pouët.net

I know more answers now. I thought..

When I go back from the university at home, I see a computer. And the first thought that unconsiously comes is to open it and "I have some time now. I have to finish more stuff for the deadline, or to do stuff because I have time now and I won't be able in the future". Again things connected with my old struggle to catch up with becoming a cool freak, active or anything. I should just return home and do what I feel like doing. I am not free to do that..

I am still asking computer work from myself and being anxious if I don't use my little time for that!!! I still can't do it because I like it, at least most times. But if I just follow my passion (or instincts whatever ;), I will end up spending my time on computer playing Baktinet or surfing on the net. I will be still unhappy. If I can't be creative on my computer, it's better to not push me but make something else. Go out or so. I still will feel that I haven't done the work on computer that I wanted!

It's very wicked. You can tell me addicted to some kind of "I have time. I should be making something on my computer now!!!" obsessed or something. But I am not happy. And I either can't just stop doing stuff there and lead a normal life, because I would be still not be happy. Perhaps I have connected computer/scene activity with my personality or I only find a meaning there. But then again, struggling computer activity also makes me unhappy! And don't tell me about balance. Where is it?

phred:
I'm not saying "I just proved there is no such thing as God." I just presented my own view of these things.

It's true that I think God is an invention of man (and probably men, to be more precise ;). And no, evolution doesn't imply that and that's not what I meant. I did say that God doesn't answer anything. When wondering about what the purpose of life is, you say it's God. Now what kind of answer is that?

What if I told you the purpose is Michael Jackson's nose? You couldn't prove me wrong, could you? You probably wouldn't agree, though.

About the question of who made God, you said: "you cannot answer that because we are here in a world with causality and stuff and God is probably outside this system.."

Quite funny, actually: You cannot...because..probably.. ;)

By saying we can't explain God because he is "outside this system" you are just making sure that you don't have to answer the question. Why does life need some special reason if God doesn't?

"So you cannot come with "evolution is truth" and then argue about God.. ok?"

(You have no reason to get upset here) So, like you, I believe that evolution is the way things happened. Now, why can't I argue about God anymore?

In my previous post I just wanted to explain how I think of life without any need of a god. And for me it just seems so obvious that religion is something that people ended up with when they started to think about these things and didn't seem find a suitable answer. Comparing the situtation now to the situation 2000 years ago it seems to me that religion is dying.

Optimus: I guess I know exactly what you mean by starting to code and feeling tired just after you start. I just don't see how you manage to type such long posts then ;)

Because with posts it's diferrent. This is the relaxing or lazy thing to do. At least when they are texts when I am not struggling to necessarily make them good looking, rather than what comes in my mind. In a free non structured/disciplined way again..

Maybe you should practice by coding something that's totally screwed up and go on for hours. Then you could gradually go into more and more reasonable code ;)

the goal of life is to hack your mind... some people say buddha managed it :))
[and, of course, god does not exist; although there is a step in the proof that is only intuitively clear, not rigorous yet...]

when god is having a malfunction

Question: "Why am i here, what is my purpose?"
Answer: "God put me here, for his purpose (whatever that is)" (Sounds like an excuse again to me, let somebody else take responsibility for it)
Answer: "I'm a part of evolution, and have no purpose at all other than to spread all over the planet and maybe evolve into something else" (well, thats pretty depressing, I can see now why you need that excuse ;)

Optimus: I feel the same when i'm coding, i can go at it for an hour or two, then i really want to do something else. But I know others who really enjoy coding and can sit doing it all day, then go home and code even more. I guess some people are just made for coding, others are left to do the more interesting stuff. Maybe you should think about spending less time coding and more time trying other things, see what you enjoy most. The thing is, people are normally most happy when they do a lot of different stuff, not the same stuff all the time. Otherwise, why is prison supposed to be so bad? Try doing a lot of new things, you'll hate a lot of them, but you'll still be happy you've tried it. And some stuff will surprise you a lot and you'll want to do it again (hint: this one involves a woman ;)

sex is so 90's... the new fad is to enjoy modern art.

