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i'm not exactly sure how we ended up in a thread about "demoscene social issues" after some post in the revision thread from a first timer who essentially said it was a great party but personally disliked some things :)

some post after that felt a little like "oh right, i remember this and that happened to me like ages ago and i am still not over it"

not saying that when those things happened it was cool or anything, but shit happens :)

gopher: Presumably because people are increasingly thinking (rightfully or not) there _are_ issues, and that the post in question was a convenient place to start the discussion?

Gasman, btw, that very same certain Beamteam member stood outside Sunday last year when you were having your impromptu gig, and applied the very same logic to the situation as he did in 2005: "This might be a bit over the top but I'll wait until somebody actually complains before I spoil the fun".

Maybe you should all "start wearing purple" and problem solved!

So, for anyone caring ;-), my PoV on this is:

Criminal activities (stealing, robbing) - GTFO + hausverbot.
Abusive behavior (wide term, I admit) - unacceptable. The person gets a warning, if the situation repeats - GTFO.
Drinking, listening to loud music overnight, screaming, shouting, having a good bloody time - yes, please! It's a party, for crying out cloud, not a retiree gathering! But yeah, if you ask me, puking over anyone is a fucking bad thing to do, and, should that happen, be a man and apologize, clean up the shit you've done and learn from your mistakes.

With the remainder of the discussion, I'm starting to get a feeling like the minority is trying to enforce new rules that would hurt the majority of the attendants, and that's a pretty selfish thing to be doing, if you ask me. That's just as if I had said: man, kids should not be allowed to the partyplace - which is fine, cos it's just a view that we could discuss if people really cared. However, you could always rephrase that and say: "screw kids, man, it's either them or me attending!".. which is how I'm perceiving the tone of the discussion that had led to this topic.

As many people have already said: scene has always been about freedom and lack of any *cough* rules of conduct. Love and be loved. If you find anyone highly irritating, tell him/her to bugger off. That's just how you'd handle this stuff in the real life, right? Assuming you have one, which is *cough* a slightly different topic.

Quite honestly, I seriously doubt that the majority of attendants are in the for binge drinking but first and foremost for the socializing. Which work perfectly without getting completely drunk. It's difficult to say who's the majority and who's the minority here, and once again noone ever said that drinking should be banned from parties, but that there are some problematic behaviours.
FWIW most people I talk to at demoparties might have had a few beers, which is completely acceptable, but I absolutely cannot stand shitfaced incoherent people and try to avoid them.

kbi: the problem I have personally (if anyone care) is that this shit is boring for me = getting drunk + screaming. I was on few parties in total, there is no discrimination, it's just not so much fun. So if I would go now to big one, I would sleep in hotel.

However, I could dream about different kind of "demoscene" - with good music, GIRLS, wine, good art, people excited about discovering art, experimenting, digging it etc... and not just few depressed individuals excited about "umtz umtz scream clap clap" - what is it a schlager festival? But it's just me being unrealistic and I guess I am super minority here....so I GTFO;)

tomkh: I don't know what kind of parties you visit but sounds like it's definitely the wrong ones...

Havoc: as a rule of thumb, the one with at least 50% of girls

That's pretty fucking sexist if you ask me...

tomkh: So we're on two different sides of the river, because I'd have a huge problem if I were to attend a party which is more of an art gallery, rather than an event where I get to meet my folks. And that's totally fine because:

a) there are events along the lines of what you described, organised more and more frequently in Poland (well, perhaps excluding the "wine" part, but - hey! you can always organize a party on your own, you know :) )
b) nobody forces you to attend a party, where people have a different idea of spending their free time, and you happen to be finding that unacceptable. As far as I can tell, parties are not a goddamn blind dates, where people are thrown at you and you literally can't dig out of the pile of drunkards who keep coming in waves. Am I wrong here?

Saga Musix: and that's a rational thing to be doing. However, in terms of the majority of the people, I'd definitely limit them to the folks that *do actually attend* parties. Sofa sceners are out of the equation, as far as I am concerned, and the reasons are pretty clear:

a) you do not participate in the costs
b) even if we follow your rules, you're very likely to find another good reason not to spend the coin on getting your buttocks to the party.

kbi: Yes, I was talking about the majority of people at the party, and not of the sceners. I am pretty much convinced (maybe it's just my good faith in sceners but it's also my observation) that the majority of attendees usually do not end up being shitfaced and going over the limit. The few who do, though, are problematic to me.

Ha, demo-scene parties where half of the crowds are lassies? That'd imply you've never been to one! :D </troll>

I mean, seriously, I'm all heart for girls to come over and party, but nerds, sitting in them cellars, doing nothing but furiously pushing their keyboards does not sound exactly like an inviting picture to me. But I'd really hope to be wrong here ;)

In my wildest dreams I wouldn't expect girls:guys ratio would become a determinant of the quality demoparty; I always thought a more important matter is how many productions would gals & guys altogether bring.

Saga Musix: So for the sake of a number of people, whom you could probably count with your two hands, we're deciding to write down and abide the Ten Commandments. Personally, I don't mind, but do not be flabbergasted if people steer to different events.

kbi: you see, now you finally getting my point;) Now as a younger generation, we need to adapt and change the demoscene culture so dreams like this would be all possible;)

...if this means to start doing more art and actually less schlager-music+codepr0n, I would actually go for it;) But apparently, some conservative part of demoscene like it the way it is now = depressed social inept developers watching prn+scream+puke+pretend to have fun in 99% male group...not for me,sorry.

Some people call this: friendship.

I am heavily exaggerating to make a point. Friendship - sure, but why not having both?

Oh for the love of... noone is writing down anything! We're having a discussion and hoping the collective reacts to it - written rules are a very last resort in any scenario!

AKA trolling

so... demoparties need more girls so we learn to behave! fascinating conclusion!

tomkh: go visit Woodstock Festival in Poland. There number of attendees is around 500.000 each year, and f:m ratio is 50/50 (250.000 chicks, imagine that! ;). Moreover, not only a shitloads of gigs, but also all kind of workshops (art as well!) etc. All FREE. IIRC, around 10 years ago someone even organized a tent with demos playing 24/day (who did this? was it Comankh/Agony? I can't recall). Not exactly a demoparty, but definitely worth visit (I'm talking 100% serious right now. Check it out.)

Havoc: no, making a point. But it's like tilting at windmills, so there you go;) I don't see anything sexist in a hypothetical situation where two young people fascinated with a real-time art meet each other on a demoscene party and fall in affection. Now, so to say, we deliberately reject this very possibility, in the name of what? Friendship and bromance?

Agrasek: I get it, sure, and it's actually a good example - why it is possible on Woodstock, but not on a demoscene party, that would be a good starting point to analyze what we are doing wrong.