Risen from Oblivion by Crest & Oxyron
category: general [glöplog]
Is this prod availble anywhere on internet??? Couldn't find it but maybe i didn't look hard enough...
This is exactly what I am waiting too!
I think they haven't released it yet..
You will find it out the day they decide to release it, if you visit regurarly either www.oxyron.de, www.c64.ch or www.c64.sk
This thingie perhaps want's a real C128 I have heard,.. I hope it runs somehow in an emulator too, to be able to see it. Heh,.. if it doesn't work on emuls,. perhaps the guys who DivXed the Deus Ex Machina, could do that for this demo too,.. I was just curious to see what magic did Graham now :)
P.S. Someone told me rumors about a cool demo from Crest coming in X2001. Can't wait for that too!
I think they haven't released it yet..
You will find it out the day they decide to release it, if you visit regurarly either www.oxyron.de, www.c64.ch or www.c64.sk
This thingie perhaps want's a real C128 I have heard,.. I hope it runs somehow in an emulator too, to be able to see it. Heh,.. if it doesn't work on emuls,. perhaps the guys who DivXed the Deus Ex Machina, could do that for this demo too,.. I was just curious to see what magic did Graham now :)
P.S. Someone told me rumors about a cool demo from Crest coming in X2001. Can't wait for that too!
I'm not sure I'm looking forward to it. Crest released a new demo a month or so ago, but if you try it on an emulator, it just shows a screen with a nasty message like "stick your fucking emulator up your arse!" That's just plain rude and childish, there's no need for the c64 scene to be elitist when their releases are so hard to come by these days.
Phoenix,
It's not rude and childish. It's about seeing your prods getting crippled on the emulator. If you've seen IFLI on the emu, you've never seen IFLI. If you heard SIDtunes on the emu and wondered why people used to like this music, I'd wonder too.
We know that many people watch c64 prods on the emulator, but don't ask us to put the emu before the c64, that would be betraying our own platform. Maybe you'd like to ask the Amiga groups to code their prodz in terms of the Amiga emulators, too?
As for the Crest demo, it was implemented this way because Xbow used illegal opcodes, unsupported by emulators (or so I've been told). He coded sideborder copperbars and as everyone with a little c64 background knows, this requires insane timing.
Vince.
It's not rude and childish. It's about seeing your prods getting crippled on the emulator. If you've seen IFLI on the emu, you've never seen IFLI. If you heard SIDtunes on the emu and wondered why people used to like this music, I'd wonder too.
We know that many people watch c64 prods on the emulator, but don't ask us to put the emu before the c64, that would be betraying our own platform. Maybe you'd like to ask the Amiga groups to code their prodz in terms of the Amiga emulators, too?
As for the Crest demo, it was implemented this way because Xbow used illegal opcodes, unsupported by emulators (or so I've been told). He coded sideborder copperbars and as everyone with a little c64 background knows, this requires insane timing.
Vince.
Quote:
It's not rude and childish.
I'd say that the way they convey the message is just that. Rude and childish.
Why don't they work with the emulator makers to make them better then? What's wrong with more people wanting to see your productions? All I know is, if a C64 guy wanted to make an emulator that ran PC demos at 1 frame per every 10 seconds, I wouldn't waste time coding a screen that checked for specific bytes and said "fuck off and die, c64!". Let them run it, if they want to they'll watch it on the original machine someday. I've seen DXM on the original, the music is slightly better, the colors are worse, and it's a flickery 50hz :). BTW, on CCS64/Win, it does display "Thanks for using a real C64!". Heheh.
P.S. No bad feelings toward Crest. I enjoyed DXM quite a bit and just want to see their latest stuff, not an offensive message. Getting a working PAL C64 in the US is not going to happen, I'm afraid.. Also, I'm on a 56k modem connection, so downloading video clips isn't my favorite option either, sorry.
P.S. No bad feelings toward Crest. I enjoyed DXM quite a bit and just want to see their latest stuff, not an offensive message. Getting a working PAL C64 in the US is not going to happen, I'm afraid.. Also, I'm on a 56k modem connection, so downloading video clips isn't my favorite option either, sorry.
There is a patched version of the crest demo, which also works on emulators. And no, it's not 'crippled' on vice/ccs64.
Yep,. I remember Demus Interruptus too! I didn't liked that attitude too,. it's funny though that they can detect if an emulator is running :)
At least with Deus Ex Machina it was better,. just a joke but they leaved me to watch the demo even with an emul. I remember that the older versions of CCS64 said "Get a real C64 you sucker" but the latest is fine ;)
As for Demus Interruptus for emulator users:
- Reset the C64.
