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quisten: i think that was for Optimus

If I so much as just think about the amount of work involved in making a 64kb that would live up to any proper standards it makes me NOT want to do it. An approach might be adding a separate runtime and datapaths to an existing demotool.

Or just being very clever. But still, it's a lot more to chew on than 4k, or a "medium pimping" demo.

Ferris:


And the fact is that this "epic mass of shit" is still there.

I'm not belittling Elevated, we all know it's fantastic; just saying that even IQ himself said it wasn't good enough for 64k :) . That says something about the expected quality standard the genre has.

i dont think anyone is belittling Elevated. i was there with the audience when it was shown. :)

A lazy coder can make a 4k demo (unless he's as lazy as me)... This explains the success of them i think.

Look at those:
http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=54530
http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=56866
http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=57445

I think a coder has lots of fun doing one of this: the algorithm is interesting, you know you'll see the end of the project, not much polishing is needed. But turning this into 64k would need a huge amount of work, because coders know you can put so much in 64k.

hey shithead, lazy coders dont make shit :P

How about this: if people stopped thinking of 64k intros as small demos, but instead started viewing them as large 4k intros, then I'd think we would have something to build on. Ferris and BoyC both touched on this point. If that was the mindset people had when making a 64k, AND it was acceptable by the audience, I think it could just make the genre worth keeping alive.

I for one would love to see more 4k ideas sprinkled into a 64k, with better music to boot.

gloom the problem with that is that it has been demonstrated many times (last time this Saturday) that 64ks _can_ be seen as small demos, or even as big ones. Once that happened the expectations from the demo compo came down into the 64k category (this is actually one of the things I like about it, but for many people it's discouraging).

The same thing has happened with 4ks: a raised bar in expected quality - but it's still possible to throw together a 4k just for the fun of it and make a decent (not necessarily groundbreaking) release in a few days. But if you spend the same time on a demo or a 64k you get something that most of the time can only be called a fun prod.

The main reason is to have fun, right? Too interpret it as a challenge for yourself (given that you actually do something creative). Do something YOU think is rad, give a flying fuck about what everyone else thinks. If you have fun doing it, and if you push yourself to the limit it will most likely be pretty damn cool, 4k, 64k or a demo. If not everyone agrees, at least you had a blast making it.

It's very hard to get off your ass and do something, if you try to match the high expectations for #1 prods in every category, it takes the fun out of it (for me personally). Do YOUR thing, find your own limit, then push it.

That's only my personal thoughts, ofcourse, everyone else is entitled to their own :)

@quisten: although i agree with what you say, i don't agree with the way you say things...

@quisten: i mean, you must have an anal fixation or something with all those "shit", "fuck" and "asses" you speak of...

baah: +1

quisten: i agree with what you say, no matter how you say it...

@baah: ey dude, it was a bold (jokeish?) statement you made, and it just felt right to answer it that way...

but okay, swearing isn't wasn't the best way for getting the point across, that's your point right? (btw, do you seriously relate "fuck" primarily to anals??)

a Carmack 64K will look like:

64k is on that dangerous line these days where you either get 'couldve been a 4k, you suck' or 'seems like a demo, you rule!!!' where the latter requires 40x more effort and/or skills/experience than the first.

@baah: btw, http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=50126 ;)

I was quite serious on my 2011-08-08 17:24:15 message. I can admit my opinions are not very clever, but did i deserve to be called shithead !?

As a matter of fact, i try to swear as little as possible in real or virtual life, for me it never feels like the correct way to say things. Oh, and you're right in respect to "fuck"!... (it seems i often agree with you, whatever the way you say it! ;)

@maali: you're a joker! :)

Ooooooooops...
I mean @quisten: you're a joker!

Maali is not... err... maybe he is, but what he says at 21:54:48 is worth gold and i made a mistake. I hope he won't think i'm a shithead!

rudi: i did not say a 4k is not hard to do, or that it doesn't have its merit... it's just that SO much is expected from a 64k nowadays that I wouldn't know where to start... a 4k however, is just creating ONE effect, add some cheesy sawtooth synth arpeggios, and (loved how gloom expressed it), milk it for 5 minutes adding small variations.

Of course, that effect could be hard to do, but it's just not comparable to what is expected from a good 64k today.

Again, that's just my oppinion, coming from someone who hasn't done any modern production at all

hihi quisten has an anal fixation ^_^

I was saying I am more interesting to the vast ammounts of 64k for procedural content compared to the 4k even if I will be doing 4k if I am lazy but dream to do a 64k. Though, I'd love to do a 4k dos in pure asm soon, because I miss those, soft rendering, counting every byte of your opcodes, even though sometimes I prefer speed optimizing than size optim, but everytime someone talks without tldr it goes an optimus reference into memory.

And there I was drunken, wasn't this thread about JC?