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I'm sort of sorry I brought up this "you can do better" thing in cncd: blakn comment. Let me gather up the mess a bit.

Let's say you do an average demo, which is more or less ok even it has nothing really special. Those demos come and go, but some people are cursed with a thing called past - If you have done better in the past (when no one could overrun you with their dancetracks) you're suddenly flamed. "Lazy fuckers! You did X! Why didn't you went to Y but jumped back into Q!?!"

Another example: Let's say Halcyon makes a comeback. With Saint and Hplus being one of the best prods in of the late 90's I have a strong feeling it doesn't matter how good their next demo/intro would be. People still want their Hplus^2 and will keep replying blindly to each other "you can do better, you can do better".

This is actually what I was talking with 216 and some other MFX & Haujobb guys yesterday after our 2 hour demoshow (this is what we do for living nowadays..): "Why people should do always better after a while? Do a shitty demo, and after that do an even shittier one so you'll end up with so much crap you can't do worse!"

Yeah. And look what shit I enforced myself to write here.. Could do better for sure, but that's life. Give us all a break. We're human beings after all.

Well, last time I checked, no scener was being paid for making good demos. There is no TV coverage and demos are not shown in public places (clubs etc.). Furthermore, noone sells its demos.

And I LIKE that! We make demos and we watch demos for FUN. It's the purest form of creation, something can't remember seeing anywhere else. I think that we should be proud of that, people.

Many groups make demos that are not as good as some previous ones. That is OK. This is not a race, it's not a competition to show whose 'balls' are bigger. It's just a form of artistic expression, free from rules and restrictions. blakn from cncd is not bad, it's different. Perhaps cncd got bored doing colourful textures and stuff. They did blakn because that's what they felt like doing. I respect that. Sure they have done better prods, but cncd are not demo-making machines that have to live up to a certail quality standard. They, as everyone else in here are making demos for fun. So, say your opinion but always respect the others work, opinion and style.

Please, let us not become bitter and competitive like the gaming scene. It's beyond us.

NOOON SELLS ITS DEMOS? HERESY! BURN THEM!

uh
anyway, i totally agree, just do what you feel like doing, and don't care for anyone screaming "you were better before"

Or to give a more personal comment: fr08 was great, but too much work do do more than one production of this quality every few years.

MadOnion.com gets paid to make demos. :)

If noone ever cares what anyone else thinks of their work, then what is the point of presenting or releasing it? Competitions would be obsolete. We would all just churn out utter shit, because it's easy, and people would gradually lose interest. If you don't want to have to live up to a reputation, either change your identification and start anew, or don't build one up to begin with.

Yes,. I agree, demos is art, demos is fun, but it's also competition, why not? Actually,.. to tell you the truth, demos is how everyone enjoys doing them, eveyrone sees is it diferrently, and to tell you really the truth, I would like to get criticism and see what other people thing about my demo, even good and even bad, and even if someone is angry with me about my demoprods, I will just not care. At least I know that all these things can happen in the scene, I will expect any criticism, even good, even bad,. I don't really care at all as demoscene seems to me like a game where I should expect everything good or bad there comes.

What the hell I am writting here? Well,.. I don't know. Of course you are right that we shouldn't push old sceners in such a bad way because they didn't made demos like they did in the old times, but I also hope that these sceners also don't take our criticism about their production so seriously. I am just seeing all these things with fun btw,. if someone criticized me in the scene, I wouldn't really beeing pissed and I would see it with free mind...

Later,. cause I don't know if I showed you what I felt like writting...

bla. people have the right to say "you can do better", personally i was disappointed in the cncd demo from trsac. I mean it has a nice feeling to it, but it is also all the things that cncd dissed in their manifesto.

so does that make cncd rule or does it make them human?

yes. we're only human.

Competition is the spice of the scene, not its purpose. And MadOnion may be the only sceners making money out of demos, but I am pretty sure they would have been equally active and happy about it even if they were not.

Watching a new prod every now and then makes my day. Really. I prefer it *much* more than watching few big-ass productions from groups 'recognised for their long contribution to the history of the demoscene'. If it was like that we would still be talking about 9 fingers and second realities in 2001. This is US having fun, not the oscar academy awards!

my 2 cents of course! :-)

if old groups were making all the time better demos than their previous ones, the scene would be really boring since the new groups will simply not make any demos since they can't do better. so just look forward, don't look at groups individually. it's allways cool to see that new groups are beating the old respected dinosaurs : like for example alien prophets with their scene-event 2001 demo beating the purple demo.

This discussion has gone all too far (since everyone agrees on the subject :) but I'll just repeat what you can read between the lines on the previous posts.

We shouldn't blame people for doing worse than what they've done before, that would be all too exhausting, trying to create something better than your best.

That would turn having fun into work. It doesn't mean that you can't say that you don't like a certain production. If a famous group releases a demo so full of crap that you can't do worse you have the perfect right to say it out loud. But you should still respect them if they've done some cool stuff before.

As I see it, you can gain respect but you can't lose it (at least by creating crap you can't). I didn't like blkn or whatever it was called. I don't respect cncd for doing it. But I still respect them for all the cool stuff they've done (inside comes in mind first, since that's one of the rare cncd productions I can still run with my current hardware), stuff that I really enjoy watching.

Oh boy.. lotta words and I didn't even say anything. Who cares.

any update since then?

great thread revival

People Are getting paid for doing worse things then what the average demoscener do for free

I know of someone who does... Shame on you SoLo2.

But BITS didn't exist in 2001. Ah, good times.

It's been almost a decade now.

I'm doing some laundry and should go to gym later today. There, my 2cents. Use them wisely and don't spend it all instantly.

My my have times changed.

if the 10 guys who posted their 2cents 9 years ago would have put their money on a premium account instead, they would've had more than 3cents by now... HA!

Gargaj should start charging people €5 to change their handle on Pouet. We'll be rich in no time!