- Select the Disk by pressing F4 on the Dsk.
- Type LOAD "$",8 (This display's the disk catalogue. I am talking for these who used automatically the emulator and didn't know some basic commands from C64. I didn't also knew and asked a friend...)
- LOAD "DEMUSINTERRUPTUS",8,1 (You can just move the cursor in the catalogue text and write a LOAD in front and a ,8,1 in the end and press Enter)
- Wait until loaded
- Ok,. the important thing is the poke,. the previous was just for people who doesn't have any idea from the commands needed to see the catalogue of a disk and load a file...
- After it is loaded (It takes some time),. write this: POKE 2362,78
- RUN
Btw,. it almost runs perfectly. There is one part with a sprite in front of a FLI or IFLI (Or what the hell it is) which is crippled in CCS64, but in VICE it works fine! Why demomakers and emul prorgammers doesn't cooperate to correct all these errors that remained?
Emulators are really important. How the hell should I find out how C64 demos really look like with an emul? I had heard lot's of cool stuff about C64 demos and I thank the coders of emulators when beeing able to watch these wonderfull demos! Now I am obsessed with the C64 scene and I am thinking to find the real machine and be involved in the near future. But I had to see first how the scene and demos of C64 is, through the emuls. That's how newcomers can come in the C64 and other scenes!
Of course, the "Emulator sucks" attitude is performed most times for fun. Some people on C64 said, that there are sceners coding, pixeling and tracking on an emulator and not in a real machine. First, the atmosphere of the real thing is beeing lost. Second, the emulation is not perfect as C64sceners say, so you will see pics with wrong colors on a real machine,. e.t.c... (I don't know if it's true,. latest CCS64 version has a very real pallete as I have heard (When you first download CCS64, it is unactivated. Go Options => Video => PAL Filter => Export PAL Palette => Check it ON!), Graham and another scener worked for that) But this is not a reason,. because you force newcomers away.. (But they can't force me away, I really love that scene and I will start in the (near I hope) future =)
Anyways,.. still waiting for new Crest demos (Especially for Graham codings of course ;)
At least with Deus Ex Machina it was better,. just a joke but they leaved me to watch the demo even with an emul. I remember that the older versions of CCS64 said "Get a real C64 you sucker" but the latest is fine ;)
As for Demus Interruptus for emulator users:
- Reset the C64.
- Select the Disk by pressing F4 on the Dsk.
- Type LOAD "$",8 (This display's the disk catalogue. I am talking for these who used automatically the emulator and didn't know some basic commands from C64. I didn't also knew and asked a friend...)
- LOAD "DEMUSINTERRUPTUS",8,1 (You can just move the cursor in the catalogue text and write a LOAD in front and a ,8,1 in the end and press Enter)
- Wait until loaded
- Ok,. the important thing is the poke,. the previous was just for people who doesn't have any idea from the commands needed to see the catalogue of a disk and load a file...
- After it is loaded (It takes some time),. write this: POKE 2362,78
- RUN
Btw,. it almost runs perfectly. There is one part with a sprite in front of a FLI or IFLI (Or what the hell it is) which is crippled in CCS64, but in VICE it works fine! Why demomakers and emul prorgammers doesn't cooperate to correct all these errors that remained?
Emulators are really important. How the hell should I find out how C64 demos really look like with an emul? I had heard lot's of cool stuff about C64 demos and I thank the coders of emulators when beeing able to watch these wonderfull demos! Now I am obsessed with the C64 scene and I am thinking to find the real machine and be involved in the near future. But I had to see first how the scene and demos of C64 is, through the emuls. That's how newcomers can come in the C64 and other scenes!
Of course, the "Emulator sucks" attitude is performed most times for fun. Some people on C64 said, that there are sceners coding, pixeling and tracking on an emulator and not in a real machine. First, the atmosphere of the real thing is beeing lost. Second, the emulation is not perfect as C64sceners say, so you will see pics with wrong colors on a real machine,. e.t.c... (I don't know if it's true,. latest CCS64 version has a very real pallete as I have heard (When you first download CCS64, it is unactivated. Go Options => Video => PAL Filter => Export PAL Palette => Check it ON!), Graham and another scener worked for that) But this is not a reason,. because you force newcomers away.. (But they can't force me away, I really love that scene and I will start in the (near I hope) future =)
Anyways,.. still waiting for new Crest demos (Especially for Graham codings of course ;)
In fact, the C64 sceners DO work with the emulator coders... Graham/Crest and Per Hakan Sundell are in constant exchange of ideas, and if you get the newest CCS64 version, you'll find a set of screen modes called "PAL16" or "PAL32" in the mode selector.
