sz15
category: general [glöplog]
I have to admit, I was a bit troubled by the editorial by Novus in this issue of SceneZine.
Me too. Very good article! It's probably why so many cool and talented sceners have quit or stopped their activities too. It's true though that the harder people work the more they're criticized so they may as well just give up.
No one wants to honour them with an online chart either (hint hint pouet mods).
I guess you just need a very thick skin like me to survive in the scene or just not put too much effort into it in the first place.
No one wants to honour them with an online chart either (hint hint pouet mods).
I guess you just need a very thick skin like me to survive in the scene or just not put too much effort into it in the first place.
i wish Shane wasn't right :(
Hmm, about criticizing people.......
I could have fuckin said to Gargaj and the other Conspiracy dudes that their productions they did for the groups they was in before they formed Conspiracy sucked bigtime, and they probably did :)
Now........the scenario is that they easily could have left the scene if they got depressed by the negative critics. But the other scenario which have been a reality is that they got their act together and produced some qualitystuff.
So there are different kind of personalities...some can handle critics....and others cant.
I am aware that i hurt someone feelings about telling that what u have done is crap etc.....but then again you can`t lick everyones ass either...
So what to do? I know what to do...ban Pouet.net
I could have fuckin said to Gargaj and the other Conspiracy dudes that their productions they did for the groups they was in before they formed Conspiracy sucked bigtime, and they probably did :)
Now........the scenario is that they easily could have left the scene if they got depressed by the negative critics. But the other scenario which have been a reality is that they got their act together and produced some qualitystuff.
So there are different kind of personalities...some can handle critics....and others cant.
I am aware that i hurt someone feelings about telling that what u have done is crap etc.....but then again you can`t lick everyones ass either...
So what to do? I know what to do...ban Pouet.net
that their productions they did for the groups they was in before they formed Conspiracy sucked bigtime, and they probably did :)
YEAH THANKS :D
YEAH THANKS :D
but seriously, criticising is not the problem - it's HOW you do it.
if, say, the music sucks in a demo, you can either say
"jesus christ this was the shittiest music ever"
or
"the music was bad, pretty unimaginative samples and structures, try some more variations next time".
the latter is obviously more useful for the musician (telling him what was wrong probably motivates him more to correct his mistakes), but it takes effort for the lazyass critic to actually think it thru and write a verbose review. and that's what most critics don't do - after all saying "sux" is much more convenient, isn't it, spengler?
if, say, the music sucks in a demo, you can either say
"jesus christ this was the shittiest music ever"
or
"the music was bad, pretty unimaginative samples and structures, try some more variations next time".
the latter is obviously more useful for the musician (telling him what was wrong probably motivates him more to correct his mistakes), but it takes effort for the lazyass critic to actually think it thru and write a verbose review. and that's what most critics don't do - after all saying "sux" is much more convenient, isn't it, spengler?
If the musician doesnt know what he did wrong he should stop making music.
Every artist has to learn to deal with criticism. Its either that or hide all your art in your attic and then someone just dumps it in the estate sale when you die. You die without ever having heard any criticism of your work, but you also die unknown and more importantly without the insight into improving your art that the criticism may have brought out.
When I organized Pilgrimage 2003, the useful feedback that I did get was from people who attended. They had specific and constructive criticism. All the rest was discardable without consequence.
The difference between a true "critic" and a complainer is the difference between making specific and constructive observations on how your pieces would have worked better (for the critic, mind you; at some point its all subjective) and just saying "sux". Spengler is hard to please and its no small achievement to make a demo like k-wak which gets his "thumbs up", but when he thumbs down its often not much value to the artist when seeking advice on how to improve the production. Of course, spengler thumbs down so often that it probably gets boring for him to write a lengthy review of why a production sucked. If he did, people would just complain that he's an optimus!
For whatever reason, the demoscene is rife with complainers and there are few constructive critics.
When I organized Pilgrimage 2003, the useful feedback that I did get was from people who attended. They had specific and constructive criticism. All the rest was discardable without consequence.
The difference between a true "critic" and a complainer is the difference between making specific and constructive observations on how your pieces would have worked better (for the critic, mind you; at some point its all subjective) and just saying "sux". Spengler is hard to please and its no small achievement to make a demo like k-wak which gets his "thumbs up", but when he thumbs down its often not much value to the artist when seeking advice on how to improve the production. Of course, spengler thumbs down so often that it probably gets boring for him to write a lengthy review of why a production sucked. If he did, people would just complain that he's an optimus!
For whatever reason, the demoscene is rife with complainers and there are few constructive critics.
i think most of us have thumbed down ümlaut :)
that's ümlaüt for you, mister :D
Shane wrote:
Whenever you are in public, you'll be exposed to criticism. There are two types of criticism: constructive (rational) and non-constructive (irrational) one.
Constructive criticism can be dealt with rationally. It may lead to discussion in which arguments meet counter-arguments.
Irrational criticism consists mostly of four-letter-words. There are two options to face it: Either you get dragged into discussions with such people - then you really need a "thick skin" because they won't react on rational arguments. Or you simply ignore these people. It's like banning people on IRC.
Quote:
I guess you just need a very thick skin like me to survive in the scene or just not put too much effort into it in the first place.
Whenever you are in public, you'll be exposed to criticism. There are two types of criticism: constructive (rational) and non-constructive (irrational) one.
Constructive criticism can be dealt with rationally. It may lead to discussion in which arguments meet counter-arguments.
Irrational criticism consists mostly of four-letter-words. There are two options to face it: Either you get dragged into discussions with such people - then you really need a "thick skin" because they won't react on rational arguments. Or you simply ignore these people. It's like banning people on IRC.
