The art of connecting oldschool gear to your video projector chain at parties
category: parties [glöplog]
sesse: well maybe it was our setup or the capturing software (although im pretty sure xsplit could do 50fps at some point) but at the party we just couldnt select 50fps. imho there was 25, 30 and 60 and as oasiz pointed out if you dont select the right one the screen just stais black.
Anyway, we had a lot of other stuff to do and time to fumble around was scare, so im not saying its not possible at all...
Anyway, we had a lot of other stuff to do and time to fumble around was scare, so im not saying its not possible at all...
or did we use FMLE in the end? pretty sure we tried both but my memory isnt certain anymore
First of all: thanks for great input - all of you!
After looking into the various options we've ordered a framemeister. It kind of feels like the sweetspot, even though it still has a few quirks (like handling resolution changes relatively slow)
It also weighed high that we can use it "live" for eg. demoshows, and not only captures.
If you have valuable experiences or parameters for settings, please share!
After looking into the various options we've ordered a framemeister. It kind of feels like the sweetspot, even though it still has a few quirks (like handling resolution changes relatively slow)
It also weighed high that we can use it "live" for eg. demoshows, and not only captures.
If you have valuable experiences or parameters for settings, please share!
Even with the slow changes, you can always pass it through say.. a DVD recorder which should forcibly interlace the RGB picture (scaler won't notice the change).
This gives a slight decrease in image quality as it's no longer a 100% pure linedouble but should make it easier to process and the end result will good unless you compare them side by side.
framemeister should definitely handle everything just fine.
Remember that the dreadful screenmode delay applies to RGB hires/lowres changes (interlace vs. prog), s-video/composite is always dealt as interlaced by default.
So running an amiga through s-video should work just fine as a quick solution.
You probably will want to print out the english overlay for the remote as soon as possible and update the firmware. Remember that RGB scart is completely different from the japanese RGB21 connector, even though the connector itself is identical, pins are not. Be sure to check which one you are using or risk damage to the HW.
Also if dealing with HDMI, you might want to get a cheap $5-10 splitter that have the unfortunate feature of stripping HDCP :)
This way you should be able to connect some trickier HDCP forced devices such as the nvidia shield or some modern consoles. Also lets you capture them.
This gives a slight decrease in image quality as it's no longer a 100% pure linedouble but should make it easier to process and the end result will good unless you compare them side by side.
framemeister should definitely handle everything just fine.
Remember that the dreadful screenmode delay applies to RGB hires/lowres changes (interlace vs. prog), s-video/composite is always dealt as interlaced by default.
So running an amiga through s-video should work just fine as a quick solution.
You probably will want to print out the english overlay for the remote as soon as possible and update the firmware. Remember that RGB scart is completely different from the japanese RGB21 connector, even though the connector itself is identical, pins are not. Be sure to check which one you are using or risk damage to the HW.
Also if dealing with HDMI, you might want to get a cheap $5-10 splitter that have the unfortunate feature of stripping HDCP :)
This way you should be able to connect some trickier HDCP forced devices such as the nvidia shield or some modern consoles. Also lets you capture them.
Puryx: I take it this means I don't need to bring my LKV391N. :-)
Sesse: well, it does have VGA input - let me get back to you on that later :)
One way is to get a VGA -> component transcoder (no real quality loss) and input that through the D-terminal. Those boxes can be quite small.
Usually with VGA and above you can also resort to any cheapo VGA to HDMI box though.
The issues only really arise with the stuff you already use SCART input for.
I bought a random chinese box and it behaved the same as my 300e cypress scaler.
Didn't test against too many modes but it was working nice enough.
Usually with VGA and above you can also resort to any cheapo VGA to HDMI box though.
The issues only really arise with the stuff you already use SCART input for.
I bought a random chinese box and it behaved the same as my 300e cypress scaler.
Didn't test against too many modes but it was working nice enough.
What about 24Khz Screenmodes? 21Khz? :)
You can get a cheap $18 chinese scaler for those but those are so rare that I doubt any party will see those unless someone really wants to make a demo for a say.. mortal kombat arcade machine.
IIRC, there are some exotic computers that did output med-res but again, very rare.
It's pretty much just always the standard TV modes.
IIRC, there are some exotic computers that did output med-res but again, very rare.
It's pretty much just always the standard TV modes.
the PC 98 sold 18 Million units that has 24Khz....
How many demos though? :)
Probably enough to start lobbying for their own category on pouet! \:D/
Apparently some people report that the mini handles 24KHz as well.
But like I said, there are other very cheap solutions available if needed as you won't have to worry about interlacing with these pretty much at all.
Most of the micomsoft stuff should handle it just fine, scale or capture.
Although again, I gotta repeat what I said on that those are very rare. I have yet to see one of those machines live in Europe, let alone as a demo platform at some party. :)
Then there is RGBI as well.
Cases are so rare though that cheapo converters will suffice at parties just fine.
But like I said, there are other very cheap solutions available if needed as you won't have to worry about interlacing with these pretty much at all.
Most of the micomsoft stuff should handle it just fine, scale or capture.
Although again, I gotta repeat what I said on that those are very rare. I have yet to see one of those machines live in Europe, let alone as a demo platform at some party. :)
Then there is RGBI as well.
Cases are so rare though that cheapo converters will suffice at parties just fine.
