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8088 Domination by Hornet [web]
screenshot added by sensenstahl on 2014-06-16 17:42:42
platform :
type :
release date : june 2014
release party : @party 2014
compo : oldskool demo
ranked : 1st
  • 92
  • 1
  • 2
popularity : 72%
  • 0.95
alltime top: #557
added on the 2014-06-16 14:59:53 by wysiwtf wysiwtf

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rulez added on the 2014-06-16 17:44:41 by sensenstahl sensenstahl
For the project as a whole. Also a sucker for b/w and 80x. Nice work.
rulez added on the 2014-06-16 18:44:43 by Baudsurfer Baudsurfer
Do note if you have a monitor/TV connected to the composite output, it's in color and not B/W :)

This was insane. More so when Trixter was describing how it worked after compos. Instead of a standard read/decompress/display loop, he basically wrote a compiler that would instead just encode the video data in a big, long executable streaming from the HDD, avoiding branching among other things.

Waiting eagerly for the write up. :D
rulez added on the 2014-06-16 18:55:02 by micksam7 micksam7
Excellent 8088 stuff once again!
rulez added on the 2014-06-16 20:07:10 by Scali Scali
I was very impressed by this. Even with 100 cycles on dosbox it still smooth enough without breaking sound. I am even impressed by the sound too. 30MBs of data for anim and sound, would it fit, how it's so fast (while streaming from the HD I guess), is there any compression involved or just raw WAV? Thinking of how slow the machine is, to see smooth video with such sound quality, wow!!!
rulez added on the 2014-06-16 20:35:56 by Optimus Optimus
rulez added on the 2014-06-16 23:29:28 by Buckethead Buckethead
pps in DosBOX set machine=cga to actually see the first part in color.
added on the 2014-06-17 03:10:39 by micksam7 micksam7
Glad y'all enjoyed it. I will definitely write up how I did it at some point, since I felt I came up with some very creative solutions to the problem. For now, enjoy a capture from the actual 1981 hardware: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWdG413nNkI

DOSBox runs it fine with mode=cga, but the colors are slightly off (breakdancer is red, but in dosbox he shows up as purple), so the youtube video is preferable.
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 07:57:38 by trixter trixter
Awesome stuff, too bad I don't have a 8088 with a working harddrive to actually try it. The lack of colors in the second part seem a bit of a shame though :)
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 08:18:24 by Harekiet Harekiet
I am speechless. Write up, please!
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 08:47:53 by Preacher Preacher
Wow, the color version looks very good!
added on the 2014-06-17 09:09:35 by Optimus Optimus
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 09:51:46 by noby noby
awesome tech
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 09:57:20 by ferris ferris
Neat idea to stream code instead of data to limit/kill the data processing time.
What is the transfer rate of a HDD from that time ?
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 10:27:51 by p01 p01
Awesome! Youtube link added. :)
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 10:32:58 by StingRay StingRay
Amazing. What I'm most impressed with is the algorithm optimisation, you've cut so much from the typical video playback setup you're left with unrolled raw code.. brilliant :D
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 11:05:13 by psonice psonice
Ohh, very nice, although instead the last part would've been nice to have some own stuff innit as now its just the music video :)
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 11:44:28 by leGend leGend
Mind blown.
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 11:56:21 by gloom gloom
cool idea on the playback. btw whats with all the artefacts (things left on the screen instead of removing them)? is it YT or is it in the original?
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 12:34:09 by Oswald Oswald
Streaming the code instead of data - that's the concept we never used on ZX Spectrum :) Thumb up!
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 13:05:56 by Alone_Coder Alone_Coder
As if it wasn't already technically brilliant, you had the heart to play Bad Apple.
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 13:14:27 by Trilkk Trilkk
This is a real 8088 masterpiece! Looks good even in B\W mode (I don't like run DOS demos in DOSBox since I have a dedicated machine (Pentium 250MMX with crappy Matrox VGA card) and I don't have plain CGA videocard).
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 14:28:19 by wbcbz7 wbcbz7
... this would get my CDC if i had any, so take this one here, until i have one again and nothing better comes along ;)

rulez added on the 2014-06-17 17:09:05 by HellMood HellMood
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 17:53:15 by bitl bitl
So, can someone change the screenshot to color, or one from the second part? :)

Looks and sounds great in Dosbox with cga and 200 cycles. It helps that the video and HD are much faster than the real thing. But I did watch this run on actual hardware, and let me say, it's surreal to watch it on a small IBM CRT.

At @party, I asked Trixter if he'd seen the new Atari ST hicolor video encoder. He did, and scoffed at a couple things: 1. 12.5 fps playback, and 2. it takes 1 hour on a PC to encode 1 minute of video. These things don't cut it for Jim. :)

Regarding the (appropriated) content, Trixter hoped people would focus on the technology instead. Displaying all the tech specs certainly helped. I can't help but recall Algorithm's C64 demos. Now we wait for the writeup!
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 18:34:29 by phoenix phoenix
I'd really like to read about the technical aspects of the prod.

