What do you want a new Scene.org to be like?
category: general [glöplog]
also, to reply to smash. i don't think there are that many pure consumers, at least not on pouet. virtually all at least have some scene-related skill, i think. and if they really have never made something, then many plan/dream on once doing so, still. pouet is for the producers.
smash: worried about pouet turning into something not fun, something that looks and behaves like all the other boring bulletin boards on the web planet. The scene is original, chiptune.com is original as rez reminds us, ftp.scene.org is original (all the scene prods freely available on a classic ftp! g0dz bless it), pouet should remain original.
your comparison is limpid, i just underline the fact that eurogamer is pretty original compared to other gamereview sites by providing both fair and fun, honest and witty reviews. And the fact that demomakers speak about their passion on gamedev sites is actually a good thing to serve a demoscene propaganda purpose ;)
your comparison is limpid, i just underline the fact that eurogamer is pretty original compared to other gamereview sites by providing both fair and fun, honest and witty reviews. And the fact that demomakers speak about their passion on gamedev sites is actually a good thing to serve a demoscene propaganda purpose ;)
*all the recent scene prods i meant, sorry for oldschoolers :p
zest, you're constantly talking about fun, but you're forgetting that most people here think hacking up pixel shaders is fun, not posting pictures to forums. you can't at all compare that to game boards, where the consumers are clearly not the producers. the scene is its own audience, and pouet caters to it. posting a picture of a valve is not a horrible crime, but it surely adds nothing at all.
uh i hope for my own mental health that i don't restrict fun to some random google images o_O
seriously demo people can do both, be both serious and silly.
you've just pointed out the main characterstic of pouet originality : its content is directly created by producers, while providing a quite exhaustive showcase to outside consumers. Isn't it wonderful ?
love/hate are close feelings, i'm quite sure most of you actually LOVE POUET :p
seriously demo people can do both, be both serious and silly.
you've just pointed out the main characterstic of pouet originality : its content is directly created by producers, while providing a quite exhaustive showcase to outside consumers. Isn't it wonderful ?
love/hate are close feelings, i'm quite sure most of you actually LOVE POUET :p
zest: but i dont think pouet itself should change, because it satisfies the need of the _consumer_ side of the equation. i want something extra to satisfy the need of the _creator_ side. which has a very different set of requirements and conversation topics.
keops wrote:
word! :)
Quote:
what about having an additional small BBS called something like "the technical forums" ?
People would have access to it by default but as soon as they start posting random pics or stuff like that in it, they would lose the access (but they could still go to the main old BBS, playing the attentionwhores with pictures and retarded links).
We would then have an interesting BBS area on Pouet and at the same time the usual BBS for stuff that is more fun oriented. It's a win-win :)
word! :)
I guess we could say that there are already sites doing the right job, but with pouet being the 'main' scene site most of the people are here. I reckon there are a few things potentially stopping any new scene.org forums from being really great:
- a lot of people won't bother to use more than one site. Whether they're complementary or not, if scene.org is really successful it'll be competing with pouet.
- it has to be accessible. The forums here are good because they're pretty instant, you can read them straight off and there's no complex structure to figure out.
- it can't be too elitist. Some elite bits are good, but the newbies need encouragement rather than discouragement. If that's balanced with some motivation to get to the elite areas, all the better :)
- a lot of people won't bother to use more than one site. Whether they're complementary or not, if scene.org is really successful it'll be competing with pouet.
- it has to be accessible. The forums here are good because they're pretty instant, you can read them straight off and there's no complex structure to figure out.
- it can't be too elitist. Some elite bits are good, but the newbies need encouragement rather than discouragement. If that's balanced with some motivation to get to the elite areas, all the better :)
Bitfellas looks pretty nice but finding the few threads with actual discussions in the jungle of bitbot and birthday spam is hard, if there are any. I dont understand why some people are so enthuiastic about it.
