download link is broken,
do not post about it in the comments, it will get lost.
instead, click here !