Why is Slengpung frozen since 2020?
category: general [glöplog]
The problem:
The (actual) NON-solution:
The conclusion:
Scene is dead.
Or maybe not, at least v3nom provided some great ideas.
Especially making login (via scene id) mandatory should already reduce the privacy issues to a bearable level.
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MAJOR privacy issues aside of people putting up pictures of other people with their names attached against their consent
The (actual) NON-solution:
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put some shit on Facebook
The conclusion:
Scene is dead.
Or maybe not, at least v3nom provided some great ideas.
Especially making login (via scene id) mandatory should already reduce the privacy issues to a bearable level.
sounds great! you all do that :)
lol i used facebook because sceners are boomers and are already doing that. It also has the possibility to have your name removed or the whole photo removed if you don't like it (if you have an account ofcourse)
but yeah, good luck, gargaj is probably happy you and venom want to take it off his hands t$!
but yeah, good luck, gargaj is probably happy you and venom want to take it off his hands t$!
disclaimer: IANAL
In the light of GDPR ways for deletion of content (right to be forgotten) must be implemented and personality rights (Recht am eigenen Bild) must be cleared before upload (as Gargaj pointed out) - not to mention copyright ;) . This is critical and action points (i.e. how to deal with old pictures) should be identified. Who has time/expertise to manage this?
Scene ID login would be cool (also to restrict automated crawling / AI training).
I favor slengpung over facebook/discord (e.g. #revision-photo).
cheers
In the light of GDPR ways for deletion of content (right to be forgotten) must be implemented and personality rights (Recht am eigenen Bild) must be cleared before upload (as Gargaj pointed out) - not to mention copyright ;) . This is critical and action points (i.e. how to deal with old pictures) should be identified. Who has time/expertise to manage this?
Scene ID login would be cool (also to restrict automated crawling / AI training).
I favor slengpung over facebook/discord (e.g. #revision-photo).
cheers
Truth be told, copyright and privacy laws were in effect since at least the late 90s - early 00s in most European countries. It was just nobody really paid attention or gave a shit about them, since no one made a fuss about their data being online. GDPR only made things worse, and the whole discussion about it, made the average Joe realize their data were used for pro$it. :)
I like v3noms ideas, but i would pled for "all faces blurred until there is explicit consent to deblur", not just requiring consent for getting tagged.
I don't think it's a nice thing to upload pictures of people without asking them before, regardless of the laws.
I don't think it's a nice thing to upload pictures of people without asking them before, regardless of the laws.
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personality rights (Recht am eigenen Bild) must be cleared before upload
Since you mention the German law, it is important to mention that there are sevral exception to this; in particular if you take pictures at a public event (which a demoparty is, probably without much doubt) there is no need to ask for consent. I'm sure that legislation in other European countries is similar. Otherwise event photographers would be pretty much out of jobs, which evidently they are not.
I think it's important to not strife for perfection here. Otherwise the state of the website will stay frozen for another 4 years. As mentioned several times before, making the site login-only would already solve the most obvious privacy issues. Especially if you consider the alternatives (Facebook etc.). Next you can think about easier ways to ask for a picture to be removed (which is / was already possible, you just had to ask). Optimally, someone would step up to take up maintainership from Gargaj. You'll have my support once I can upload pictures again. ;)
Many years ago I have send the people behind Slengpung a lot self scanned photos and they were not published. And also I did never get any reply why not. Tried to contact them, no reply again so I had to give up. Of course I did not to send anything to anybody again, sad but true.
Don't get me wrong. I like Slengpung in some aspects, there are a lot nice memories saved for a long time. But on the other hand from the start it has shown us endless many pictures from a hand full of sceners you did already knew very well, because you had already seen pics of them in each and every possible gesture before. Okay, if it's only for this elite club, we have to take it as it is.
Don't get me wrong. I like Slengpung in some aspects, there are a lot nice memories saved for a long time. But on the other hand from the start it has shown us endless many pictures from a hand full of sceners you did already knew very well, because you had already seen pics of them in each and every possible gesture before. Okay, if it's only for this elite club, we have to take it as it is.
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I like v3noms ideas, but i would pled for "all faces blurred until there is explicit consent to deblur", not just requiring consent for getting tagged.
And how about genitals?
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Many years ago I have send the people behind Slengpung a lot self scanned photos and they were not published. And also I did never get any reply why not. Tried to contact them, no reply again so I had to give up. Of course I did not to send anything to anybody again, sad but true.
Don't get me wrong. I like Slengpung in some aspects, there are a lot nice memories saved for a long time. But on the other hand from the start it has shown us endless many pictures from a hand full of sceners you did already knew very well, because you had already seen pics of them in each and every possible gesture before. Okay, if it's only for this elite club, we have to take it as it is.
Have you even read this thread?
If the current situation on the "Innerwebz" make the maintenance of a site like Slengpung a (legal) liability and subject to potential lawfare as well as corporate datamining, then chuck the whole kit and caboodle.
It was fun while it lasted.
It was fun while it lasted.
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That would suck for all sceners who passed away and those that will in the future but never logged in.I like v3noms ideas, but i would pled for "all faces blurred until there is explicit consent to deblur", not just requiring consent for getting tagged.
Welp.
Since reading this thread, I started writing a prototype of what Slengpung could be. Been at it for two days now and it's getting of the ground.
The most critical feature is obviously that you need to authenticate to see anything inside. This would be Scene ID. Once inside, and after your sceneid account is linked to the slengpung account, you have the choice to remove any or all your tags, should you wish to do so. I have future plans too, but let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet.
