pouët.net

seems hard to top what's already in here, drama-wise

have you tried using a commercial drama engine?

There's a separate category for that.

DramAnimatioN?

What. Utter. Horseshit.

The demoscene survives because people make demos. Most of the demos made today are made by people who weren't even born back when the demoscene took its first feeble steps, and they have zero connection to it. They are connected to the scene through the demos that made them interested in it.

The best (and only) way to help secure the future of the demoscene is to make demos.

and to meet up with your scene friends, laugh, have fun, explore technological possibilities and constraints, explore constraints that are NOT technological, dance, drink, take silly photos, run, draw, code, make music, sketch, fail, succeed, etc. etc.

Farfar ❤️❤️❤️

The roots are there and always will be, they won't go away and you can always get back to them, i don't get many of the ideas presented in this thread. Also, anyone is free to do whatever they want to, isn't that what demoscene is all about? Personally i maybe like 8-bit categories more than "others" but i don't have allergy to anything, and love all the good stuff in any category.

To be sure UE, Unity etc. isn't used watch only low-end demos and preferably make them yourself, that's how the oldschool is preserved anyway (and that i adore)

btw i tried Unity years ago but stopped my game when 'd have to make some code for my character to interact in any way.

Well, everyone's got a point, ends up in extreme pointless fallacy, my cat gets hungry, so... I'm going to bed.

You see all the UE engine drama, you download a 503MB demo, and then you notice it only works on nVidia cards on the readme and you end up watching it on youtube. I thought one of the major points of using something like UE was ending up with a more universal platform without the constraints of being limited to the hardware you develop on.

This is the exact same discussion as the one we had 20 years ago when 3dfx cards first came out and there was this swath of armchair commenters who were saying that if the computer does your 3d rendering for you then it's not real democoding.

It was a shitty argument then and it's a shitty argument now.

Skreb, you know better than I do that real democoding is not nly whrn you compile your code with bare hands: it's too easy to write assembly code using a compiler!!!

If I have read some posts well, some people seem to imply that commercial engines should be discouraged (or even banned) in the demoscene context since they don't match up (or even damage) the so called demoscene spirit. For me the best way to kill a community is to limit the freedom the members have within this community. People who are already members will lose interest since they can't express themselves freely and eventually they will leave. On the other hand newcomers are also discouraged since they have to do stuff in a particullar way (one that they may not relate to at all) so they will lose interest in joinning it. The best way to make a community thrive is to give members the freedom to express themselves in any way they can. In the demoscene context people must have the right to use whatever engine, tool, software they like to make anything they like to express themselves. By doing that people will be able to release more stuff, while new people will become interested in joinning, thus keeping the demoscene alive and kicking.

There are compo categories that allow literally any form of expression. This discussion is rather about the definition of the demo. Many past definitions seem to seamlessly glue "programming" to the demo so things have really been changing.



It was a different discussion because now some people really make demos without coding. It is not just about if modern technology makes things easy or not, it is about the role of coding, clearly switching the weight from coding to visuals.

(Yes, some demos have significant portions of new code while using ready-made engines)

I see gloom had a gloomy day.



So they are a bunch of cry-babies, is that's what you're saying? Let them be discouraged - If they want to do something completely different then let them live in that world.

Maybe I am in the minority, but I do not get very much excited by demos that are entirely made in tools and gives the same outputs every time, like there is no invention.

If I go to a demoparty and talk with people and some author of a demo say: I made that demo in that (or that) tool (that I have never heard of or never used), then I can listen for no more than one minute before I get bored. There is no point in having a discussion on the subject. If you ask what mathematical formula(s) was used, and the answer you get: I used this and this filter in the tool. You get no answer because he/she do not know. And if you ask, can you improve on that "filter", make it faster or tweak it in a particular way - you only get answers that are connected to the limitations of the tool. Still does not have anything to do with demomaking.

Cool to hear you're happier to see demoscene wither away than willing to have it change and adapt from its rigid roots—which of course it has done already over the years anyway. We don't make demos for you, specifically. You're not entitled to be entertained by every single production or to have engaging conversations with every single author. If you find such difficulty engaging with people any level but a regarding technical implementation the fault lies with you and your inability to broaden your horizons. This is also somewhat hilariously apparent in how you point fingers at the alleged homogeneity of "tool-made" demos but are either unable or unwilling to realize the same tropes, design ideas and effects we've employed in demos over and over since the very beginning. It's not the tools that are the issue in this regard.

And yeah, you kinda seem to be in a minority, and that makes me hopeful about the future of the scene.

noby: Do you think I would have replied to you with words such as horseshit and make you think I know what I am talking about? I am quite surprised that a guy like you who have Caero by Plant+EMF as number #1 on cdc think I do not know what I am talking about. Same goes with guys such who have Inside by CNCD as their number #1. You need to draw a line between hours of coding work in productions like these and productions made entirely in tools by a newbie who do not know the difference between bump mapping and texture mapping.

la_mettrie, rudi: I can crunch my post down a little more: if you want demoscene to thrive, people must have the right and freedom to use any engine, tool, software, library, etc. they want to express themselves. That was my point.

When you phrase it like that I'm not sure if you do either :)

OMG!

No, that's not what he said. He said they're discouraged by having to do stuff in a particullar way and will lose interest. It really is quite annoying when people like you partake in a discussion and reinterpret people's arguments upside down. Frankly, it makes you come off as a bit of a tool, if you pardon the pun.

On the topic of the demoscene ”withering away” without tools: how many newcomer productions have been made in an engine? I think there was one at assembly this year but I wouldn’t call that a huge influx of people. Maybe I just missed a bunch of them.

Of course bringing people back is nice as well, just wondering.

I heard some rumors about a recent party were a random group (not Fairlight) won with a Notch-based demo? Could be just my memory beinig slightly off though. :p

You mean revision and evoke?