DirectX 11 and the PC demoscene
category: general [glöplog]
I never intended to install Vista soon on any of my systems; too many negative comments about permissions, bad performance and general suckyness. Then for work I had to start developing on a target computer (Dell) with Vista installed.
As with every OS change, it took some hours to get used to it (the explorer is a bit different, control panel, network config...). But once I got familiar with it and disabled the user account control it was a very nice and stable system. In fact when I get back to XP on my own PC I always miss some Vista features. Nothing fancy, just things that make everything a bit easier.
No driver problems, no crashes, no incompatibilities, everything works fine for me. I only have a minor complaint, is it possible to have the old start->programs without reverting everything to the classic start menu? I don't like Vista's "show all programs".
As with every OS change, it took some hours to get used to it (the explorer is a bit different, control panel, network config...). But once I got familiar with it and disabled the user account control it was a very nice and stable system. In fact when I get back to XP on my own PC I always miss some Vista features. Nothing fancy, just things that make everything a bit easier.
No driver problems, no crashes, no incompatibilities, everything works fine for me. I only have a minor complaint, is it possible to have the old start->programs without reverting everything to the classic start menu? I don't like Vista's "show all programs".
gloom: it's using that as an argument what makes it pathetic... if -FOR YOU-, everything that comes with Vista is bloat... then fine, don't upgrade it (I'm not asking anyone to upgrade to Vista, and never have)...
But if your argument AGAINST upgrading is just having to use modern hardware for using new features... then it IS pathetic. And about the similarity with demos... it's evident: if you need 'x' new hardware to use that 'y' new feature... then if it's worth of it, you'll upgrade, if it's not, you won't.
Now that feature is not worth of it? That might be your personal oppinion, respectable, and understandable... but saying that hardware requirements only (or price, or simply lies like it's more buggy than XP) are the reason not to upgrade to Vista... then it is indeed pathetic :-)
I'm ok with you (or anyone else) not upgrading to Vista, I'm not the Vista saviour who wants everyone to upgrade their oldie XP installations... I seriously don't give a fuck about people upgrading or not (other than what I already said about my work, but personally...), I'm not paid by Microsoft, and I indeed have many complaints with Vista (which I already had in XP and had hopes Vista would have make it better, but didn't)... but the argumentation used, at least in a demoscene-people forum, has been quite pathetic :-)
But if your argument AGAINST upgrading is just having to use modern hardware for using new features... then it IS pathetic. And about the similarity with demos... it's evident: if you need 'x' new hardware to use that 'y' new feature... then if it's worth of it, you'll upgrade, if it's not, you won't.
Now that feature is not worth of it? That might be your personal oppinion, respectable, and understandable... but saying that hardware requirements only (or price, or simply lies like it's more buggy than XP) are the reason not to upgrade to Vista... then it is indeed pathetic :-)
I'm ok with you (or anyone else) not upgrading to Vista, I'm not the Vista saviour who wants everyone to upgrade their oldie XP installations... I seriously don't give a fuck about people upgrading or not (other than what I already said about my work, but personally...), I'm not paid by Microsoft, and I indeed have many complaints with Vista (which I already had in XP and had hopes Vista would have make it better, but didn't)... but the argumentation used, at least in a demoscene-people forum, has been quite pathetic :-)
gloom: Use BeOS, I heard it's better.
jcl: the 'lies' about it being more buggy than xp were actually massively true, it was hugely unstable in comparison, at least on the whole (yes, some systems ran fine from day one, but if you need some kind of lucky config I wouldn't call that a stable OS ;).
That was mostly down to drivers though from what I've seen, and that situation has mostly changed (the drivers seem pretty stable now, and a lot of the initial os problems got fixed along the way). This is why people like to wait for SP2, it'll at least be as stable as what they had before by then. People will still be complaining though, it'll take some time for perceptions to follow reality :)
That was mostly down to drivers though from what I've seen, and that situation has mostly changed (the drivers seem pretty stable now, and a lot of the initial os problems got fixed along the way). This is why people like to wait for SP2, it'll at least be as stable as what they had before by then. People will still be complaining though, it'll take some time for perceptions to follow reality :)
psonice: I agree... I had my own problems (on day one) on some machines (luckily not with my workstation, I had a perfectly running hardware from day one, but I do know what you mean, and have suffered bluescreens and slow copy-time calculations on other machines)...