BTW It reminds me of what can be achieved on 8bits machines streaming data out of SD-Cards: http://dcmoto.free.fr/programmes/sdmoanim/index.html and http://dcmoto.free.fr/programmes/sdmoto-elvis/index.html.

(Actually is is possible to have sound+video, but the download of http://forum.system-cfg.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=5053 is no more available)

.. or even IDE drive: http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=61550 ;-)
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 18:47:41 by __sam__ __sam__
cool prod
but selfvoting still sucks
sucks added on the 2014-06-17 19:24:53 by SiR SiR
Oops, I didn't notice that Trixter self-voted. He probably didn't realize that is taboo/verboten here. I had nothing to do with this prod so my thumb should still stand. :)
added on the 2014-06-17 19:35:40 by phoenix phoenix
AFAICS from the YT capture, 8088 Domination and ST hicolor video encoder & player are quite different. It seems that 8088 Domination splits the colors into different components displayed on their own scanline while the ST one encodes them as is and generate a picture with 48+ colors per scanline more or less for each frame of the video. This gives a high color fidelity but obviously this comes with a cost: rendering a full screen image alone takes 1-2 VBL, building/adjusting the "plasma" code to get the 48 colors per scanline can easily take 1 VBL, add some more for the data streaming and co and this give a 4 VBL.

They took a different approach, and this can only lead to a mix of ideas and better prods coming our way \:D/

Just my 50øre.
added on the 2014-06-17 21:05:11 by p01 p01
The self-voting was a total mistake, I thought I had to add a vote under Pouet 2.0 for the post to go through. If someone can edit the database to take my selfvote out, that would be appreciated, thanks.

I swear I'm working on the write-up and will try to have it out in a few days. There's a lot to cover. I'll post here when I have it posted somewhere.

@Oswald: Artifacts are last-minute mistakes on my part and are present in the production.
added on the 2014-06-17 21:16:42 by trixter trixter
PC SUX. Which is why this is impressive ;-)
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 21:24:00 by xeron xeron
CGA! 8088! Bad Apple!
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 21:25:38 by Tronix Tronix
Haha, mad stuff!
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 21:28:21 by okkie okkie
Wicked! Looking forward to the write-up.
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 21:37:49 by Kylearan Kylearan
If I find some time, there's going to be Jumalauta GBA HACK release of this too!
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 22:23:17 by annieeee annieeee
Still nothing but ultimate respect for Trixter, one of my demoscene heroes!
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 22:35:54 by rc55 rc55
by trixter:
The self-voting was a total mistake, I thought I had to add a vote under Pouet 2.0 for the post to go through. If someone can edit the database to take my selfvote out, that would be appreciated, thanks.
You do, but people seem to prefer you leave the vote setting to piggie ("is ok"). This is the default, but the option to vote even if you have commented as long as you didn't choose to up or downvote the production. Unfortunately if they disabled voting for everyone associated with a production, participants in collective works (music disks) would be unable to upvote all the rest of the hardwork.

Anyway ...

That said, it's a mistake so I don't care. This is pretty cool regardless.
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 22:44:31 by Starchaser Starchaser
Correction: "This is the default, but the option to vote remains even if you have commented already as long as those comments weren't an upvote or downvote."
Cool prod.
But downvoting it because the creator upvoted it still sucks ... Sir. ;)
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 23:02:06 by gaspode gaspode
How. The. Hell.
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 23:16:16 by Saga Musix Saga Musix
Sick as hell...

Tho is still think that 8088 Corruption was better :)
rulez added on the 2014-06-17 23:20:55 by TomoAlien TomoAlien
No words needed....
rulez added on the 2014-06-18 00:15:04 by CiH CiH
Kudos on the Rick Rolling. I should have seen that coming.
If someone ever figures out how to send files back in time, this would be a great one to do it with. Guess you just have to settle for blowing everybody's mind in the present.
rulez added on the 2014-06-18 10:15:28 by jmph jmph
Trixter is awesome.
rulez added on the 2014-06-18 11:02:40 by sagacity sagacity
Very cool.
rulez added on the 2014-06-18 12:00:27 by elmindreda elmindreda
Aaamiiig... Err, wait, what?
rulez added on the 2014-06-18 15:02:22 by Charlie Charlie
rulez added on the 2014-06-18 17:40:01 by raer raer
Never gonna give you up....
rulez added on the 2014-06-18 17:53:36 by Triace Triace
rulez added on the 2014-06-18 20:37:50 by Tjoppen Tjoppen
cool prod, and a just little selfvoting is fine to me :)
rulez added on the 2014-06-18 21:40:25 by mueslee mueslee
Just awesome :)
rulez added on the 2014-06-18 22:25:36 by Nitro/Black Sun Nitro/Black Sun
rulez added on the 2014-06-18 22:33:34 by blueghost blueghost
I have no real relationship to 8088, but the show was cool and smooth.
rulez added on the 2014-06-18 23:53:41 by JAC! JAC!
rulez added on the 2014-06-19 13:52:38 by bonefish bonefish
hot stuff!
rulez added on the 2014-06-19 16:15:36 by superplek superplek
rulez added on the 2014-06-20 23:14:42 by halcy halcy
The artifacts kinda look like the encoder diffed each frame against the last source frame, not the last encoded+decoded one (or you should shuffle the sorted delta list a bit) :)