Interesting meanings. My favoritest are "Purpose is something life (or evolution) came up with. There was no purpose for anything before someone started thinkin there was. That's why you can't figure out a purpose for life but only a life for purpose (clever, eh ;)." and "the goal of life is to hack your mind".

Anyways,. I guess struggling to become a great coder was not the thing I should seek. Coding small things jff are ok though.

Also,. I think I need a change. I don't want to code just effects, rather than trying something else like coding a little game (I can be playing this one and it will make me happier ;) or some application (perhaps a CPC emulator or the compiler I was babbling about). Games would be the funniest to code :)

I don't know about a girl. Why does this have to be the meaning of life for some?! Perhaps in 2008. I am not interested to struggle finding one now..

if you take the evolution approach, the only purpose in life is to survive, and the only way to do that is to reproduce. I think you might find a girl kindof necessary for that :) And most of the religions put a lot of emphasis on having children and a family too. And maybe the most important point is that being with a girl (so long as its the right girl anyway) makes you happy, and you work on all the problems in your lives together, making it so much easier.

And what the hell is 'hack your mind' supposed to mean anyway?

Yeah.. that's true. I don't think the answer is God but the answer must be something about God..
Well I don't know exactly what.. probably having a relationship with God.. as heaven is the place where you have a relationship with God.. primarly, as I believe it..

You know, I think, if there is a sense of life, then it must last after death because I mean, if you are dead, what sense it makes that you, let's say, are famous, or rich, or whatever.. or if you made people happy, what sense it makes if all these people are dead..

Yeah, you know, this is true IF there is a life after death so that's what I am thinking.

And the question about if God is an invention of men or not is coming to the point if the bible is true or just an invention.. and then we are again at historic things..


I wasn't upset.. sorry, the "..ok?" was misplaced..

Now this brings the things quite to a good point..
But why does then God take the responsibilty for you?
Just because he bring you to life? Sorry.. I don't get it.. otherwise my parents have the responsibilty.. blame them! The world would be better without me.. blame them! :-)

btw: how is psonice pronounced? ps on ice? or psonis? or psonais?

>if you take the evolution approach, the only purpose in life is to survive, and the only way to do that is to reproduce.

I like evolution theory, sometimes it's also the way to leave things back there and not take responsibility too. So, I could say: The only reason that I am like shit is because I evolved this way. I am only a piece of my past, the evolution of gens, my parents and society. What problems I carry on now depends on things I couldn't change when I was too young and getting influences from my environment (we are talking about mental evolution here too). Of course I can change things now, depending on what makes me happy. Evolution will be my choices. Nobody can say "This is a bad choice!". Evolution will just proove if it is. At least if I avoid people always blaming me for what's right and what's wrong in my life, I can stop being deppressive and just think clearly, so I have better chances to be happier in my life.

I am also wondering if happiness has to do anything with survival or not? Could someone say that I should struggle at first in life so that I can be happier later, or is that an excuse? If I am unhappy, does it make enough sense to live like so? Perhaps the meaning (of life or evolution) is not just about surviving but surviving happily too. If it wasn't so, nature wouldn't equip us with feelings or so. But feelings,. I don't know,. wondered if the final receiver is soul. I think it is but I don't know if soul belongs to nature. We can only talk logically about physical things for sure..

Whether I am a totally destroyed geek or if I have lost any interest about girls, that's the way it is and I should just discover why this is happening, I shouldn't say it's bad because I don't follow evolution or something. And why do I have to reproduce to add to evolution anyways? The planet is already overpopulated. Also, my child will not belong to me mentally (as I don't belong to my parents who never understood me really and make false dreams about me from their own side of perception!) , I am always thinking about mental evolution rather than physical, because ideas remain while humans dont. Perhaps in a racial way of thinking yes, but I am just an individual who'd like perhaps to survive.

