What about using a free, real men OS?
category: general [glöplog]
rez: (Mac OS Tiger + iLife 05).
Since, the system autoupdate without asking me for money :)
okay, so you didn't have it before 10.4 released. Yes of course security patches don't cost money, but those are only 10.3.n -> 10.3.n++. (is there any OS where they do?!) The 10.3 -> 10.4 update costs money - 120 bucks for desktop widgets that I won't ever use. Yay.
I just wanted to make sure that you weren't talking out of your ass, like funkyou78.
By the way, where'd funkyou78 go? Seems like he skulked off. Maybe he's reprogamming his network drivers so that he can upgrade from dialup to DSL. Or maybe he's making that cool database-webserver driven MMO demo!
Since, the system autoupdate without asking me for money :)
okay, so you didn't have it before 10.4 released. Yes of course security patches don't cost money, but those are only 10.3.n -> 10.3.n++. (is there any OS where they do?!) The 10.3 -> 10.4 update costs money - 120 bucks for desktop widgets that I won't ever use. Yay.
I just wanted to make sure that you weren't talking out of your ass, like funkyou78.
By the way, where'd funkyou78 go? Seems like he skulked off. Maybe he's reprogamming his network drivers so that he can upgrade from dialup to DSL. Or maybe he's making that cool database-webserver driven MMO demo!
Give him a break, installing new kernels takes some time, even if its because your new drivers arent 100% compatible.
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but only 2 days of using linux gives me the amount of stress/headache i get in a year while using windows.
This has less to do with how well Linux is suited for desktop use, and alot more to do with the fact that in only 2 days all you can experience is the shock of the transition.
If you ever want to switch (to anything else than Windows btw, not just Linux), it's going to take alot more time and effort than just two days. It's worth it all the way, but easy it is not.
I mean, come on! have you forgotten what a shock it was to switch to Windows in the first place? :-)
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By the way, where'd funkyou78 go? Seems like he skulked off. Maybe he's reprogamming his network drivers so that he can upgrade from dialup to DSL. Or maybe he's making that cool database-webserver driven MMO demo!
The man said he would stop preaching. What's wrong with you? You have a flame deficiency syndrome or something? :-)
Oh, and about the kernel recompiling stuff, do you really want to force me to spend the next two hours typing two pages of text with all the problems and stupidities with Windows which made me switch in the first place? I am sure you don't.
Hey guys, how about that:
Everybody use the OS they prefer and that meets their needs without trying to convince the others with some retarded zealotry ?
Everybody use the OS they prefer and that meets their needs without trying to convince the others with some retarded zealotry ?
At the risk of making this thread live longer than Methuselah, I wish to write something serious.
I've been using Linux for the past six months. Not a dual boot, just Linux. Wiped WinXP clean off my hard drive.
The reason for this sudden switch is I've been wanting to give Linux a try for some time now. Not just some "one night stand", but a long term trial. Only one thing held me back from doing this in the past: I didn't want to give up demo watching. But for next while I'm in a situation where I want to limit distractions as much as possible (for reasons that are of no interest to anyone but myself).
As you may have guessed, I have never once thought of Linux as an ideal demo platform. It isn't. The realtime multimedia support is poor most respects. (On a side note, movie watching and whatnot is on par with WinXP and OSX.) I also do not think it is up to demosceners to volunteer their time to create graphic and sound APIs and similar support in Linux. That's up to existing Linux developers. If they think demos are a cool way to bring new users to Linux then *they* have to be accommodating, not sceners. Sceners make demos, not APIs.
On the flip side, I think many of you are talking straight out your backsides when saying Linux needs continually tweaking, or it takes weeks to get it working, or it's only good for tinkerers, or whatever. Maybe that was true in the 90's, but sure as fuck isn't true anymore. Perhaps there are plenty of distros still aimed a such a crowed, but the majority of desktop distros in actual use are easy to install and don't require much -- if any -- tweaking. The only "tweaking" I did on my install was in the first few days and I haven't touched anything since. (Most of that was just arranging menus, selecting themes, fonts, etc..)
In response to the dipshit who started this thread, it's up to the current Linux community to attract the demoscene, not vice versa, which is in essence what you're suggesting. Linux is useful at many things, but it is not a particularly suitable demo platform. At least not right now.