Funny article... it talks about the bad things of chritisism. It lists 7 suggestions one could do in the scene:
reviewing site
tips for how to track better
list of good new tracks
tracking competition
public-voting compo
an archive
writing music and releasing tracks
Quite funny that five of these suggestions are about commenting or rating other sceners work. :-)
I'd say: Go for the last one; "writing music and releasing tracks". Then there will be one more supporting the scene and one less chritisising.
Chritisism, even fair chritisism, is soo hard to take, if you have done something creative. I know. But, usually there is something to learn from it.
reviewing site
tips for how to track better
list of good new tracks
tracking competition
public-voting compo
an archive
writing music and releasing tracks
Quite funny that five of these suggestions are about commenting or rating other sceners work. :-)
I'd say: Go for the last one; "writing music and releasing tracks". Then there will be one more supporting the scene and one less chritisising.
Chritisism, even fair chritisism, is soo hard to take, if you have done something creative. I know. But, usually there is something to learn from it.
Chrietisism?! WOOHOO !!!
Quote:
If the musician doesnt know what he did wrong he should stop making music.
This is the most stupid thing I've ever heard. I mean for example stuff I did year ago, sound pretty crap now and I know stuff I do now will sound crap next year. I've heard many professional artists say that if the stuff you made a year ago does not sound/seem crap, then something is really wrong and you're not making any progress since then. Which is of course a bad thing.
havoc: Phlease lhearn tho chuote chorrecthly!
Why do people always take things so damn seriously??
When I released my first intro stefan wrote "Seriously, quit the scene, you suck.". I didn't find that even remotly annoying, to be honest I found that hillarious! Atleast he was honest and offcourse I did know that it sucked ( Well, even I suck.. on coding that is! ), I'll even buy him a beer if I ever meet him again for his honest comment! :-)
I do think that people must learn not to think to much of them selfs (just because your mother likes your newest effect it doesn't mean that everyone else will) and not to take the response too seriously. OK, if your email inbox is flooded with "FUCK YOU LAMER!" and such, I do understand that people get sad and angry but here? No way!
When I released my first intro stefan wrote "Seriously, quit the scene, you suck.". I didn't find that even remotly annoying, to be honest I found that hillarious! Atleast he was honest and offcourse I did know that it sucked ( Well, even I suck.. on coding that is! ), I'll even buy him a beer if I ever meet him again for his honest comment! :-)
I do think that people must learn not to think to much of them selfs (just because your mother likes your newest effect it doesn't mean that everyone else will) and not to take the response too seriously. OK, if your email inbox is flooded with "FUCK YOU LAMER!" and such, I do understand that people get sad and angry but here? No way!
Chrietisism!!!!!!!!!! DO NOT MESS WITH THE CHRIET!!!
JESUZ CHRIET!!1
criticism, either constructive or destructive, i can live with. though it is crucial to realize that not every critic is a good critic; after all, not every artist is a good artist either.
now, i'm one to firmly oppose the often-cited statement that "if you can't do it better yourself, just shut up". this is pure bullshit. you don't need to be a gifted actor to be able to see (and state truthfully) that your average soap opera features awful actors. you don't need to be a celebrated painter to discover that van gogh was brilliant either. everyone is entitled to have and speak their opinion in such matters.
but that doesn't mean that every such criticism is good. just like good actors or painters, good critics are few and far between. voicing your opinion about a work of art is one thing, but what makes a good critic is the ability to really get into the mindframe of an artist, really understanding what a work of art is about, and only from there on starting to judge the work - and do the latter precisely. yes, "i didn't like the music so next time make it better" is not constructive criticism, it's just worthless :)
so the problem with critics, just as with everything else, is finding the ones who are able to get past the obvious and truly understand what it all is about.
and special note for demoscene critics, "getting past the obvious" is not the same as "getting past the technical". while the latter is rather popular among some people, it is fundamentally ignoring a significant part of the whole.
now, i'm one to firmly oppose the often-cited statement that "if you can't do it better yourself, just shut up". this is pure bullshit. you don't need to be a gifted actor to be able to see (and state truthfully) that your average soap opera features awful actors. you don't need to be a celebrated painter to discover that van gogh was brilliant either. everyone is entitled to have and speak their opinion in such matters.
but that doesn't mean that every such criticism is good. just like good actors or painters, good critics are few and far between. voicing your opinion about a work of art is one thing, but what makes a good critic is the ability to really get into the mindframe of an artist, really understanding what a work of art is about, and only from there on starting to judge the work - and do the latter precisely. yes, "i didn't like the music so next time make it better" is not constructive criticism, it's just worthless :)
so the problem with critics, just as with everything else, is finding the ones who are able to get past the obvious and truly understand what it all is about.
and special note for demoscene critics, "getting past the obvious" is not the same as "getting past the technical". while the latter is rather popular among some people, it is fundamentally ignoring a significant part of the whole.
oh, and side note, if you are absolutely totally unable to stand any criticism, if you can't live with less than universal popularity...
...then start digging your grave and lie down to die.
really, there's absolutely no choice you'll make or not make that will in some way or the other upset someone else.
...then start digging your grave and lie down to die.
really, there's absolutely no choice you'll make or not make that will in some way or the other upset someone else.
word
werent we all dead already anyways?
Quote:
"the music was bad, pretty unimaginative samples and structures, try some more variations next time".
the latter is obviously more useful for the musician
Same difference, you're still slamming the guy. And he probably wishes to grant you the honor of banging your mom all the same.
hehe, im forced to agree with shifter.
i guess its human nature to take criticism bad, even if its meant in a somewhat positive way.
i guess its human nature to take criticism bad, even if its meant in a somewhat positive way.