... but we're pretty far from day one already :-)
... but we're pretty far from day one already :-)
true by experiments:
you will never make Vista correctly work on a AGP system no matter what hardware it has. Also if it's an Athlon 64 6000 X2 with a ATI 3850 AGP. So this is one of the more significant system requirements of course.
Vista is in most cases a bit slower than XP on the same hardware/software.
Also in network you can get of lot of problems with vista clients if not all other windows clients are updated to the most actual version.
from my point of view:
use/install vista64 if you have a core2 duo or greater, more than 2GB RAM and a graphic card like 8800GT / HD3850 for PCIe or even greater. that could perhaps be an effective change. but 64bit soft is still rare. 32bit execution is even slower on vista64 than on vista32.
so for me theres actually no reason to change, also the complete network I have to administrate will stay like it is. for hardware and also compatibility reasons.
you will never make Vista correctly work on a AGP system no matter what hardware it has. Also if it's an Athlon 64 6000 X2 with a ATI 3850 AGP. So this is one of the more significant system requirements of course.
Vista is in most cases a bit slower than XP on the same hardware/software.
Also in network you can get of lot of problems with vista clients if not all other windows clients are updated to the most actual version.
from my point of view:
use/install vista64 if you have a core2 duo or greater, more than 2GB RAM and a graphic card like 8800GT / HD3850 for PCIe or even greater. that could perhaps be an effective change. but 64bit soft is still rare. 32bit execution is even slower on vista64 than on vista32.
so for me theres actually no reason to change, also the complete network I have to administrate will stay like it is. for hardware and also compatibility reasons.
That's not strictly true. My parents have a 2.8Ghz Pentium 4, 1Gig and an AGP Geforce 6600 256meg. Vista runs smoothly on that machine, in fact I'd say it's running just as well - if not better - than the XP installation that was on there before. Games are also running fine (my dad's a doom/halo fan). Granted it's a fairly modern machine though, I probably wouldn't run it on anything less than that without doing some serious tweaking.
I mean, I'm not here to defend my OS of choice or anything - I don't think I'd have the stamina anyway. Yeah, there are problems with Vista, mainly to do with it's performance... but then, I had to uninstall XP from the 600Mhz, 192MB laptop I'm writing this post on because it was running way too slowly.. As for hardware problems, I'm running on three seperate configurations and I've had none on any of them - even if I had, I don't see how that equates to Vista being a badly designed OS.
I mean, I'm not here to defend my OS of choice or anything - I don't think I'd have the stamina anyway. Yeah, there are problems with Vista, mainly to do with it's performance... but then, I had to uninstall XP from the 600Mhz, 192MB laptop I'm writing this post on because it was running way too slowly.. As for hardware problems, I'm running on three seperate configurations and I've had none on any of them - even if I had, I don't see how that equates to Vista being a badly designed OS.
Not really related, but still:
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/29/vista-sales-really-windows-xp
I also watched the videos at the previously discussed http://www.mojaveexperiment.com/ and I'm not impressed. :) First of all; jesus.. Microsoft.. hire some GOOD PR-PEOPLE! Secondly; the premise is that people prepetuate and base their opinions on what they have heard, but not experienced first hand.. yeah? So? That's how the world works!
Now; if the "experiment" had consisted of people who have _actually used_ Windows Vista and still hate it, that would have had some merit. But; well, people would have seen it was Vista, and therefore reacted to that, and also; people who hate Vista because they have tried it and hated it won't change their minds just because some Microsoft PR-person hangs over their shoulder and goes "Ah, so that is what you don't like? Well, if you go to Preferences, My Network, Fudgepacker, Setting XYZ and just click this "Turn OFF the non-userfriendly options" setting, click Save, click Apply, click Back, and then Apply, and then reboot the machine, then it'll work!"
