kinda demographic research :)
category: offtopic [glöplog]
Trying to convince someone about something they have no interest in being convinced about, is generally a huge waste of time.
And the weight of arguments it would take to convince them is pretty much the same as the weight of the arguments they would need to convince you.
So before entering into discussions, always consider what it would take for you to change your own view on the matter. If you reach the conclusion it's impossible, then there's really no need to engage into discussions. You won't die a poorer man, just because someone else didn't share your beliefs.
And of course, that's only true to a certain extend. The moment other's opinions has direct impact on you (like herassing, violence, war etc.), by all means - discuss!
And the weight of arguments it would take to convince them is pretty much the same as the weight of the arguments they would need to convince you.
So before entering into discussions, always consider what it would take for you to change your own view on the matter. If you reach the conclusion it's impossible, then there's really no need to engage into discussions. You won't die a poorer man, just because someone else didn't share your beliefs.
And of course, that's only true to a certain extend. The moment other's opinions has direct impact on you (like herassing, violence, war etc.), by all means - discuss!
hmm.. i'm not convinced..
;) Great, then there's a reason for sharing a beer at the next given opportunity. We might not reach agreement, but at least we'll get drunk :D
tl;dr but i did see beer!
oh punqtured ^_^ I was joking, but i'll share a beer with you anywhere, anytime!!! <3
Like, literally sharing one bottle of beer with you while sitting romantically near the campfire *waggles eyebrows*
*waggles okkie's eyebrows*
Quote:
always consider what it would take for you to change your own view on the matter
Facts usually help.
gloom irl
Sorry... I did not lie to you, but it is so tempting to visit pouet.net and write a couple of lines now and then... As a matter of fact I told Magic some days ago that I would never again post to pouet, but as you see, I was not able to hold this promise...
Quote:
Sorry... I did not lie to you, but it is so tempting to visit pouet.net and write a couple of lines now and then... As a matter of fact I told Magic some days ago that I would never again post to pouet, but as you see, I was not able to hold this promise...
CAN...NOT RE....SIST POU....ET DOOOOT... NEEET. MUST POST SOMETHING!!
Quote:
by Adok:Sorry... I did not lie to you, but it is so tempting to visit pouet.net and write a couple of lines now and then... As a matter of fact I told Magic some days ago that I would never again post to pouet, but as you see, I was not able to hold this promise...
Just add Pouet to your hosts file mapped to localhost. Your productivity will soar.
Quote:
the problem is that there are very few newcomers.
After involving myself into the subject of new or young demosceners during today evening, I restore this old thread.
The problem is why there is few?
Let me share my experiences, as I believe it is not general problem but me and some of my new scene friends noticed that the newcomers are just not welcome by some very oldcomers who stick together in group since ages, especially as soon as these newcomers are noticed or are distinguished in any way regardless bad or good way.
When an oldscener makes something bad on a party then apparently it is "cool" and he finds a mutual adoration circle, when newscener does same - the same circle of adoration will consider this wrong and make lynch, considering to stop that newcomer from attending every future possible party. This attitude is noticeable among few organisers and has been criticised already.
The scene got old, there are two possible ways, either people will be allowed to have their 5 minutes and continue the scene from now on, either the scene will be closed for newcomers and will die soon with a group of mutual adoration circle farts who soon will have not many people to come.
When a newscener makes a release, actively participates in compos since his day one, then few oldsceners who since years released nothing apparently become grumpy about the newcomer, like someone forbid them to make their release and behave like youngsters and not like old whining farts. Instead of being happy that some new blood is representing (while he doesnt really do) their country.
It is important to add that amazing experience has been earned on Polish and only Polish scene.
so an old polish fart talked shit about your entry and you decided to necropost that the scene is dying instead of doing a demo about it?
Quote:
so an old polish fart talked shit about your entry and you decided to necropost that the scene is dying instead of doing a demo about it?
Exacly thats what I decided. The demo about it will come in right time.
So an individual person does something bad and a small group of peers find it cool, and you want to join in by doing the same bad thing? So those peers don't find your bad deeds cool, and that obviously sucks for you, so you blame the entire community?
I'm sorry, but there are many fundamentally wrong things in that statement. Just because some people find something 'cool', doesn't make it 'right'. Trying to join in by imitating bad deeds is also very wrong. Generalizing and rating the entire scene just based on the misbehaviour of some individuals is utterly wrong.
The are proper ways to address those issues. I don't know any details of what happened, but from what you just wrote, it definitely wasn't handled right.
I'm sorry, but there are many fundamentally wrong things in that statement. Just because some people find something 'cool', doesn't make it 'right'. Trying to join in by imitating bad deeds is also very wrong. Generalizing and rating the entire scene just based on the misbehaviour of some individuals is utterly wrong.