This is actually one of the weirdest routines Graham has ever coded, as it takes the CCS64 output framebuffer and simulates encoding and decoding it to/from PAL TV signal before writing to the screen.
The effect: All colors are 100% right and the pixels don't look ugly anymore. Get a decent PC (P3 500 recommended :), get the DirectX control panel from MS, set DirectDraw to 100Hz screen refresh, start CCS64, set the screen mode to 800x600 PAL32, and there you go. It looks and runs like a dream. Even IFLI looks good.
For the sound emulation... well... I have some ideas to make it sound 100% like a real SID, but I fear that we have to cross the 2GHz border before :))
kb
This is actually one of the weirdest routines Graham has ever coded, as it takes the CCS64 output framebuffer and simulates encoding and decoding it to/from PAL TV signal before writing to the screen.
The effect: All colors are 100% right and the pixels don't look ugly anymore. Get a decent PC (P3 500 recommended :), get the DirectX control panel from MS, set DirectDraw to 100Hz screen refresh, start CCS64, set the screen mode to 800x600 PAL32, and there you go. It looks and runs like a dream. Even IFLI looks good.
For the sound emulation... well... I have some ideas to make it sound 100% like a real SID, but I fear that we have to cross the 2GHz border before :))
kb
And btw...
If you want to detect an emulator, write $FF to any SID write only register and read any other write-only register for one second. The real SID has a non refreshed DRAM latch to store register writes. This means that you'll first get the last written value back, and then, all bits will go back to 0 in a quite random order over a certain time. I know NO emulator capable of emulating THIS (maybe because it's the most useless "feature" i can imagine :)
If you want to detect an emulator, write $FF to any SID write only register and read any other write-only register for one second. The real SID has a non refreshed DRAM latch to store register writes. This means that you'll first get the last written value back, and then, all bits will go back to 0 in a quite random order over a certain time. I know NO emulator capable of emulating THIS (maybe because it's the most useless "feature" i can imagine :)
Heh,. it's just released!
Find it somewhere here:
http://w3studi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/~toegelrd/
Cu
Optimus
Find it somewhere here:
http://w3studi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/~toegelrd/
Cu
Optimus
Sure, if there's cooperation between emu coders and coders to improve quality, that's okay by me. But it shouldn't be a priority, demos come first - ensuring proper emu display is more a sort of tech support.
And please forgive me if I came over a little too strong. Music plays an important role in a demo to me and it hurts to hear all those great chiptunes getting the axe during emulation. So when the 2GHz P5 comes out, I'll be waiting for that killer sound emu app, kb ;).
Vince.
And please forgive me if I came over a little too strong. Music plays an important role in a demo to me and it hurts to hear all those great chiptunes getting the axe during emulation. So when the 2GHz P5 comes out, I'll be waiting for that killer sound emu app, kb ;).
Vince.
It certainly pays off to put a fine line between coders and emulators for their platforms: next thing we know, emulators will have unholy additions to suit their needs (imagine ccs64 with HW 3-D support) =P
Emulators that aren't 100% like the real thing are a cold, hard fact, you certainly don't change it with abusive language adressed to the unlucky few that can't afford an old beast. I own a C64, it's an excellent beige doorstop. I don't use it anymore in a real sense (apart from telling newbies that this machine was about the singlemost positive way I wasted my life)
A message, warning people that they aren't getting the full experience they (crest) intended, would've been a lot more sporting.
As to the 'true' SID emulation, that's all sweet and stuff, but first of all the real SID freaks never get tired of boasting the uniqueness of each SID's sound (making it impossible to emulate a general SID), and second, emulation never pays off for a full 100%. Buy a HardSID card instead, dammit. Utilizing a 2GHz chip to emulate a wee chip is like firing anti-aircraft artillery at a mosquito.
Emulators that aren't 100% like the real thing are a cold, hard fact, you certainly don't change it with abusive language adressed to the unlucky few that can't afford an old beast. I own a C64, it's an excellent beige doorstop. I don't use it anymore in a real sense (apart from telling newbies that this machine was about the singlemost positive way I wasted my life)
A message, warning people that they aren't getting the full experience they (crest) intended, would've been a lot more sporting.
