Hyperbased (lug00ber-remix)-samples (derived from the discussion in the Bitjam RMX-thread)
category: general [glöplog]
pink is the new blue!
Moby \o/ And to live to see the day when the guy behind elekfunk! messed around with one of my tracks <3
Anyhoo, the masters. I'm still suffering a bit from a cold, so I don't trust my ears completely. But anyway:
Moby's master seem to have corrected the bass a lot, which is a recurring problem on my side (I always turn the bass up too much). Our monitors roll off about the same place in the bottom (38hz on mine), so the problem probably comes from the guy in the chair ;)
What I don't like about is that the levels are pushed a bit much, which results in two big issues for me:
1. The 80s synth pumps way too much (it's almost like there's a tremolo effect on it at times)
2. The drums sound too "flat" for my taste, especially the snare(s) get a bit "dead" in my ears.
If you are primarily used to master rock/metal, that would explain why :) Electronic (dance) music is also drum driven, but in another way than rock/metal. I wouldn't argue that there's anything technically wrong with the drums in that version, though it's possibly "wrong" with regards to the genre.
I do like tEIs' version better, because it sounds closer to what I did myself (typical artist egomaniac nonsense ;). But that version still has the artist-induced problems with the bass as my own version. I do like the way the drums sound in this version though, and I think that is probably as good as it could get without doing the EQ and levels completely from scratch for each drumtrack (primarily the breakbeats).
@oxb: the sub-bass definitely needs to be fixed in the mix in order for the track to able to have some sort of balance at all. Too bad the original artist was a moron :D
Anyhoo, the masters. I'm still suffering a bit from a cold, so I don't trust my ears completely. But anyway:
Moby's master seem to have corrected the bass a lot, which is a recurring problem on my side (I always turn the bass up too much). Our monitors roll off about the same place in the bottom (38hz on mine), so the problem probably comes from the guy in the chair ;)
What I don't like about is that the levels are pushed a bit much, which results in two big issues for me:
1. The 80s synth pumps way too much (it's almost like there's a tremolo effect on it at times)
2. The drums sound too "flat" for my taste, especially the snare(s) get a bit "dead" in my ears.
If you are primarily used to master rock/metal, that would explain why :) Electronic (dance) music is also drum driven, but in another way than rock/metal. I wouldn't argue that there's anything technically wrong with the drums in that version, though it's possibly "wrong" with regards to the genre.
I do like tEIs' version better, because it sounds closer to what I did myself (typical artist egomaniac nonsense ;). But that version still has the artist-induced problems with the bass as my own version. I do like the way the drums sound in this version though, and I think that is probably as good as it could get without doing the EQ and levels completely from scratch for each drumtrack (primarily the breakbeats).
@oxb: the sub-bass definitely needs to be fixed in the mix in order for the track to able to have some sort of balance at all. Too bad the original artist was a moron :D
Quote:
seriously, who the fuck decreed that every electronic device has to feature a blue led for activity ?? i can't stand it anymore! and that's wasting energy :p
What? Blasphemy!!
I like my desk to look like a small city in the dark :D
i already took out some subbass .. but to be honest, abit less would've done it aswell :) ..
thanks ur liked my crappy masterin :D
thanks ur liked my crappy masterin :D
I'm happy with the mix the way it is now, but if only that there faint cowbell came a bit more forward then it would be awesome.
Cowbell? What cowbell? :D
Like in this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhSkRHXTKlw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhSkRHXTKlw&feature=related
Ok my take on the track is here.
As pointed out by others previouly, there's some seriously boomy low end on the original bass track. So, I too ended up doing some creative eq'ing with that. In my mix, the bass track is split and filtered into low and high bands (two separate tracks that is). There's also heavy fuzz distortion applied to the low freq track and some mild spatialization on the high freq track.. Would've wanted to add a bit more of distortion to the bass line to make it even more cRRrrunchy, but since the track has the synth pattern on top of it, couldn't really implement it.
I also added a piano of my own, the original track is panned abour 50% to the right and the level lowered so that the lousy piano samples can't be heard through the overall mix.
As pointed out by others previouly, there's some seriously boomy low end on the original bass track. So, I too ended up doing some creative eq'ing with that. In my mix, the bass track is split and filtered into low and high bands (two separate tracks that is). There's also heavy fuzz distortion applied to the low freq track and some mild spatialization on the high freq track.. Would've wanted to add a bit more of distortion to the bass line to make it even more cRRrrunchy, but since the track has the synth pattern on top of it, couldn't really implement it.
I also added a piano of my own, the original track is panned abour 50% to the right and the level lowered so that the lousy piano samples can't be heard through the overall mix.