The are proper ways to address those issues. I don't know any details of what happened, but from what you just wrote, it definitely wasn't handled right.
Quote:
me and some of my new scene friends noticed that the newcomers are just not welcome by some very oldcomers who stick together in group since ages, especially as soon as these newcomers are noticed or are distinguished in any way regardless bad or good way.
sorry, what? When I got into the scene 10 years ago and didn't know anyone, I didn't have any trouble making friends with some "oldcomers" (what kind of word is that, anyway? :P). You're not gonna be instafriends with everyone, and you might need to deal with the scene not being a gigantic hugbox, but it's not hard to be accepted so long as you don't have a shitty attitude.
Quote:
When an oldscener makes something bad on a party then apparently it is "cool" and he finds a mutual adoration circle, when newscener does same - the same circle of adoration will consider this wrong and make lynch[...]
Maybe a small circle will, most of the rest will still think it's shit. It's more nepotism than anything.
Quote:
[...]considering to stop that newcomer from attending every future possible party. This attitude is noticeable among few organisers and has been criticised already.
I think there's a whole different set of reasons for that, most of which apply specifically to you more than it does to all newcomers in general.
Quote:
The scene got old, there are two possible ways, either people will be allowed to have their 5 minutes and continue the scene from now on, either the scene will be closed for newcomers and will die soon with a group of mutual adoration circle farts who soon will have not many people to come.
Newcomers will always be welcome, but attitudes like this don't really help making any friends. I honestly prefer a small scene with a majority of awesome people, than a big one with a lot of complaints about not being accepted within 2 hours after arriving at your first party :P
Quote:
When a newscener makes a release, actively participates in compos since his day one, then few oldsceners who since years released nothing apparently become grumpy about the newcomer, like someone forbid them to make their release and behave like youngsters and not like old whining farts. Instead of being happy that some new blood is representing (while he doesnt really do) their country.
Compared to a lot of people I know in the scene, I've not been around that long, but I've seen *plenty* of (terrible) newbie entries in compos. My own included. There's a shitton of reasons why an entry can be disqualified, but people being grumpy about newcomers is probably really fucking low on the list, if at all.
Quote:
When I got into the scene 10 years ago
I am sure you did not deal with "those" few polish who actually cannot get along with me.And two 10 years ago those people were younger 10 years and not yet grumpy. They were doing fun themselves. And orgas used to be very tolerant for their literal stupidity (proofs on pouet).
Quote:
Maybe a small circle will, most of the rest will still think it's shit. It's more nepotism than anything.
Which won't help gather new people. Like i don't care and I do whatever I choose but rather not with those for whom the nepotism is the way of dealing with others.
Quote:
there's a whole different set of reasons for that, most of which apply specifically to you more than it does to all newcomers in general.
I don't really have enough Polish newcomers who made troubles on the party to evaluate your theory but actually few of Polish people got bans forever for future parties. Mostly for nothing which deserves ban forever. And mostly before the parties were even held.
Quote:
I honestly prefer a small scene with a majority of awesome people, than a big one with a lot of complaints about not being accepted within 2 hours after arriving at your first party :P
You can always make a small meetings with people who you consider awesome and without messing with those who do not meet your personal requirements. ;P
Quote:
Compared to a lot of people I know in the scene, I've not been around that long, but I've seen *plenty* of (terrible) newbie entries in compos. My own included. There's a shitton of reasons why an entry can be disqualified, but people being grumpy about newcomers is probably really fucking low on the list, if at all.
No no, thats not about deisqualifing but about those small and poor stinky complainers who don't release anything but when someone gets high position due to lack or small amount of entries, they get butthurts instead of moving their asses and make something or just being nice and congratulate to the winners ;P
Quote:
No no, thats not about deisqualifing but about those small and poor stinky complainers who don't release anything but when someone gets high position due to lack or small amount of entries, they get butthurts instead of moving their asses and make something or just being nice and congratulate to the winners ;P
even winning entry can be shit.
hyvä poika, kakka tuli!
if you got banned from a party without a valid reason then why would you want to attend it in the future? go to other parties where orgas aren't dickheads, or create your own properly organized party.
my intuition tells me there was an actual reason for the ban and you're now playing victim though. but my suggestion still applies: only go to parties where you are accepted or organize your own.
my intuition tells me there was an actual reason for the ban and you're now playing victim though. but my suggestion still applies: only go to parties where you are accepted or organize your own.
evaluating demoscene satellites for years, and studying neurosciences give strange results to solve intellectual properties. demoscene ground is different than demoscene background ! publishing to demoscene preverses secrets, and low interests for safety.
Quote:
even winning entry can be shit.
Ain't that the truth.