Why do girls always have to be the meaning of life? (Lucky humans that girls are!!! Am I not the meaning of life of anyone? Warum?!?!? =). And what's the meaning of life for girls then??? (A family and children I guess.. :P)

Oh well..

The ultimate execuse is to think that we are just a part of a plan. A plan we don't know, so we can just let it flow. Evolution is like this in a greater sense I have thought. With God it might be or it might not. If you are just excepting Deus Ex Machina or an afterlife Paradise instead of helping yourself in bad situations then it is like so. But then again, if you start believing there is an ethical entity and you feel awe about it, you might want to watch your actions, cause they could be good or evil. But I don't like thinking what is good or bad. Hard judgement haunted me during the earlier days of my life, could be another reason why I lack of self-esteem because I was always being blamed for anything. Then there is evolution again. That's the way it is. Better accepting both good and evil like a part of my everyday life, trying to thing there is a meaning in everything that happens to me or making it to have a meaning by the upcoming aftereffects, rather than feeling bad about myself while there is too much hypocrisy this way in every one of us, because everyone could do the same acts of good and evil or is doing in another reality.

ffs, take it easy with the ouzo =)

The easiest answer to all this is: "Just live" (Or "Have a time!")

People who just see these threads and say: "Oh well! Why are they spending their time in such useless discussion? Afteralls, will there be anyone in this world who will find the true answers to such questions? Just live! You don't have the privilege to have the 'truth' anyways :P"

Lol! But don't get me wrong, I like these discussions! I just don't know why. There are many whys in life where you could also ask whynot but you never do that..

I am also wandering another strange thing. This "What is the meaning of life?" question seems to be always melodramatical. It's mostly like "What is the reason that I am still living, since I am just getting shit from reality?". It's never a pure philosophical question: "Hey! I am in paradise, everything is fine, I am the happiest entity in the universe, but suddenly a question was raised in my mind because I am bored and don't have to do anything else. Why am I here? Is there anything more interesting than enjoying paradise?". I think the question is "perhaps" wrongly connected to our misery. The first thing we should ask is why the hell are we asking this very general question when we could just ask "What the hell is going on with me? Why am I unhappy and how could I solve my problems..". But that's the hardest part. If problem solving was easy or if we weren't lazy enough to think or to think diferrent, I wouldn't ask such things here and we wouldn't be here either. We would be flying as I like to say :)

Oh,. about mind hacking. It's hard to explain. It's something that I almost understand or interpreted in my way after reading blala's post, but perhaps I am just wrong..

How to say? We are just souls bounded in our brains, which are like automations connected to our feelings (or to what our soul receives anyways). A brain is like a computer and sometimes you wake up and discover that some wicked mechanisms brings you all the bad feelings and makes you unhappy, even in cases that you shouldn't get one. Perhaps it's possible to solve some of your problems by understanding how your mind works. Everything work unconsiously. If you get bad feelings about things that you shouldn't, it's because some neuron construction evolved to automation that brings you the same bad feelings when you encounter the same situation. It might still be there even if another logic tells you that you shouldn't feel bad by such things. You learn and evolve such mechanisms from the traumatical influences you got in the past (I once mentioned the word engrams somewhere. I read the book Dianetics and I have to read it more carefully again). There is a connection to what we also call 'vicious circles' in real life which could be feedback loops inside our brains. When you have a psychological problem but it still stays there because you are just thinking it and rethinking it the same way. A change of another older variable in a deeper base that you might not be aware, might break it and free you. At least I think :(

Understanding the way the brain thinks, might give you some deeper answers to why you feel so about things. Or I don't know. It might be the source of all problems. Feedback..

..I wonder if this Budhha guy really hacked his brain or he thinked he did. How would he ever know he reached that point. Isn't it infinite? If the brain is capable of tricking the soul into feeling things, then couldn't it just make someone thing it's over? A brain analyzing it's ownself? It goes over endlesly. I can't think of that. Perhaps the whole reality is connected in a feedback loop that completes itself. How else could I understand infinity?

