AI tooling in the Demoscene
category: residue [glöplog]
If they make something really cool using AI, all power to them IMHO
So far i have only seen boring, mostly mediocre at best, though
So far i have only seen boring, mostly mediocre at best, though
> i totally get that it's tempting to get rid of a tedious task that just seems annoying and "has to be done".
I agree that there is such a thing as being too lazy, and I think that is actually a large underlying part of the discussion. We're interested in human effort and the change that brings in humans. That's part of the art.
However... I don't really think your argument makes sense, because it can be applied just as well to Unreal Engine, Crinkler and any tools you use to paint. They are all just tools we use because they save us time. And we accept those tools because the leverage they create does not shortcurcuit the thing about the art that we are interested in.
Whether the tool is written by AI or not is irrelevant. The thing that matters is whether its leverage goes in a direction where the art becomes uninteresting.
For example use of Unity and Unreal Engine, which there is mixed opinions about. They can make the art uninteresting because "Well what did you really do?" If it's not clear that the author really did anything but just used builtin stuff in Unreal to create something pretty - well then the product will rightfully judged to be poor.
I agree that there is such a thing as being too lazy, and I think that is actually a large underlying part of the discussion. We're interested in human effort and the change that brings in humans. That's part of the art.
However... I don't really think your argument makes sense, because it can be applied just as well to Unreal Engine, Crinkler and any tools you use to paint. They are all just tools we use because they save us time. And we accept those tools because the leverage they create does not shortcurcuit the thing about the art that we are interested in.
Whether the tool is written by AI or not is irrelevant. The thing that matters is whether its leverage goes in a direction where the art becomes uninteresting.
For example use of Unity and Unreal Engine, which there is mixed opinions about. They can make the art uninteresting because "Well what did you really do?" If it's not clear that the author really did anything but just used builtin stuff in Unreal to create something pretty - well then the product will rightfully judged to be poor.
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if it's not clear that the author really did anything but just used builtin stuff in Unreal to create something pretty - well then the product will rightfully judged to be poor.
My take is if AI is used the outcome should be simply judged more harshly. Use AI, disclose, but know that this raises expectations. Exact same thing should apply for UE demos - if I ever see this default mannequin in a demo, instant down-vote.
However, it's just stupid if ppl down-vote just for the very fact AI or UE was involved.
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You do realize that if the internet says this is valuable art, then the LLM will claim the same? You do realize that the LLM image generator is trained on this? In other words, any "problem" you ascribe to "humans and art" transfers to (and even amplifies in) "AI and art".
Yes, I do realize that. And your point is? Does it mean I have to agree? No.
There has been a lot of romanticizing in this thread about the "sanctity" of human craft. My point is that the human baseline you are defending is already perfectly capable of producing, elevating, and buying into absolute nonsense. We all know AI is trained on human biases and flaws. If an LLM amplifies that, it is just a mirror reflecting the underlying human disease. If the human art establishment is full of pretension, the AI will be too. You're basically saying, "AI is trained to be just as absurd as the humans you're criticizing". I agree, but that doesn't excuse the humans who started the joke.
You're trying to use my critique of human art critics as a weapon against AI, but I'm just pointing out that the "human touch" isn't inherently immune to being complete bullshit.
Yeah, well, sorry, when you wrote “the problems with humans and art” I didn’t see the point in saying that if it doesn’t imply “as opposed to AI and art”. So I went that way.
Anyway, as you rightly said here, we should be really talking about “craft”. Art doesn’t necessarily include good craft. AI seeks to get rid of craft. But craft is almost all we have here in this subculture. We rarely dabble in art. In my book, both art and craft imply human experience. Experience of a real human individual, not the average of all human made art. Take that away and what you’re left with is neither craft nor art. But we’re going offtopic again.
Anyway, as you rightly said here, we should be really talking about “craft”. Art doesn’t necessarily include good craft. AI seeks to get rid of craft. But craft is almost all we have here in this subculture. We rarely dabble in art. In my book, both art and craft imply human experience. Experience of a real human individual, not the average of all human made art. Take that away and what you’re left with is neither craft nor art. But we’re going offtopic again.