*hopes that people don't get "good" ideas of how to cause trouble with framemeister* ;)
Gargaj: Then I'll make one in N88 Basic. :P
oasiz: Where/how can I catch you on IRC or similar? Now that we've gotten hold of the framemeister I'd love to have your advice on getting the best input and output quality :)
Just post the tips here, please.
Ok, I did some diggin' myself, and read various stuff on the web.
Luckily quite some people have experiences with the Framemeister.
There's a guy talking about hooking up the Amiga here: http://www.videogameperfection.com/2012/06/28/xrgb-mini-framemeister-a-pal-torture-test/
There's even a wiki (with suggested settings) here: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB-mini_FRAMEMEISTER
Bottom line seems to be that the RGB input on the Framemeister is to be desired. The Amiga has such an output, but unforntunately additional cables are needed to get this working.
It's possible to get a Amiga RGB port -> Scart cable. I found one here: http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=226
Framemeister comes with a converter for it's weird RGB input -> Scarrt. However it's a Japanese Scart, which is not compatible with European Scart...
So, this means either buying a Japanese Scart -> Euro Scart converter - or, getting a converter with Euro Scart that goes directly to the Framemeister. Luckily this can be found here: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/micomsoft-xrgb/european-scart-to-framemeister-xrgb-mini-converter-with-csync-lm1881-for-sale
I've ordered cables - next up is seeing how this works ;) - oh btw, the Framemeister works just great with a standard composite cable from the Amiga, however the picture is not totally sharp.
For C64, it seems like only composite is an option - I've ordered such a converter cable. for C64. Let me know if I'm wrong.
Luckily quite some people have experiences with the Framemeister.
There's a guy talking about hooking up the Amiga here: http://www.videogameperfection.com/2012/06/28/xrgb-mini-framemeister-a-pal-torture-test/
There's even a wiki (with suggested settings) here: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB-mini_FRAMEMEISTER
Bottom line seems to be that the RGB input on the Framemeister is to be desired. The Amiga has such an output, but unforntunately additional cables are needed to get this working.
It's possible to get a Amiga RGB port -> Scart cable. I found one here: http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=226
Framemeister comes with a converter for it's weird RGB input -> Scarrt. However it's a Japanese Scart, which is not compatible with European Scart...
So, this means either buying a Japanese Scart -> Euro Scart converter - or, getting a converter with Euro Scart that goes directly to the Framemeister. Luckily this can be found here: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/micomsoft-xrgb/european-scart-to-framemeister-xrgb-mini-converter-with-csync-lm1881-for-sale
I've ordered cables - next up is seeing how this works ;) - oh btw, the Framemeister works just great with a standard composite cable from the Amiga, however the picture is not totally sharp.
For C64, it seems like only composite is an option - I've ordered such a converter cable. for C64. Let me know if I'm wrong.
puryx: the best choice for c64 is s-video. there are cable adapters for that and the framemeister can take it directly. i happen to own one but it is pretty short (only a few cm), so you probably need an additional s-video cable (yes, thats what she said also).
oh and i also happen to own an amiga rgb and atari st rgb cable, both with euroscart on the other end.
tell me if you need anything of it, ill gladly tag it along.
oh and i also happen to own an amiga rgb and atari st rgb cable, both with euroscart on the other end.
tell me if you need anything of it, ill gladly tag it along.
pyrux, sorry, I missed this thread completely :)
You can catch me on IRCnet, #revision channel for instance.
Shoot me a PM and I'll check out once I see it :)
Seconding s-video, that's the best you can get with a c64.
You can catch me on IRCnet, #revision channel for instance.
Shoot me a PM and I'll check out once I see it :)
Seconding s-video, that's the best you can get with a c64.
Puryx, you've got mail. :)
More tips
- Install the newest firmware. Your Framemeister will probably have a surprisingly old firmware, and you're missing out on a lot of new and improved features and fixes.
- Turn on the scanline feature, so the screen looks more like proper 240p/288p.
- Install the newest firmware. Your Framemeister will probably have a surprisingly old firmware, and you're missing out on a lot of new and improved features and fixes.
- Turn on the scanline feature, so the screen looks more like proper 240p/288p.
wysiwtf: By any means - bring them! (worst case, we wont need them)
yzi: scanlines is a matter of taste I guess. I'd like my picture without them :)
yzi: scanlines is a matter of taste I guess. I'd like my picture without them :)
scanlines work when you actually have proper scaling multiplier on the output resolution (assuming that it wont be scaled further)
If you have non-multiplier then you might run across a moire pattern or similar issues.
This can however be a HUGE issue especially if the same feed gets split to capture/stream, if you resize it at all then in best cases it will just dim the picture and 99% of the time you just get horrible moire as it attempts to scale the picture while trying to keep that line pattern intact.
If you have non-multiplier then you might run across a moire pattern or similar issues.
This can however be a HUGE issue especially if the same feed gets split to capture/stream, if you resize it at all then in best cases it will just dim the picture and 99% of the time you just get horrible moire as it attempts to scale the picture while trying to keep that line pattern intact.
Yes. For PAL 288p, you need to set output to 576p50 to get an exact 2 multiplication factor. The Framemeister doesn't handle non-integer factors well.
IMO, scanlines are a must, if you respect the content. Oldskool PAL demos are made for 288p. Forced line doubling is ugly and non-authentic. You might just as well watch the prods on an emulator or Youtube or something. ;)
IMO, scanlines are a must, if you respect the content. Oldskool PAL demos are made for 288p. Forced line doubling is ugly and non-authentic. You might just as well watch the prods on an emulator or Youtube or something. ;)