I confuse hacking with understanding here. Or isn't it about it? Perhaps he did something else? If not hacking it with an axe, then very preciselly and consiously changing some variables of logic in his neural nerves, while at the same time being totally aware of what he is doing?

phred: my point about "god taking the responsibility from you" was not about god being responsible for everything you do or whatever, but god being responsible for the answer to the question "what is my purpose" (because once you accept that god created the world and you are part of gods purpose, you no longer have to answer the question; thats why i see it as an excuse, and not an answer)

And yeah, how is my name pronounced? :) Actually i don't know, i'm waiting for somebody to tell me ;)

optimus: under evolution theory, you're 100% responsible for yourself, your actions, your happiness and your survival. If you fail to survive or reproduce, an error is removed from the evolutionary system.

Sure, you're a product of your genes and your environment and your society. But that view only works for something like a plant with no intelligence! You can take actions, react to your environment in ways that benefit you best, and you can even change your environment or society! Maybe you could benefit from understanding that more and being more active and less passive in the world?

And as to being happy, i think there are 2 kinds of happy: short term and long term. Short term stuff like making a demo or playing a game will keep you happy for a few hours, but at the end of your life, you'll look back and think that you avoided life by doing such simple small things. Look for longer term stuff.

A few other things: Your children wouldn't be yours mentally? Thats pretty uncreative thinking ;) And thinking your a 'destroyed geek' (whatever that is...), why not just think that you're free to make your own decisions, if you want to be something else, just do it. Not easy, but it really is as simple as just doing it. The world being overpopulated: if you beleive in evolution, that's a good thing. As the world gets more overpopulated, conditions will get worse, and many people will die. Only the best survivors will survive, and evolution will accellerate.

there are situations where understanding how your mind works can help you, if you have a problem. And there are problems where it can make it worse (especially where you understand the problem but not the solution, then you worry about it, then you worry about worrying about it, then you get real paranoid).

And as to bhudda, personally i think when he got to the end of his journey to find enlightenment, he realised it was a dead-end, and that there is no road to enlightenment. And by realising that, he was enlightened.

And infinity... you can't understand infinity. But trying can be fun and helpful.

And brain hacking... what you described is psychology, not hacking of any kind i've ever heard of. Perhaps in the future it will be possible to alter your brain to change personallity, memories etc, and brain hacking will be possible, i don't think it is now. Sounds more like a cheesy hollywood film line ;)

>And yeah, how is my name pronounced? :) Actually i don't know, i'm waiting for somebody to tell me ;)

psy-oh-nike

>optimus: under evolution theory, you're 100% responsible for yourself, your actions, your happiness and your survival. If you fail to survive or reproduce, an error is removed from the evolutionary system.

Yep, but that's a rule, not a blame. I am just trying to avoid the blame. It's general and I like it. If I believe that reproduction has nothing to do with My (or my ideas, thus personality, that's what counts for me) evolution, then I can accept evolution to say that. I don't want to see people coming on my side and telling me which way in life I have to follow. I can see the results in the way. It's in my choice and if I die miserable, oh well, it's just evolution. But a voice inside myself (my soul) doesn't want that. It wants to proove that my way can be right! It won't stop till the end. And if it does before reaching it's focus, I'll see what I will do. I will be still a soul floating. I can think of it.. (I am really wondering however if and which part of personality is inside braincells. If we remove the brain, what part of the soul remains. What remains without the struggling settings inside our brain?)

>Sure, you're a product of your genes and your environment and your society. But that view only works for something like a plant with no intelligence! You can take actions, react to your environment in ways that benefit you best, and you can even change your environment or society! Maybe you could benefit from understanding that more and being more active and less passive in the world?