I think both bitfellas and pouet could need a split of the forums, on bitfellas into one for spam and one for discussions, and pouet could have a new section for moderated discussions.
It has worked quite well for both pouet and csdb to attract people by being open and offering new and old releases, while having the forums easily available. Csdb also somehow managed to avoid pouetization for quite some time, and still has mostly interesting discussions, but has had an increasing amount of bullshit, to the point that moderators had to be appointed to delete posts.
I have been quite disappointed before by scene forums when it comes to articles and sharing knowledge, scene.se with all the functionality it has still hasnt got a working system for writing articles, and I've only seen two tutorials posted in its regular forums during 2.5 years.
I've just started an attempt at the scandivian commodore forum called folkvagn to have some kind of c64 assembler course where a task is posted along with information and guidance and interested people can try to solve it and ask there for more help. Dont know how it will turn out, but atleast there are some people who seem to be interested.
So I also wish for more serious discussions, its just that I dont have too high hopes.
I think both bitfellas and pouet could need a split of the forums, on bitfellas into one for spam and one for discussions, and pouet could have a new section for moderated discussions.
It has worked quite well for both pouet and csdb to attract people by being open and offering new and old releases, while having the forums easily available. Csdb also somehow managed to avoid pouetization for quite some time, and still has mostly interesting discussions, but has had an increasing amount of bullshit, to the point that moderators had to be appointed to delete posts.
I have been quite disappointed before by scene forums when it comes to articles and sharing knowledge, scene.se with all the functionality it has still hasnt got a working system for writing articles, and I've only seen two tutorials posted in its regular forums during 2.5 years.
I've just started an attempt at the scandivian commodore forum called folkvagn to have some kind of c64 assembler course where a task is posted along with information and guidance and interested people can try to solve it and ask there for more help. Dont know how it will turn out, but atleast there are some people who seem to be interested.
So I also wish for more serious discussions, its just that I dont have too high hopes.
Smash: What technical part about your demos/intros is it you are so eager to share with us?
stefan: excuse me if i appear to be rude (you certainly are a lot of times) but my perception after having read pouet for a couple of years now is that nobody actually wants to share anything with you. you may correct me if i am wrong, though.
noname : I guess that pretty much sums it up :)
noname:
I see nothing "rude" about your comment. In fact you made the point I was reaching for.
I see nothing "rude" about your comment. In fact you made the point I was reaching for.
Now, where did everybody in this thread go? Some new elite secret invite only site?
Seriously, this thread shows a need of a board that can cater for the creative forces in the demoscene. To push things forward instead of falling into nitpicking, let's take a look at what is currently being done and what needs to be done. What is needed in terms of work and practicalities in order to make a troll free stand alone community OR designated demo making area on pouet really happen? It would have been neat to have some sort of realistic overview.
Referring to the initial intention of this thread, what is currently happening with scene.org? Did you get the feedback you needed, Gloom? Furthermore Gargaj mentioned pouet 2.0. Am I the only one to not get the joke (happens a lot) or is something about to change in here? Who are the pouetpeople who can make this happen? And Kusma mentioned something about changing scene.no into a simple php-board. Is this an alternative? Any other things that are currently stirring that needs (re-)mentioning?
Seriously, this thread shows a need of a board that can cater for the creative forces in the demoscene. To push things forward instead of falling into nitpicking, let's take a look at what is currently being done and what needs to be done. What is needed in terms of work and practicalities in order to make a troll free stand alone community OR designated demo making area on pouet really happen? It would have been neat to have some sort of realistic overview.
Referring to the initial intention of this thread, what is currently happening with scene.org? Did you get the feedback you needed, Gloom? Furthermore Gargaj mentioned pouet 2.0. Am I the only one to not get the joke (happens a lot) or is something about to change in here? Who are the pouetpeople who can make this happen? And Kusma mentioned something about changing scene.no into a simple php-board. Is this an alternative? Any other things that are currently stirring that needs (re-)mentioning?
hollowman: I'm following your c64 assembler course on Folkvägn from a distance, and you're doing a brilliant job of it. JSYK.
so...