Nice work, LB :D
the discussion reminded me of two demos where i kindof wondered if the music went out before being mastered (by accident or something)
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=29893
and
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=31664
at least, as far as i hear, they could easily have +3dB before even clipping - is it just me? :o
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=29893
and
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=31664
at least, as far as i hear, they could easily have +3dB before even clipping - is it just me? :o
You guys remind me of my son and his friends pretending to be Formula 1 drivers on their bikes...
why?
There is a slight difference between being musician and a mastering engineer and i have no idea why so many people are obsessed with it. Learn to manage your mixes and let mastering up to those who really have guts in it. Musicians don't have to be able to master their tracks. Especially since mastering a single track usually doesn't make sense at all.
All this "let's play mastering engineer" thing makes me smile.
All this "let's play mastering engineer" thing makes me smile.
On a sidenote - i didn't mean to say that i have guts in mastering at all.
hmm good point. but well, then again, this is the scene isn't it? diy-galore. your point is a bit like saying that letting coders do "direction" and (god forbid) write articles and do seminars about it, is silly because they should just get a real director in their teams.
the scene is all about being an amateur at certain things and still being able to pull off something decent. this even holds for the pro gamedevvers; f.ex. i'm pretty sure smash doesn't do much graphics at work. or compose jazzy modules for that matter but ok. this is our playground to try out stuff we don't do professionally. as such, i think it's quite cool to see people talk about mastering and exchanging experiences, even if it's not their ultimate field of expertise.
that said, i'm all ears for the mastering engineer / musician separation - i basically stopped doing music when how slick it sounded became as important as the composition itself in the trackerscene - i simply didn't have the energy or motivation to learn to do mastering.
the scene is all about being an amateur at certain things and still being able to pull off something decent. this even holds for the pro gamedevvers; f.ex. i'm pretty sure smash doesn't do much graphics at work. or compose jazzy modules for that matter but ok. this is our playground to try out stuff we don't do professionally. as such, i think it's quite cool to see people talk about mastering and exchanging experiences, even if it's not their ultimate field of expertise.
that said, i'm all ears for the mastering engineer / musician separation - i basically stopped doing music when how slick it sounded became as important as the composition itself in the trackerscene - i simply didn't have the energy or motivation to learn to do mastering.
sure, but we're also amateurs, we shouldnt be requiring the contacts and budget for pro-mastering - i personally dont mind knowing the very basic concepts of mastering, even if i dont aspire to be bob ludwig, just someone who can pull meters on ozone.
wow that was snotty, respect!
However, to master a single track makes perfect sense if you're release base is teh internetz. And mastering engineers arent some kind of magical wizards that can take a track that sounds like it was recorded through 4 pillows and a horses ass, and turn it into something you would want on a CD: They dont have other tools avaible than musicians can have, mostly just more expensive versions of them and in hardware (to some fetishists that means a lot).
When we started brainshakaz a million years ago, we took stuff we had done in trackers to a pro studio and he just looked at us in disbelief, when he heard it (not the music, the sound). Brainshakaz had some connection to the scene so im sure some of you know atleast "of" it, and we were using trackers like were most at the time, but the sound quality even in tracks with 20 megs of high quality samples was so poor that he couldnt do much to make it any better. or rather, he couldnt make it as good as youd like when its to go on 12" and you pay good money for it. Thats the point where all of us started to get in to the basics with mastering and sound engineering ourself, and lo and behold. When we came back he smiled and made a master for the first Brainshaka 12"
Another thing is, try and send a demo to any label. If they have 2 equally good musicians, but one of them is a skilled producer/sound tech aswel and you can hear it, he will get the deal more often than not.
and finally http://profile.myspace.com/tulkmusic these tracks are only mastered a final time when they are to be put on the same cd together, still the production value of each track is rock solid with every single sound given enough room to shine while maintaining a heavy bass end.
So in short. yes. its worth the time nomatter what, if other people are going to play it on their equipment, and it doesnt take anything else than knowing the gear youre using and having a sense of sound.
a final master (where you master all 10 tracks on a cd to fit eachother) is something else entirely, and serve another purpose than the individual master of a track.
However, to master a single track makes perfect sense if you're release base is teh internetz. And mastering engineers arent some kind of magical wizards that can take a track that sounds like it was recorded through 4 pillows and a horses ass, and turn it into something you would want on a CD: They dont have other tools avaible than musicians can have, mostly just more expensive versions of them and in hardware (to some fetishists that means a lot).