Also, the "oh, but's it's 'just a driver issue'"-argument is bullshit as well. If you make an OS you can't blame the hardware vendors for not working. Hell, Microsoft has used that argumentation towards Linux for years, and now suddenly it doesn't apply?
Oh, and Linux also sucks. :)
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/29/vista-sales-really-windows-xp
Quote:
"From the 30th of June, we have no longer been able to ship a PC with an XP licence," said Jane Bradburn, a marketing manager for HP Australia. "However, what we have been able to do with Microsoft is ship PCs with a Vista Business licence but with XP pre-loaded. That is still the majority of business computers we are selling today."
Therefore the Vole's claims for high Vista sales figures are merely so much steer manure. The major PC vendors are still preloading Windows XP, but Microsoft is counting those XP preloads as Vista sales.
That's not looking like its about to turn around any time soon, either.
I also watched the videos at the previously discussed http://www.mojaveexperiment.com/ and I'm not impressed. :) First of all; jesus.. Microsoft.. hire some GOOD PR-PEOPLE! Secondly; the premise is that people prepetuate and base their opinions on what they have heard, but not experienced first hand.. yeah? So? That's how the world works!
Now; if the "experiment" had consisted of people who have _actually used_ Windows Vista and still hate it, that would have had some merit. But; well, people would have seen it was Vista, and therefore reacted to that, and also; people who hate Vista because they have tried it and hated it won't change their minds just because some Microsoft PR-person hangs over their shoulder and goes "Ah, so that is what you don't like? Well, if you go to Preferences, My Network, Fudgepacker, Setting XYZ and just click this "Turn OFF the non-userfriendly options" setting, click Save, click Apply, click Back, and then Apply, and then reboot the machine, then it'll work!"
Also, the "oh, but's it's 'just a driver issue'"-argument is bullshit as well. If you make an OS you can't blame the hardware vendors for not working. Hell, Microsoft has used that argumentation towards Linux for years, and now suddenly it doesn't apply?
Oh, and Linux also sucks. :)
Gloom, If anything that dishonest mojave page made me stubborn in the matter. What a crock of deceptive shite.
If thats an experiment I too conducted this experiment that day with 3 different joeschmoe users and on touch, every single one of them hated it like the original sin.
If thats an experiment I too conducted this experiment that day with 3 different joeschmoe users and on touch, every single one of them hated it like the original sin.
alienus: then you had good luck. I'm not a person who has good luck very often. so I need a solution that works and is effective. vista don't have this features as the result of my experiments. from my point of view a shortened windows (nevertheless which oone) including emulators for the old shit would be a great solution. or just a delivery of the new windows including a license for all older versions so that you can downgrade to one of them any time you want, will be a great effort.
but forcing me to change hardware, rewrite share scripts... is not what I want.
that mojave campaign/propaganda is a shame! I cannot imagine I sell something better by fucking my customers or degrading them as idiots. but it seems mankind it going crazy in any way. thats how I understand this campaign. if you are no looser buy vista. ouch! I will stay as looser actually, a very proud/happy one.
but forcing me to change hardware, rewrite share scripts... is not what I want.
that mojave campaign/propaganda is a shame! I cannot imagine I sell something better by fucking my customers or degrading them as idiots. but it seems mankind it going crazy in any way. thats how I understand this campaign. if you are no looser buy vista. ouch! I will stay as looser actually, a very proud/happy one.
I run Vista Ultimate Edition on a PC with Intel Core 2 Quad, Nvidia Geforce 9600, and 2 GB of Ram.
Believe it or not is quite stable and awesome OS. The real upgrade from Windows XP. My only complain is the the Buzz sound engine keeps crashing all the time but I got used to it.
Sorry guys I have to stick with the new trends.... 8-)
Believe it or not is quite stable and awesome OS. The real upgrade from Windows XP. My only complain is the the Buzz sound engine keeps crashing all the time but I got used to it.
Sorry guys I have to stick with the new trends.... 8-)
Defiance: Buzz has to be set up propperly, there's allways some more stable setup. also, they recently had a new release wich included bugfixes. (first in 6 years or so)
Vistar is even more annoying than I originally thought ("They can't really rape their UI that much if they don't even rewrite it from scratch, or can they?")