On the backend, this is a Django, which means that uploads are easy to handle and admin priveleges are easy to hand out and delegate.
On the frontend, it's a new Bootstrap, which makes using the site with mobile devices easier, and has the all-important dark mode too.
If this gets a resounding "boo" from the community, I have no problem whatsoever to abandon this. This is a fun project and these past two days have just flown by coding this. That being said, it's only two days and if I need to send this to /dev/null, I wont feel too bad about spending too much time on this.
Heres a few redacted screenshots.
Since reading this thread, I started writing a prototype of what Slengpung could be. Been at it for two days now and it's getting of the ground.
The most critical feature is obviously that you need to authenticate to see anything inside. This would be Scene ID. Once inside, and after your sceneid account is linked to the slengpung account, you have the choice to remove any or all your tags, should you wish to do so. I have future plans too, but let's not get ahead of ourselves just yet.
On the backend, this is a Django, which means that uploads are easy to handle and admin priveleges are easy to hand out and delegate.
On the frontend, it's a new Bootstrap, which makes using the site with mobile devices easier, and has the all-important dark mode too.
If this gets a resounding "boo" from the community, I have no problem whatsoever to abandon this. This is a fun project and these past two days have just flown by coding this. That being said, it's only two days and if I need to send this to /dev/null, I wont feel too bad about spending too much time on this.
Heres a few redacted screenshots.
I like where this is going :3
if we are truly concerned about GDPR then disabling uploading of new pictures but keeping the old pictures and site as-is does not really help making things much more compliant. nowadays the "solution" seems to be that we just have pictures scattered in instagram/facebook/random individuals' websites which is a bit sad from cultural heritage perspective :)
i'd love to see Slengpung back in action! also kudos to T-101 for a nice new site proto and to v3nom for good ideas how to make it more privacy-aware.
maybe some other points in getting new photographs in to the database in a more GDPR compliant fashion would be:
- demoparties should more explicitly mention, if they don't already do so, that pictures may be taken during events that may then be uploaded to social media / slengpung or similar.
- when one takes photographs with recognizable individuals there should be a consent from the people. when one uploads pictures they should acknowledge that they have (verbal) consent from all the individuals in the batch of pictures
- individuals should be able to withdraw their consent which then means delinking handle from the picture, redacting faces, cropping picture and/or removing picture completely
i'd love to see Slengpung back in action! also kudos to T-101 for a nice new site proto and to v3nom for good ideas how to make it more privacy-aware.
maybe some other points in getting new photographs in to the database in a more GDPR compliant fashion would be:
- demoparties should more explicitly mention, if they don't already do so, that pictures may be taken during events that may then be uploaded to social media / slengpung or similar.
- when one takes photographs with recognizable individuals there should be a consent from the people. when one uploads pictures they should acknowledge that they have (verbal) consent from all the individuals in the batch of pictures
- individuals should be able to withdraw their consent which then means delinking handle from the picture, redacting faces, cropping picture and/or removing picture completely
am I remembering wrong or where there at one point a slengpung design with an actual pung, slenging as good as it could (or should?). cant seem to find it on wayback.
oh nm there it is
T-101 that looks great!
A small update. Coded another day and the basic functionability is there, ie. browsing and searching images and following links to users and parties.
It should be noted that I've gone to great lengths to keep all the original id's as they were. Meaning that the same photo id, group id, party id and user id all match with what is on the current site. Those were some fun parsers to write, as there are gaps in the auto-incrementing id's from the origin.
I've also already made mechanisms that allow the user to remove their tags from the photo textfield, and I have planned a feature that users can also be excluded from search results. This would be a setting that the user can set for themselves.
There are some challenges with some of the older images being broken in the eyes of Pillow (python image processing package). Also there are some of the earlier images that are just missing. I can now confirm that the first 300 images work, and when I get to 1000 images or so, I could put a password protected test version online for peeps to take a look at. In a read-only state.
This is still fun, but the things I've done so far have been trivial. Now we start to tread on the minutae and specifics.
It should be noted that I've gone to great lengths to keep all the original id's as they were. Meaning that the same photo id, group id, party id and user id all match with what is on the current site. Those were some fun parsers to write, as there are gaps in the auto-incrementing id's from the origin.
I've also already made mechanisms that allow the user to remove their tags from the photo textfield, and I have planned a feature that users can also be excluded from search results. This would be a setting that the user can set for themselves.
There are some challenges with some of the older images being broken in the eyes of Pillow (python image processing package). Also there are some of the earlier images that are just missing. I can now confirm that the first 300 images work, and when I get to 1000 images or so, I could put a password protected test version online for peeps to take a look at. In a read-only state.
This is still fun, but the things I've done so far have been trivial. Now we start to tread on the minutae and specifics.
T-101: You rock! It's great to see that someone is working on getting a new version of Slengpung done.
If you want hosting for it, you know where to knock :)
If you want hosting for it, you know where to knock :)
Code is nice but it's not addressing the main problems - are you prepared to handle the deluge of pictures colliding against deluge of takedown requests? Do you have the staff?
I like how every project in the demoscene nowadays must be in a near professional level to be greenlit by the community. :P
I made my points clear why in my first post.
I'm happy to help with the moderation/maintenance.
as if there would be hundreds of requests per day
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are you prepared to handle the deluge of pictures colliding against deluge of takedown requests
as if there would be hundreds of requests per day
t-101: have you considered not copying over the existing database 1:1 but letting folks submit or greenlight their own photos on an individual basis, possibly via an automated process? that way you could never be accused of publishing photos you don't have permission for, now or in the future