When we started brainshakaz a million years ago, we took stuff we had done in trackers to a pro studio and he just looked at us in disbelief, when he heard it (not the music, the sound). Brainshakaz had some connection to the scene so im sure some of you know atleast "of" it, and we were using trackers like were most at the time, but the sound quality even in tracks with 20 megs of high quality samples was so poor that he couldnt do much to make it any better. or rather, he couldnt make it as good as youd like when its to go on 12" and you pay good money for it. Thats the point where all of us started to get in to the basics with mastering and sound engineering ourself, and lo and behold. When we came back he smiled and made a master for the first Brainshaka 12"
Another thing is, try and send a demo to any label. If they have 2 equally good musicians, but one of them is a skilled producer/sound tech aswel and you can hear it, he will get the deal more often than not.
and finally http://profile.myspace.com/tulkmusic these tracks are only mastered a final time when they are to be put on the same cd together, still the production value of each track is rock solid with every single sound given enough room to shine while maintaining a heavy bass end.
So in short. yes. its worth the time nomatter what, if other people are going to play it on their equipment, and it doesnt take anything else than knowing the gear youre using and having a sense of sound.
a final master (where you master all 10 tracks on a cd to fit eachother) is something else entirely, and serve another purpose than the individual master of a track.
btw are the old brainshakaz mods still online somewhere? i believe you were also a netlabel/trackergroup no? i remember having loved some earlier mad-e tracks.
mad e released scene modules under brainshakaz label aswell, and nobody minded really as long as the same track did not get released both ways. xm and 12". If you find some of mad-e's dnb that wasnt released under mo'playaz, you can safely call it brainshakaz material.
But i dont know other places than AMP, and they only have some very old stuff from him.
We were all a bunch of retards who think we grew out of the scene because we now had vinyl as a meduim of soundexchange. So none of us kept our tracked stuff personally except as vinyls :( ....and everybody regrets, but thats life. Sorry :)
But i dont know other places than AMP, and they only have some very old stuff from him.
We were all a bunch of retards who think we grew out of the scene because we now had vinyl as a meduim of soundexchange. So none of us kept our tracked stuff personally except as vinyls :( ....and everybody regrets, but thats life. Sorry :)
btw skrebbel did i see you in the metro in cph a short while ago. I was in a seriously pissy mood that day , but afterwards i was unsure if it was you and i was a little ashamed that i didnt say hello or talk any?! did you see me?
skrebbel/gargaj: diy-galore, yes - welcome. trying to master your own tracks, welcome. gathering knowledge about it, hell yeah. but since when is the scene about making professionals laugh about it? imho that mastering topic is such a misunderstood topic, so many musicians aren't even able to draw the line between mixing their tracks and attempting to master it. and mate, if you're able to mix your track appropriately, the mastering guy doesn't have to do much about it but respectively adjusting it for the final production.
i'd preferably ask lug0 to keep the individual tracks balanced and improve the mixing on his track rather than jumping one step too far towards mastering it. it's like building the house from roof to cellar. just that fact alone reveals the absense of knowledge about mastering and its whereabouts.
eebliss: as for labels, a&r's are looking for individual ideals, good music but hell - no wannabe mastered tracks unless you really know what you do. there must be room for the real mastering guy to work with your tracks - and labels absolutely worship that. get a grip.
i'd preferably ask lug0 to keep the individual tracks balanced and improve the mixing on his track rather than jumping one step too far towards mastering it. it's like building the house from roof to cellar. just that fact alone reveals the absense of knowledge about mastering and its whereabouts.
eebliss: as for labels, a&r's are looking for individual ideals, good music but hell - no wannabe mastered tracks unless you really know what you do. there must be room for the real mastering guy to work with your tracks - and labels absolutely worship that. get a grip.
Quote:
http://profile.myspace.com/tulkmusic
are you affiliated with these guys?
i found tulk when looking for new optokoppler stuff and was really, really dissapointed. first optokoppler was good, but this is a good example that "rock solid sound" or great mastering is worthless when there is no soul in the music. :)
yeah because its not like i have released music through labels, that including 2 labels of my own during the past 12 years, wich gives me some insight into how labels operate like it or not. Did you check out the link? Any master guy i have spoken to ever, prefer that as you say the mix is solid, but getting something that is close to release gives him a whole lot of more options to play with for making the final product perfect when he doesnt have to cover for lack of production skill. Its really that simple, and you can get bitchy all you want to about it.
yeah Tim is a really sweet guy, he helps me with getting into trance. the production of it, the MASTERING ;), et all... And i agree, i think optokopplers tracks are better than tulks, but it comes down to Tim wanted to do something else with the tulk project, so its a taste thing, but his skills are amazing. His sound is rock solid, even when his tracks are boring.