pouët.net

branch: "Proof the moon is made of cheese." OMG, YOU'RE SO STUPID! EVERYONE KNOWS THE MOON IS MADE OF CHEESE, THERE IS NO NEED FOR PROOF!!!111 ALL YOU NEED IS TO BELIEVE IN OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!

natalia: some people say the venlo meetings are the first demoparty. but it depends largely on definition of demoparty. is it an event that had a demoscene release being premiered there for distribution? an official compo announced on the invitation? there were other events before venlo meetings where people traded cracked games with intros, and i'm sure a lot of those trades were first released at those events. so if the crack intro is considered a demo, then those events could also be considered first demoparties. :S

psenough: I mean 'the pure demoparty' or ehm...'modern demoparty'? with 'demos', not only cracked games with intros anymore...

This is an interesting subject, I have no firsthand knowledge but I decided to look for old C64 demos on csdb.dk.

Here’s an old one: according to the CSDB data, ”Crazy Demo” by Norwegian Crackware Company was released in 1985. It has scrollers, self-made graphics, and the coder refers to it as a ”demo” in the scroller (he’s still coding on the 64).

It doesn’t fulfill all criteria though, the group had two members but the other member doesn’t seem to have worked on any demos.

There’s a second N.C.C. demo from 1986 called ”Beret demo” but there are no more demos under this group, at least in CSDB.

But I agree with 4mat, I think it’s likely the first demo (on the 64) is a music rip or such, or something created by a Compunet/computer club group.


Although the criteria would probably exclude many of the Compunet demos, at least from what I've seen.

I don't think it's impossible to meet the requirements as stated. It's certainly possible for someone to disagree with the requirements, or suggest changes, but they should fairly accurately yield the first prod that turned cracktros into demos, spread for their own sake.

Natalia: this should be when the demoscene started; as long as there are group names and handles credited that connect it to the current and continuing demoscene. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. :)

cute, but what? :)

As far as i remember, the guys in RADWAR were among the very first to do intro/demo/musicdisk stuff "besides" cracking and even started their own party series and also had some of the most important effect firsties like open-border-scrolling and even interlace on the c64, i believe. http://radwar.com/?Story_Of_Radwar . So the inception of something like a preconcerted competition among a number of people, namely graphics-effects coders, which then lead to the formation of what today has become a mainly "legal" demoscene, is located between 1985 and 1986.

Further reading for the interested: https://codebase64.org/doku.php?id=base:demo_world_records_and_world_firsts

maybe one can start by trying to locate the first party where there was a demo competition.
then see if anything older pops up!

Demo parties started way after the demoscene was already established and demos being released. I'm honestly surprised so many people in the scene don't know this. But then again I'm an old fart :)

obviously there were demos before parties, otherwise why make compos at all?
tracking the first party is just a starting point, to work backwards

I have this foggy memory that in the 90s, i think it was Sun'n'Fun Conference II in Hellenthal (on the way to which i met Coolcat^TRSi on the train) that the party itself was labeled a computerparty or something, but actually that was just a cover-up for the actual cracking scene meetup and exchange. There was a videoscreen. But i do not remember (except for a 4th hand copy of Braindead aka Buried Alive) if there was actual demo content shown there. But a Band played, later on. And staff was wearing large coffee filters as hats. And it was very hot.

Oh i just remembered, the CeBit in Hannover was a general "Enthusiast" meeting point where also people outside the cracker context would meet. And in 1992 i found out there have been parties associated with the CeBit Commodore presence. 5 years late, as i just found out:
http://www.pouet.net/party.php?which=1328&when=1987
After that, the term "demo contest" came up...

Note to pouet: why is it, the list of parties cannot be sorted by year/date?

- "demoscene" was not how they called it in the beginning. you'll have to forward to amiga times to find that separation being widely used. oldfarts like me still refer to it as "computerscene" because its really that, and in the oldfart platform world there isnt that much of a distinction either (still many groups do both, openly)
- it was all "copyparties" or plain "computerparties" in the beginning (say the first half of 80s). "demoparty" was coined much later, i'd guess not until '88/'89
- the "must have credits" part makes giving an answer to the OP extremely awkward. because you know, back in the days, a lot of demos didnt have credits. there were simple things like a tune playing and sprites bouncing around the screen - and that stuff DID spread like hell (mostly originated on compunet). also we called it "demo" already :) (really, anything that wasnt a game or a copyprogram was "demo" basically =P) following this requirement seems arbitrary. "must have two members mentioned" is just arbitrary - can a single person not make a demo? bs
- the "must be linked to a demoscene, not a crackerscene" is just complete bolloks. in 80s those demos were likely made by a cracker group (or: a group that also releases cracks) and all distribution was done by the pirates basically. as said, the scenes were the same thing. if you want this, again forward to amiga days.

i already mentioned piccolo mouso in the other thread i think - which certainly qualifies as a "demo".

i think what you really want is ask some ppl who were active ~1985 about what exactly they called "demo". and then you can build on that. (and i am sure you will hear "piccolo mouso" a few times :))

what groepaz said

After reading the rules to this quest, which i originally ignored, and as an oldfart of the C64 days, and what groepaz confirmed from my specualtion, the biggest problem here are the rules, which must have been made by someone who simply was not active in the time before 1996, when the internet was widely accessive and copying disks became obsolete, therefore making it possible to enjoy computerism without any game context.

Thus there cannot be a demoscene demo that was made outside of the context of the beginnings of demomaking, because it would have been mandatory to address itself to an existing audience (or else there would be no need to make one) and the first mainstream computer enthusiast scene was gaming oriented. So. The closest, detached from gaming context and only there to amuse, with credits and spawning continuous work might actually be on this disk:
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=59505

And we're surely not looking for first coding steps on '70s unorganized USA-computer hobbyists, right? The Demoscene started after 1986. Thats a historical fact. I would even say, the real, purely legal demoscene must have started in the mid-90s. Probably making Melon Dezign the first pure Demogroup. (I remember thinking - they do not crack, they do not advertise... why do they do this?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melon_Dezign

Should my blabbermouth have lead me into a trick question? The rules were made by Photon who was a member of Scoopex :-D You're not by coincidence looking for Scoopex to having released the first prod to meet your rules, right? :-D

er, the demoscene started earlier than 1986

Melon the "first pure demogroup"? That's such a ludicrous claim it must be taken straight out of the Freax vol.1 book. Not only were they predated by dozens upon dozens of "pure demogroups" (including ones the founding members were in before), they also started off as a subgroup of a cracking group making crack intros for them.

Not sure if trolling or smoking crack.

I too have opinions that are so important for people to hear that I share them without first checking whether I'm actually making a worthwhile contribution to the topic

What break said in latest comment.

And Photon surely knows Scoopex isn't the one he is looking for, and neither is Phenomena :D

4mat: when was it? do you have some prods? (i'd really like to know)
break: i am willing to learn. which was the first pure demogroup from your view?
gasman: i believe i had understood the rules, just not the details. therefore i added some info. was it unnecessary?

Where i come from, usually solutions are proposed, aspects researched and information is gathered. And this topic is really interesting, so i thought i'd participate. Am i being naive?

Photon, as a sort of proof-by-contradiction that your rules are flawed: They would mean that recently-released productions that were made entirely by one person (e.g. Archee or Virgill) would not be considered as demos, due to the 2-member group rule.

wertstahl: go look on CSDB there's plenty from 85 and then there's music rips from before that.