1. Wait until there come additional BBS areas at pouet?
2. Use bitfellas or an alternative existing forum?
3. Start a new one?
Maybe smash should talk alien into adding a "closed demo creators area" at bitfellas and invite people which are leet enough...
1. Wait until there come additional BBS areas at pouet?
2. Use bitfellas or an alternative existing forum?
3. Start a new one?
Maybe smash should talk alien into adding a "closed demo creators area" at bitfellas and invite people which are leet enough...
The object of this thread was to spark debate and to get some ideas and suggestions going. I think it has fullfilled it's purpose quite nicely (even with the usual troll-crap, though in slightly smaller amounts than usual :)
Now it is time to take these ideas and suggestions and start grinding them down to a workable core. I know that the Scene.org staff has watched this thread (along with others, elsewhere on the interwibble) and whatever stuff they think is good, I'm sure will be discussed further and then put into practice.
I also think there are people who have spoken up here who have a clear and genuine interest in putting this into action (Pixtur, Gargaj, Archmage, Smash, Jar, Gasman etc.) so I suggest that those people get together on a mailinglist or whatever and start to figure out if you're really into doing something here. I'm sure this could be set up quite easily, and I invite you all to mail me (you probably know where :) and get things going.
Pixtur: Above (*snigger*) all, I think that one should not run out and to things to rashly. There needs to be some order to the madness that is demoscene cooperation. :) I would like to talk to you about that, so please mail me.
Archmage: I'm sure Gargaj can talk a bit more about "Pouet 2.0" if you let him. :)
Oh -- and everyone; I know we keep saying "Scene.org" here, but that doesn't have to mean that whatever comes out of this is Scene.org-branded. Pouet is hosted on Scene.org, remember? Now enjoy your weekend, you eager crazy crowd. :)
Now it is time to take these ideas and suggestions and start grinding them down to a workable core. I know that the Scene.org staff has watched this thread (along with others, elsewhere on the interwibble) and whatever stuff they think is good, I'm sure will be discussed further and then put into practice.
I also think there are people who have spoken up here who have a clear and genuine interest in putting this into action (Pixtur, Gargaj, Archmage, Smash, Jar, Gasman etc.) so I suggest that those people get together on a mailinglist or whatever and start to figure out if you're really into doing something here. I'm sure this could be set up quite easily, and I invite you all to mail me (you probably know where :) and get things going.
Pixtur: Above (*snigger*) all, I think that one should not run out and to things to rashly. There needs to be some order to the madness that is demoscene cooperation. :) I would like to talk to you about that, so please mail me.
Archmage: I'm sure Gargaj can talk a bit more about "Pouet 2.0" if you let him. :)
Oh -- and everyone; I know we keep saying "Scene.org" here, but that doesn't have to mean that whatever comes out of this is Scene.org-branded. Pouet is hosted on Scene.org, remember? Now enjoy your weekend, you eager crazy crowd. :)
Quote:
Gargaj mentioned pouet 2.0. Am I the only one to not get the joke (happens a lot) or is something about to change in here? Who are the pouetpeople who can make this happen?
i'm not promising anything, but i hope to get something to happen. to quote a great mentor, "FOR GREAT JUSTICE".
LOL GARGAJ SAID HE'LL CODE POUET 2.0 AND SCENE.ORG 2.0 AND RELEASE IT AT TUM!
LOL KB SAID HE'LL ADD SAMPLE SUPPORT TO V2 2.0 AND RELEASE IT AT TUM!
/me hugs kb ;)
/me hugs kb ;)
zing ;)
Archmage: already "done". (Not putting it on the front-page yet since I'm a lazy drunk lamer)
have an area for people to talk about what they do when they're not making, watchin, talking demos' or not at pouet or scene.org or other scene websites
cont... namely a 'get a life' section