And on a final note, GIMP is seriously gimpy.
I've been using Linux for the past six months. Not a dual boot, just Linux. Wiped WinXP clean off my hard drive.
The reason for this sudden switch is I've been wanting to give Linux a try for some time now. Not just some "one night stand", but a long term trial. Only one thing held me back from doing this in the past: I didn't want to give up demo watching. But for next while I'm in a situation where I want to limit distractions as much as possible (for reasons that are of no interest to anyone but myself).
As you may have guessed, I have never once thought of Linux as an ideal demo platform. It isn't. The realtime multimedia support is poor most respects. (On a side note, movie watching and whatnot is on par with WinXP and OSX.) I also do not think it is up to demosceners to volunteer their time to create graphic and sound APIs and similar support in Linux. That's up to existing Linux developers. If they think demos are a cool way to bring new users to Linux then *they* have to be accommodating, not sceners. Sceners make demos, not APIs.
On the flip side, I think many of you are talking straight out your backsides when saying Linux needs continually tweaking, or it takes weeks to get it working, or it's only good for tinkerers, or whatever. Maybe that was true in the 90's, but sure as fuck isn't true anymore. Perhaps there are plenty of distros still aimed a such a crowed, but the majority of desktop distros in actual use are easy to install and don't require much -- if any -- tweaking. The only "tweaking" I did on my install was in the first few days and I haven't touched anything since. (Most of that was just arranging menus, selecting themes, fonts, etc..)
In response to the dipshit who started this thread, it's up to the current Linux community to attract the demoscene, not vice versa, which is in essence what you're suggesting. Linux is useful at many things, but it is not a particularly suitable demo platform. At least not right now.
And on a final note, GIMP is seriously gimpy.
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At the risk of making this thread live longer than Methuselah
shit.. I had a witty comment on this but then I saw I misread the quote.. :/
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Oh, and about the kernel recompiling stuff, do you really want to force me to spend the next two hours typing two pages of text with all the problems and stupidities with Windows which made me switch in the first place? I am sure you don't.
I wasn't bringing up kernel recompiling specifically, just trying to bait him into actually having a discussion. Preaching and then running away is different from presenting a valid point and defending it. I didn't know that the network code was even -in- the kernel.
Anyway, the kernel crap - it's a ridiculous thing to do at all. The kernel these days is probably just fine. I'm sure it has USB support built in all the time now. I definetely wouldn't be able to tell from looking at it whether it was deeply fucked up or not. I've only taken -one- university course on kernel design and have only coded 3 microkernels, from scratch, on different architectures(HC11, Pic, and Arm/Thumb). I wouldn't trust anyone with less than 10 years of industry experience making/maintaining kernels to judge one, one way or the other. That would be like me telling you that the Kawasaki Ninja was better than the Honda Interceptor, based on my going on rides on them and owning a dirt bike.
If you want to rant about windows, go ahead. I dumped windows in my last year of university for probably the same reasons that you did. I used open office and staroffice and couldn't open files from work and had a relative make a resume on my machine that she couldn't print at the Kinkos. I hit freshmeat every day and played with sox and cursed my ISP when the windows boot could connect and the linux side couldn't. And I stuck through it. You know what brought me back? Starcraft, 256b.com and The Produkt.
Anyway, you owe me 2 pages of ranting. :)
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Everybody use the OS they prefer and that meets their needs without trying to convince the others with some retarded zealotry ?
Oh hush, let the idiots ramble on.
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the majority of desktop distros in actual use are easy to install and don't require much -- if any -- tweaking
That kinda started with Mandrake afaik,and I perfectly remember the slack it got (and still gets) from the "community" for being a "girlie Linux", i.e. having one-click ways to solve problems...
http://www.haiku-os.org
sorry i meant to post that before; these people are onto something wonderful, and I think they've worked their butt off too..
http://haiku-os.org/learn.php?mode=status
life without linux-ism and windows can be beautiful...
sorry i meant to post that before; these people are onto something wonderful, and I think they've worked their butt off too..
http://haiku-os.org/learn.php?mode=status
life without linux-ism and windows can be beautiful...
haha "girlie OS"
:(
baaah, those linux nerds are sooo mysogine, that make me puke 8{####
Amiga OS and Atari TOS are girlie OS too if you follow that...
baaah
:(
baaah, those linux nerds are sooo mysogine, that make me puke 8{####
Amiga OS and Atari TOS are girlie OS too if you follow that...
baaah
GEOS FTW
Yes, GEOS for the masses.
ja vittu gimp
Unite and fight the real enemy:
Atari = Terrorism!