I agree with that. I am not passive. Actually what means passive and when active is active enough or not active enough anyways? I think I should reconsider the feeling/meaning I get from every theoritical word I got taught. We are based on them. Like axioms. If I started reconstructing any base from scratch, what diferrent truth about reality would I grasp? But it's inevitable now..

>And as to being happy, i think there are 2 kinds of happy: short term and long term. Short term stuff like making a demo or playing a game will keep you happy for a few hours, but at the end of your life, you'll look back and think that you avoided life by doing such simple small things. Look for longer term stuff.

But you don't know it. Most times used as an excuse from the people that bothered me. As they knew..

>The world being overpopulated: if you beleive in evolution, that's a good thing. As the world gets more overpopulated, conditions will get worse, and many people will die. Only the best survivors will survive, and evolution will accellerate.

That's true. Nature will take care of herself. But then, I am talking about my own evolution. I don't find a meaning in doing children right now. Happiness? I don't know why. Everbody 's got children. Little kids are sweet but that's what I thought then. I'll have to spend time and money and I don't know right now what I would gain from it. Perhaps I can do it later to say that I achieved that too in my life? Oh well..

>Your children wouldn't be yours mentally? Thats pretty uncreative thinking ;)

You didn't explained me why though..

I never felt like my parents. They are very connected to me. I am negativelly connected to them. That's hard. In many of my actions, a dark cloud of bad feelings falls upon me. The awe of my parents knowing that I did that. A feeling of guilty while logically I shouldn't. I am unhappy. Them? It's like I am their dreamchild! Like I belong to them. And even my personality. If they listen to my thoughts that don't match to their beliefs, they feel bad hearing me expressing them! It's like they want their dreamchild (I am doing it so that PS doesn't do it before me ;), the way it matches their personality and not the way I am. And that way, ME, they never understand it and they will be never willing to do so. Because they expect that their children have to be their mental evolution or something. Well,. in some way I am, with things like the bad habits or feelings I carry, but my personality is diferrent.

When I am thinking about mental evolution, it could be that my son or daughter will be the future me! But they could just have a life and despise computers and me as well :P

>When I am thinking about mental evolution, it could be that my son or daughter will be the future me!

I mean,. that's the only way I could think it. But I don't like this. Perhaps I can teach them something but later they will find their way alone. This way, I don't feel like I achieved mental evolution. I could only do it the bad way, oppresing them to believe my own ideas, but it would still not work because they are diferrent. So,. I still believe in pure ideas evolution, because it's not directed in a specific person, rather than to anyone who wants to grasp something.

>And there are problems where it can make it worse (especially where you understand the problem but not the solution, then you worry about it, then you worry about worrying about it, then you get real paranoid).

True! :/

>And brain hacking... what you described is psychology, not hacking of any kind i've ever heard of. Perhaps in the future it will be possible to alter your brain to change personallity, memories etc, and brain hacking will be possible, i don't think it is now. Sounds more like a cheesy hollywood film line ;)

Yes, it is actually psychology in a way, but that was what I was thinking. I never thought actually the other hollywood thingy thing but it would be just flashy, not the meaning or something..

Sometimes I am even struggling while taking part in these discussions. I dislike hearing predictable things but that's the way it is and it's not wrong. And I dislike that I sometimes can't formulate my thoughts well and there are only clouds and no base, but I believe at the same time that there is no base or the truth is far away from us. Then why discussing these things? As always to get to something? There is no point now. It even struggles me that I can't grasp something to base or I am too perfectionist to do so or find an appropriate one that I can be sure that it's the center of everything! How much wrong our way of logic in order to understand such things are. It's inevitable..

Gonna ride my bike now! It will make me feel better..

brain is hardware. "soul" (i don't like this word) is software. there are (at least) two ways of hacking:
1) hardware modding (alcohol, caffeine, drugs, etc)
2) hacking in the usual sense (finding clever ways to change the input to achieve the desired output. like yoga, meditation, but also more tricky things like music, lights; you can also force yourself to change your mood; etc)
in fact you can combine these things quite cleverly