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My C64 YouTube links for demos etc. are rejected with the words: no :: 60hz crap

category: general [glöplog]
But, I know what you mean. I thought also sometimes to me, wow, this 640 blocks demo is now 700 MB big, when I finished the recording of a C64 demo... :D
added on the 2025-05-24 12:26:44 by G-Fellow G-Fellow
Maybe demos should have more randomised elements such that no two watchings (or recordings, for that matter) show exactly the same stuff.
added on the 2025-05-24 12:54:42 by Krill Krill
@Krill: Yeah, and it would get noticed by you, perhaps me, and other 7 people. It’s a battle lost. Also, interactivity never quite took root in demos. Even the press space is gone. These days, not only is hardware not mandatory, but you can also fast-forward in Vice. Not only that, but we also had that github page that took files from CSDb and played them in browser, oblivious to the host hardware platform. So, you could emulate on iPad, directly from the database. But even that is not enough I guess. So, are we hijacking this subject further or we stop? ;)
added on the 2025-05-24 13:12:48 by 4gentE 4gentE
OP is done for, so no prob hijacking. :)
added on the 2025-05-24 13:32:03 by Krill Krill
When will we stop rejecting 50 Hz captures and only accept 50.12?

(Also, I'd gladly stop watching YouTube videos of C64 prods once someone makes an online emulator where you can seek)
added on the 2025-05-24 15:07:36 by Sesse Sesse
Is 50.12 Hz an option for any current codec/container at all? :)

But then... even with perfectly appropriate original frame rate... it still looks a lot smoother on a CRT.
added on the 2025-05-24 15:49:57 by Krill Krill
What kb said. twice :)

Quote:
Is 50.12 Hz an option for any current codec/container at all? :)

ZMBV supports it, i don't know if the encoder dll supports fractional fps though (still looking for that source for that matter...)
Quote:
But then... even with perfectly appropriate original frame rate... it still looks a lot smoother on a CRT.

Indeed - even after all those years it always surprises me how much of a difference it is
added on the 2025-05-24 16:39:43 by groepaz groepaz
if yt and the capture chain supports it one could probably also capture in 100hz/fps to avoid the stuttering?
added on the 2025-05-24 16:48:13 by wysiwtf wysiwtf
Quote:
if yt and the capture chain supports it one could probably also capture in 100hz/fps to avoid the stuttering?


Mostly you can change the refresh rate in your OS.
added on the 2025-05-24 16:53:35 by G-Fellow G-Fellow
its about having a constant framerate in the capture. if the machine outputs 50 frames a second and you capture/play it with anything that is not 50 or a multiple of it you will get non constant framing in your video. which is why scrollers etc look like they are stuttering even if they are not.
added on the 2025-05-24 16:56:12 by wysiwtf wysiwtf
Maybe someone need to code a multi-frame-support codec.
added on the 2025-05-24 17:05:14 by G-Fellow G-Fellow
Any rational is acceptable as timebase (except of course for stuff like MPEG-TS, which has its own very high timebase), and nearly all containers will allow you to place frames on non-successive time points anyway. Most DVDs/Blu-rays are 24000/1001 (approx. 23.976), for instance. So encoding it is absolutely not a problem.
added on the 2025-05-24 17:09:31 by Sesse Sesse
Multi-hz-display-support-software, every hz of a video, get automatically supported, that is currently enabled on your OS!? Is that even possible?
added on the 2025-05-24 18:17:43 by G-Fellow G-Fellow
As said, you can add pretty much any display mode in the OS nowadays but you‘d have to do so for every refresh rate you want to play back. From then on it’s hoping that the screen actually supports the rate and doesn’t resample to its native one. I‘ve seen both in monitors big and small, expensive and cheap, so it’s mostly luck at that point.

As for format support and playback software, what Sesse said. No problems there (in theory).

Remains the question if there’s any equipment that is able to capture with the original signal timing (51.12Hz 288p with 312 actual lines per frame). Might be possible with a retro upscaler followed by some PCI HDMI capture card that comes with its own SDK. Someone find out :)
added on the 2025-05-24 19:17:44 by kb_ kb_
50.12, sorry :) (17.7MHz PAL clock / 18 / 63 cycles/line / 312 lines/frame)
added on the 2025-05-24 19:21:45 by kb_ kb_
kb_: I'm moderately sure I have equipment that could do it in theory, but I never got to the point of actually trying it when I still did demoparty streaming :-)

(We managed to convert into a 720p50.12 Hz SDI signal; a Decimator would normalize it and framedrop, but the SDI capture card refused the non-Decimator signal. However, said capture card could run with a custom FPGA bitstream…)

As for playback, G-Sync/FreeSync would be pretty much the best bet I can imagine.
added on the 2025-05-24 19:29:18 by Sesse Sesse
Sorry, make that a 576p50.12 signal (IIRC).
added on the 2025-05-24 19:37:13 by Sesse Sesse
Ah, right, VFR. I Always forget about that.

(note to self: check the BMD SDK for any hints their HDMI cards may be able to pull this off)
added on the 2025-05-24 19:43:41 by kb_ kb_
BMD cannot, we tried.
added on the 2025-05-24 20:06:30 by Sesse Sesse
Damnit. Ok, Deltacast and Aja then (though I don’t think the chances are very high from the glimpses I had at the SDKs)
added on the 2025-05-24 20:30:08 by kb_ kb_
How about capturing the raw signal and using vhsdecode? Useless for live, of course…
added on the 2025-05-24 20:46:46 by Sesse Sesse
Quote:
@Krill: Yeah, and it would get noticed by you, perhaps me, and other 7 people. It’s a battle lost. Also, interactivity never quite took root in demos. Even the press space is gone.


This might be a bit off-topic, but many early Amiga demos had multiple parts that would be accessed by pressing the left mouse button when you were ready to move on, and I saw a few Atari ST demos that had multiple parts accessed by a platform game (of all things), although I never saw the same on Amiga.
added on the 2025-05-24 21:00:45 by Foebane72 Foebane72
In the past nearly all demos had “press space” or “press LMB” to advance from part to part afaik. They were called “megademos” on Atari ST. This all ended with the invent of “trackmo”, when demos went into this “music video” audio/video sync direction with precisely timed editing, where they are now. And it’s a good thing they did imho.
added on the 2025-05-24 21:10:32 by 4gentE 4gentE
Quote:
Quote:
@Krill: Yeah, and it would get noticed by you, perhaps me, and other 7 people. It’s a battle lost. Also, interactivity never quite took root in demos. Even the press space is gone.


This might be a bit off-topic, but many early Amiga demos had multiple parts that would be accessed by pressing the left mouse button when you were ready to move on, and I saw a few Atari ST demos that had multiple parts accessed by a platform game (of all things), although I never saw the same on Amiga.


Here, an Amiga megademo with a platform "game" https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=19118 for your very own edification.
added on the 2025-05-24 21:18:59 by hitchhikr hitchhikr
Quote:
Here, an Amiga megademo with a platform "game" https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=19118 for your very own edification.


Thanks, hitchhikr! I'm glad the Amiga has these kind of "game" megademos, I just didn't know how to search for them.
added on the 2025-05-25 00:15:19 by Foebane72 Foebane72

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