Atari = Terrorism!
And to think the scene was still on DOS circa '99. It's fun to watch how ease of use is now defended to death (Not that Linux necessarily is much harder except with unusual setups).
As for lacking the multimedia support, games like Quake 4 run on Linux natively and last I checked even a lowly integrated intel GMA950 could run the 2005 "best effects" Scene.org awards candidates.
As for lacking the multimedia support, games like Quake 4 run on Linux natively and last I checked even a lowly integrated intel GMA950 could run the 2005 "best effects" Scene.org awards candidates.
I've read only 15% of this thread so far.
I really don't have any good reasons to use Linux this moment. Except from my curiosity because of the hype behind it. I wanted to try it several times in the past, most of the times I was just too busy with other things to share my time. There were few times I did something wrong during the installation and fucked up my XP installation ;P
And now I forgot it again. There is no reason for the moment (I don't need it for my work, I do what I need in windows) but someday I may check it again. But I think that even if I have Linux in my system, I won't use it much. I guess that if I don't really need it there is no point in bothering except from curiosity. But no time for that too..
I think demomakers should concentrate on making demos. Starting out with Linux is like joining another community and sharing a lot of dedication alone. Then it would be like 70% Linux, 30% demomaking, at least in the beginning ;P
Blah.
I really don't have any good reasons to use Linux this moment. Except from my curiosity because of the hype behind it. I wanted to try it several times in the past, most of the times I was just too busy with other things to share my time. There were few times I did something wrong during the installation and fucked up my XP installation ;P
And now I forgot it again. There is no reason for the moment (I don't need it for my work, I do what I need in windows) but someday I may check it again. But I think that even if I have Linux in my system, I won't use it much. I guess that if I don't really need it there is no point in bothering except from curiosity. But no time for that too..
I think demomakers should concentrate on making demos. Starting out with Linux is like joining another community and sharing a lot of dedication alone. Then it would be like 70% Linux, 30% demomaking, at least in the beginning ;P
Blah.
Someone mentioned lack of binary compatibility as a reason for not liking Linux. True to a certain extent (and Linux demos are notoriously bad at this) but this really is just a much wider problem with demos that is easy to notice due to the nature of the platform.
With each transition to a newer Windows version, some of the older prods become impossible to run. And these are just minor ones, not something like DOS->Windows, Amiga->PC or maybe some day a Windows->OS X or Windows->Linux. It's a pity to throw away (or make really difficult to access) such a legacy. People can still look at paintings from the 17th century or whatever with ease but with each passing day it becomes increasingly difficult to access old demos. Not only that but with Windows it will be harder than it has been with C64 & Amiga.
If only the source code to demos was posted more often. Changing platforms, being able to still see many of the older great demos on the lastest OS all would become a great deal easier. Taking a look at the code to see how things were done would be easy. What's the secrecy really buying the scene?
The respective communities around Linux and the demoscene are similar in some ways and I always wondered about why the two never mixed significantly. Had Linux been in full force already around the DOS->Windows transition we might have a different story.
Linux isn't going away (ever) though and is still growing. With all the DRM crap going on maybe it'll start appealing to even more people.
With each transition to a newer Windows version, some of the older prods become impossible to run. And these are just minor ones, not something like DOS->Windows, Amiga->PC or maybe some day a Windows->OS X or Windows->Linux. It's a pity to throw away (or make really difficult to access) such a legacy. People can still look at paintings from the 17th century or whatever with ease but with each passing day it becomes increasingly difficult to access old demos. Not only that but with Windows it will be harder than it has been with C64 & Amiga.
If only the source code to demos was posted more often. Changing platforms, being able to still see many of the older great demos on the lastest OS all would become a great deal easier. Taking a look at the code to see how things were done would be easy. What's the secrecy really buying the scene?
The respective communities around Linux and the demoscene are similar in some ways and I always wondered about why the two never mixed significantly. Had Linux been in full force already around the DOS->Windows transition we might have a different story.
