Oldschool demos getting vendor locked?
category: general [glöplog]
xeron: I plan to write some stuff on it for Displayhack but there's always something more current that takes up my time :/
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The effort needed to patch some of them to life isn't much more than making a WHDLOAD version of an older OCS demo.
That sounds like patching OCS demos is done in like 10 minutes. While that is sometimes true there are demos that require LOT of effort to run on anything else than a bog-standard 68000 A500, Hardwired is a bloody good example for that, so far I've wasted more than 100 hours on patching it and the patch is like 40% finished. Not sure about old Windows demos but I doubt you have to deal with SMC, disguised hardware address accesses, wrong blitter operations that only work by coincidence on 68000 machines, encrypted/protected code, 24-bit problems, relocating fake fast accesses to "normal" memory, direct Kickstart access and more stuff like that.
Bottom line is: patching OCS demos can be easy, more often than not it isn't though.
@StingRay: Again, a blog of the work would be something I'd love to read :)
StingRay: I never said it's easy, my point was that it's not impossible the same way patching a busted PC demo isn't impossible.
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@Gargaj:
If you kept a blog of your fixes, including all the geeky technical bits, i'd love to read it. Of course, bits of it might get repetitive, but you can always link back to previous entries and skip over ground already covered that way.
Perhaps you'll like my blog about fixing Crystal Dream before doing a video capture of it: http://scalibq.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/oldskool-demo-fixing/
Doesn't really go into detail... but I just replaced the complete initalization code for the SB routine (the version in there was horrible spaghetti code, with tons of weird bugs, that just *happened* to work on slow machines. I replaced it with code based on the original SB programming manual. Which funny enough was a lot smaller as well).
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Custom resolutions are supported by both ATI and NVIDIA control panels
Maybe for some products/chips only? Not the adapter I have anyway. :/ Throwing it in via regedit won't do much, as I don't even have the monitor attributes section in the properties pane.
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If you kept a blog of your fixes, including all the geeky technical bits, i'd love to read it.
Seconded!
Oh no, that was oldschool; dead grammar so to say. So let me modernize this, I don't want to be a necrophile:
+1
:)
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@StingRay: Again, a blog of the work would be something I'd love to read :)
I actually could write (large!) books about that topic, the only problem: patching is fun, writing about it isn't. :) Once I finished the Hardwired patch I may write something about how I patched it, no promises though.
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StingRay: I never said it's easy, my point was that it's not impossible the same way patching a busted PC demo isn't impossible.
Anything can be patched, just a matter of knowledge and how much time one is willing to spend. I still think patching OCS demos can't really be compared to patching Windows demos as one as to to deal with completely different problems on the respective platform and in my (biased of course) opinion patching old OCS demos is much harder. Out of interest though, is SMC (self-modifying code) used in Windows demos at all? Genuine question as I'd really like to know.
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Out of interest though, is SMC (self-modifying code) used in Windows demos at all?
I can't recall any unless you count executable compressors.
Gargaj: Mhmm. Apparently I just needed to reboot the driver to make the regedit'ed values work. Now alien sex clone works at least. ;)
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Hello fellow demo makers (not that I've made any demos - still working on it)
One thing that has been kinda curiousing me out about you l33t h4x0rz that make demo for totally oldschool retro retro machines: Aren't you a bit bummed out that your work is being tied to a platform no longer commercially manufactured? That many people can't even experience your demos on real hardware since they don't have access to it?
I totally get the appeal of these restricting platforms, and the possibilities when targeting fixed hardware. But I would want people to actually see my wonderful creations, which means supporting mainstream platforms? Not necrophiling around with retro hardware.
Oh, and sorry if this topic has been up before.
is this the modern way of saying 'i don't like C64 demos' ?
I used to talk to some linux guy and I was puzzled. He knew what the demoscene is but couldn't understand why we spend so much time doing this instead of porting useful applications for linux or anything else "worthy". I was puzzled because I thought geeks could at least understand. If you wouldn't understand, you would be someone mocking geeks for wasting their time instead of making money.
There's a reason why there's no demoscene on lunix...
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necrophiling with retro hardware
well, since people are still coding and releasing on any "retro" hardware (especially on C64), i think the hardware isn't "dead", so it's clearly not necrophilia or something like that.
pen and paper are way more retro hardware than any computer, but since a lot of people are still using them, it's not dead yet.
you can extend that to a lot of things, as example musicians who release track on vinyl disk are necrophiliacs too?
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He knew what the demoscene is but couldn't understand why we spend so much time doing this instead of porting useful applications for linux or anything else "worthy".
optimus: to my experience this type of geek cares only about the new version of ubuntu or firefox, they usually care only for software produced by vendors mocking everything else home made so they won't understand the general meaning of the demoscene even if they know what it is...
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I was puzzled because I thought geeks could at least understand
And that is the difference between a geek and a nerd.
For me writing on old hardware is kind of like owning a classic car, including all the annoyances and quirks that make it what it is.
Seconded!
I have very limited experience with such platforms, but for me it's the fact that it's completely separate from everything else I do with the computer. Coding demos on the PC feels too much like work (as in, related to my day job) nowadays.
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Quote:I was puzzled because I thought geeks could at least understand
And that is the difference between a geek and a nerd.
As far as I'm concerned, both of those words are slurs/insults.
is there a patched version of crystal dream ii anywhere? it always bugged me that the chessboard part just wouldn't run decently on any machine. and when computers might have become fast enough, then the borland crt unit stops the show
I think there used to be a fix tool for the borland crt but it could be not working on the CD2 executable?
But, I remember in a 486 the chessboard was smooth enough to enjoy, maybe not 70fps but.
But, I remember in a 486 the chessboard was smooth enough to enjoy, maybe not 70fps but.
the patcher doesn't work with cd2, because of exe packing
in my opinion it the chessboard part feels sluggish even on a pentium, and it is out of the line with the rest of the demo
well, nowadays nobody has vga crt displays anymore, so nothing is oldskool smooth anyway
in my opinion it the chessboard part feels sluggish even on a pentium, and it is out of the line with the rest of the demo
well, nowadays nobody has vga crt displays anymore, so nothing is oldskool smooth anyway
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Thus it would be difficult for anyone today to explain to you why there is still a point in learning a dead language such as the latin language for example considering mainstream practices such as texting.
I think you're misunderstanding where I'm coming from. I definitely get how working with these environments can be satisfying and intellectually challenging. I do see the charm in retro hardware. You figured out that I use Linux. And one of the reasons why I do that is exactly that I don't want to be dependent on any closed/proprietary environment/product. Actually I wouldn't even want to create anything that only worked on Windows because then in a way my creation would be in the fate of Microsoft.
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Ouch. As a "free software enthusiast" you need not show disrespect towards other enthusiasts or perceive them as a threat. Did you ever consider that "creative coding" might suit your needs more than democoding.
I know that my wording was a bit ... provocative. But at was in no way due to a lack of respect! I'm constantly in awe by the amazing demos that the scene has produced. Please don't misunderstand me. Why do you think creative coding would suit me better (I'm not saying you're wrong)? How do you define one in relation the other?
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Quote:necrophiling with retro hardware
well, since people are still coding and releasing on any "retro" hardware (especially on C64), i think the hardware isn't "dead", so it's clearly not necrophilia or something like that.?
You are very right that the retro hardware isn't dead. But maybe dying? One difference is that both pen, paper and vinyls can be produced by everyone and is still being produced. So if your current pen breaks you can by a new one and if it breaks in ten years you can still just go buy a new one. So there is no problem in relying on a pen to do your work.
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I wrote an article about that topic back in 1998:
Thanks for sharing! It was a good read.