As to the 'true' SID emulation, that's all sweet and stuff, but first of all the real SID freaks never get tired of boasting the uniqueness of each SID's sound (making it impossible to emulate a general SID), and second, emulation never pays off for a full 100%. Buy a HardSID card instead, dammit. Utilizing a 2GHz chip to emulate a wee chip is like firing anti-aircraft artillery at a mosquito.
Where can I find the patched version of Demus Interruptus? I tried the poke that Optimus posted, but no luck, it just shows black screen forever in CCS64 (latest version) and I got a reset in VICE.
www.c64.sk says:
"We didn't want to do this, but... The Demus Interruptus works ok on VICE emulator so you can do this to enable it's functionality in emulator. POKE 53038,152 - POKE 53039,234 - RUN. Thanx to WVL for being the first and to Nemezis for releasing the fix note. Have fun."
"We didn't want to do this, but... The Demus Interruptus works ok on VICE emulator so you can do this to enable it's functionality in emulator. POKE 53038,152 - POKE 53039,234 - RUN. Thanx to WVL for being the first and to Nemezis for releasing the fix note. Have fun."
Yes,. it seems that my poke doesnt work here I am trying again downloading the demo again from www.c64.sk,.. I dont know why, in my home PC it worked. I use the DOS version of CCS64, but I think they are the same. The above 2 Pokes work better...
OK, tried Tomaes' last poke suggestion, and it worked in CCS64. If I knew the demo was mostly those vertical rasters, maybe I wouldn't have tried so hard ;). And to respond to Vip, the ones with the sideborders work fine. It's the IFLI pic that fucks up. I guess the point is, you can break more ground and do more new things if you focus on the code rather than the compatibility. Just don't TRY to fuck them up. :)
What's with that French Colgate banner below? Freaky. :)
What's with that French Colgate banner below? Freaky. :)
Yeah I got it working too, thanks Tomaes. And the IFLI thing did bug pretty hard in CCS64, but maybe it will be fixed in the next version of CCS64..
No prob, if anyone can't get it to work: You can download the fixed version at www.c64-forever.de (but you must have an account there...).
@Sdw: About IFLI-problems: Read kb's first post again. :)
>> Get a decent PC (P3 500 recommended :), get the DirectX control panel from MS, set DirectDraw to 100Hz screen refresh, start CCS64, set the screen mode to 800x600 PAL32, and there you go. It looks and runs like a dream. Even IFLI looks good. <<
@Sdw: About IFLI-problems: Read kb's first post again. :)
>> Get a decent PC (P3 500 recommended :), get the DirectX control panel from MS, set DirectDraw to 100Hz screen refresh, start CCS64, set the screen mode to 800x600 PAL32, and there you go. It looks and runs like a dream. Even IFLI looks good. <<
Ah, I wasn't talking about IFLI bugging in general, I meant in Demus Interruptus, the part with sprites over IFLI doesn't work at all in CCS64.
What I think kb was saying was that with those settings demos in general that use IFLI looks good.
What I think kb was saying was that with those settings demos in general that use IFLI looks good.
Phoenix: Hmm, that's pretty odd... As said, someone told me the startup message at Demus was caused by one or several parts messing up on emu. Now, HCL's MS2001 demo "Royal Arte" had a multiplexed sprite-over-IFLI scroller at the end, and that worked pretty fine on emu. Imo, there shouldn't be much of a difference technically between that and Xbow's part, thus I figured the other parts were the ones that gave problems. Strange...
(which doesn't mean that sprites-over-IFLI parts are easy; far from it :)
(which doesn't mean that sprites-over-IFLI parts are easy; far from it :)
youtube version?
Quote:
If you want to detect an emulator, write $FF to any SID write only register and read any other write-only register for one second. The real SID has a non refreshed DRAM latch to store register writes. This means that you'll first get the last written value back, and then, all bits will go back to 0 in a quite random order over a certain time. I know NO emulator capable of emulating THIS (maybe because it's the most useless "feature" i can imagine :)
Heh, neat... last year I independently discovered that the AY chip does exactly the same thing, and right now I think it's also the only known hardware effect that isn't supported in any Spectrum emulator. Um, does that mean the Spectrum scene is exactly 8 years behind the C64? Arse.
? it's on youtube if that's what you are asking.
Oh and nice necro-thread ;p
Oh and nice necro-thread ;p
Reviving old threads is so 2001.