Linux isn't going away (ever) though and is still growing. With all the DRM crap going on maybe it'll start appealing to even more people.
When you port a demo, you kill its soul.
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The respective communities around Linux and the demoscene are similar in some ways and I always wondered about why the two never mixed significantly.
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I think they are similar only on the surface.
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The respective communities around Linux and the demoscene are similar in some ways and I always wondered about why the two never mixed significantly.
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I think they are similar only on the surface.
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People can still look at paintings from the 17th century or whatever with ease but with each passing day it becomes increasingly difficult to access old demos.
I think getting a demo to run or to be emulated is part of the fun.
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If only the source code to demos was posted more often.
See: Hplus. Code released ages ago, yet to be ported because it's 100% asm with finnish comments.
The only thing I could make run was Knoppix from CD :)
And then the only thing I did on Knoppix was playing Frozen Bubble all the day =)))
p.s. Well, I tried to also run some Linux demos but nobody didn't ran and I never learned why. But now since we have a port of Dose2 I don't need Linux no more ;)))
And then the only thing I did on Knoppix was playing Frozen Bubble all the day =)))
p.s. Well, I tried to also run some Linux demos but nobody didn't ran and I never learned why. But now since we have a port of Dose2 I don't need Linux no more ;)))
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Taking a look at the code to see how things were done would be easy. What's the secrecy really buying the scene?
Nope, you're just going to have to figure out how to code a blur effect on your own. Also, when I'm shown the trick behind a magic trick, it's not magic anymore. Besides, Real Men wouldn't have to rely on such wimpy, mind-fukked approaches as relying on someone else's code... they'd reimplement rasterisation, tesselation, perspective transforms, mesh loading, etc etc from scratch, in software, with every demo they ever made. APIs are for wimps.
dear moT, i don't remember saying i had only 2 days of experience with linux/*nix. after all i could solve all my problems (which included one a regular linux user [read: no win at all] friend of mine gave up, as i just learned today, and i had to tell him how to do it, ehh :), just i was swearing & cursing continously and my adrenalin was at pretty unhealthy levels. believe me, the problems were caused by the system (first of all the stupidity, after that the bugs), not my lack of experience. even my linux-praising friends agree that these things are extremely stupid, just their priorities are different
Hyde:
Gargaj:
I like running demos on their original hardware as much as the next guy but I don't really see how ports kill the joy in that. If there's a port, it's just an option if you don't happen to have the required equipment to see the original version or want convenience. Do emulators kill demo souls as well?
Yeah, that can be a problem but I believe 100% asm demos are rather uncommon these days and I'm more concerned with them than intros, really.
GbND:
RRight. Well, I was thinking more along the lines of how it could be cool to see how things were done in some older prods but you're barking up the wrong tree with all the "Real men" stuff since I have said nothing along those lines and don't consider Linux an os for "real men". I don't agree with loss of any magic either, you can always close your eyes and not look at the source even if it is available if that's a problem for you personally.
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When you port a demo, you kill its soul.
Gargaj:
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I think getting a demo to run or to be emulated is part of the fun.
I like running demos on their original hardware as much as the next guy but I don't really see how ports kill the joy in that. If there's a port, it's just an option if you don't happen to have the required equipment to see the original version or want convenience. Do emulators kill demo souls as well?
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See: Hplus. Code released ages ago, yet to be ported because it's 100% asm with finnish comments.
Yeah, that can be a problem but I believe 100% asm demos are rather uncommon these days and I'm more concerned with them than intros, really.
GbND:
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Nope, you're just going to have to figure out how to code a blur effect on your own. Also, when I'm shown the trick behind a magic trick, it's not magic anymore. Besides, Real Men wouldn't have to rely on such wimpy, mind-fukked approaches as relying on someone else's code... they'd reimplement rasterisation, tesselation, perspective transforms, mesh loading, etc etc from scratch, in software, with every demo they ever made. APIs are for wimps.
RRight. Well, I was thinking more along the lines of how it could be cool to see how things were done in some older prods but you're barking up the wrong tree with all the "Real men" stuff since I have said nothing along those lines and don't consider Linux an os for "real men". I don't agree with loss of any magic either, you can always close your eyes and not look at the source even if it is available if that's a problem for you personally.