pouët.net

The issue with is that while we all agree on the principle, but not on what exactly should be shouted into the future.

Which is nothing new. Already back in the 1980s, the scene (mostly the cracker scene) was already quite divided on how much insight shall we allow into our world. For example shall we allow journalists to report from copyparties? When outreach began around 2000, many saw it as "selling the scene", and turning it into another playground for "normal people" who will pull it down. I remember, back in 1999 or so, when I went to #c-64 on IRC to interview sceners for Freax, some people were outraged of the idea of writing a book about the scene. These fears weren't unwarranted, as some attempts to bring non-sceners on board became a spectacular failure. Think of gamers at demoparties.

I think the tone, the vibe of the scene matters even more than productions themselves. In my opinion, most outreach projects don't properly mirror this. They don't represent us, but a demoscene that never existed, a false image watered down for safe consumption, focusing not on the culture, but its artifacts only. In all fairness, the true beating heart of our history indeed isn't very consumable for outsiders. But that's the whole point of it! We gathered here because weren't, and still aren't normal people. This is our "safe space", and we like it unsafe.

I have to be very careful on this subject, so it does not spew outright hate against me once more:

Many or even most of "our" "historians" who hold lectures about what the demo scene is today have not even be part of it for long, and we are now reaching a level where we have demoscene historians who have not been part of the scene quoting other demoscene historians who also have not been part of the scene as an original source.

And that while the actual sceners who really have been there are still alive.

I have watched some seminars by people explaining me my childhood in the cracking scene, the BBS scene, FidoNet etc, who I have fucking never ever met on any of those, and who also did not involve anyone I had ever seen there, either.

It would be nice if those false distorted echos could wait until the generation being talked about at least is in their graves.

I guess it is not clear to some of those people cosplaying being sceners what a grave kind of cultural appropriation that is.

True.

@Krill
That’s why I wholeheartedly recommend “Too Much Fun” book by Jesper Juul. It includes the demoscene. And by the way, this is the author: https://csdb.dk/scener/?id=4069

You pirate cracker you! ;)

Now that scamp nailed the matter so perfectly, we can close the demoscene. Everybody go home!

It's fairly common for historians to talk about and analyse cultural phenomena that they themselves didn't experience. That's kind of the "idea" of history. Just saying!

Is that book (print version) available for order somewhere inside the EU?

Yes, I know what Google is, but these days the additional step of trying to find out if a shop claiming to have something in stock is legit or a scam front is annoying.

https://www.buecher.de/artikel/buch/too-much-fun/71231669

Might be legit?

ahahaha so true

I ordered from Blackwells UK. Not EU but close enough. 100% legit. If you’re asking about Jesper’s book. Sorry for this commercial break.

I wish the history of the demoscene was in books, but reality is more like this...



:]

In true scene tradition, someone should throw in a torrent link to that book or something.

Of course, how come you guys don't make the documentation of the scene that you want?

C'mon gramps, tell us another story.

@minebrandon I see you're new here. Not only you know little, you also seem to think you know everything.

@tomcatmwi I seen you contributed to absolutely zero prods, so I guess you have a excuse not to make a fucking demo about it. And whine about bullshit instead.

Hows that for free speech?

^ML!^, tomcat just has a sad and boring life and likes to troll and stir up conflict from time to time, by insulting others on the bbs or posting cheap ragebait oneliners.
It's pathetic, don't fall for it.

Ah okay, I won't :)

Just who the fuck are you kids, walking into a community not even knowing who you're talking about? You never even looked up the demoscene on Wikipedia. Never contributed anything, huh? I may not the most productive guy ever on this planet, but I didn't exactly walk through the door yesterday, like you did. Go do your homework, then come back. Protip: a Pouet account does not equal to anything.

v3nom, it's *you* who appear under pretty much every comment I make and begin howling. If you have a problem with me, come to Evoke, we can go behind that old building, and settle it like men. I may be almost 50, but won't run from you. But if you think this is a "threat", which I'm sure you do, because you're retarded, just stop screeching like a pussy, and definitely stop talking shit about me.

qed

Was that your answer, manlet?

I ask you again to stop spreading bullshit. Or if you have a problem with me, come and talk into my face. Neither is too much, is it?

Look at this topic, right here. We had a pretty civil conversation until you butted in and started insulting me. Don't fudge, you did. I gave you exactly zero reason to talk to me like this.

You seem to have no idea who I am, and how I got here. You seem to have heard a ton of those bullshit rumors somebody have been spreading about me, and love them. Have you ever bothered to ask *me* if any of it is true? No, you never did! You prefer the echo chamber you created.

Well, I could easily compile a list of all your insults towards me, my mother or other profanities towards other sceners, next to your ugly ramblings against minorities. Now physical threats. That's enough for me to know that I have zero interest talking to you.