Apart from that: Flawless victory.
rulez added on the 2014-06-20 23:19:59 by kb_ kb_
Finished the entire write-up! Enjoy!
added on the 2014-06-20 23:28:37 by trixter trixter
Very interesting achievement and extra thumb for publishing a write-up!
rulez added on the 2014-06-20 23:29:05 by Rob Rob
kb_: The encoder compares against both (last source frame or last decoded frame) depending on what thresholds you give it. But I think what you're seeing are "trails" that aren't cleaned up when some of the more aggressive optimizations are turned on; write-up conclusion has more details.
added on the 2014-06-20 23:30:44 by trixter trixter
nice hax!
rulez added on the 2014-06-20 23:35:21 by gentleman gentleman
rulez added on the 2014-06-21 09:22:02 by Jerware Jerware
trixter, you mean this actually runs on an IBM PC from the time? What do you use to store the massive files?? :D
added on the 2014-06-21 10:52:25 by Photon Photon
rulez added on the 2014-06-21 11:27:07 by micdune micdune
I remember this!
rulez added on the 2014-06-21 13:39:13 by AntDude AntDude
(In complement to my previous message)

Indeed the 8088 compares pretty fairly with what can be done on a 8bit machine: Here is a win-exe emulator preconfigured to play a Thomson MO5 demo performing 22Khz audio (monophonic) and 50fps (monochromatic) on that 8bit machine.

Streaming code has not been tested on the MO5, but looks promising for 8bits as well. I look forward seeing a demo for the Thomson using the same technique.

(BTW other Thomson demos are available here. You can look at them if you don't know that platform yet.)
added on the 2014-06-21 15:17:12 by __sam__ __sam__
@Photon: Files take up 30MB; a 32MB RLL drive could store them. I use an XT-IDE variant with a CF card whenever I can though, since eliminating seek times helps make the system feel a little more snappy.
added on the 2014-06-21 23:29:36 by trixter trixter
Amazing !!!!
rulez added on the 2014-06-22 03:27:38 by Black Dragon Black Dragon
My first work PC was a 4.77 MHz 8088... sweet
rulez added on the 2014-06-22 04:40:52 by CrzyClst CrzyClst
p.s., the Rick Astley interruption is just wrong...
added on the 2014-06-22 05:06:48 by CrzyClst CrzyClst
trixter, yes, I guess it would stutter if you used the original harddisk.

Regarding your video capture, the IBM 5160 you use (the first PC to support harddisks) came in 1983, not 1981. And of course the 1992 sound card you picked is necessary to get anything out of a 5160 except squawks and beeps :D
added on the 2014-06-22 15:06:58 by Photon Photon
rulez added on the 2014-06-22 15:39:38 by iks iks
@Photon: It doesn't stutter using the original hard disk. It might pause once or twice to rebuffer, but I was careful to stay without that disk's bandwidth limits (around 90KB/s if the interleave is optimal).

Original presentation at @party was on a 1981 PC with a 1982 CGA card, a 1989 Sound Blaster, and a 1990 hard disk controller. Draw your own conclusions :)
added on the 2014-06-22 18:54:26 by trixter trixter
Neat! Could you fit Moleman 2 on a real 8088 for future party showings? ;)
rulez added on the 2014-06-22 19:31:19 by visy visy
(sound of fapping)
rulez added on the 2014-06-22 22:44:53 by argasek argasek
love it :D, great!

maybe a bit too much artifacts remain, especially in the dark tron 2 scene... I know there is a bandwidth limit but you could fix the atifacts frame by frame in a similar manner, a bit too much junk remains there and a bit harder to make sense of the picture.
rulez added on the 2014-06-23 00:35:14 by musk musk
As c64 sceners we are familiar with generating code blocks like that. Very nice implementation on 8088, congratulations.
rulez added on the 2014-06-23 12:15:00 by Skate Skate
this is awesome.
rulez added on the 2014-06-24 09:03:24 by urs urs
epic. mind blown.
rulez added on the 2014-06-25 01:11:55 by svo svo
rulez added on the 2014-06-26 16:48:25 by ɧ4ɾɗվ. ɧ4ɾɗվ.
Quite a hack.
rulez added on the 2014-06-27 21:28:39 by zefyros zefyros
old good IBM PC!
rulez added on the 2014-06-28 17:14:52 by ded^RMDA ded^RMDA
Awesome stuff for an 8088!
rulez added on the 2014-06-30 17:49:59 by MaV0910 MaV0910
Looks good, Thumbs Up! I hope somebody does it for mass storage equipped speccy or Atari 8bit as well. The C64 remake of the 2nd part suxx.
rulez added on the 2014-06-30 23:17:45 by Hoild Hoild
Hats off. Thats crazy!
rulez added on the 2014-07-01 14:04:02 by whizart whizart
Trixter / Jim Leonard, I love yooouuuuuuu! So many hours of entertainment with hornet.org, oldskool.org, mindcandy and now this. *BOWS*
rulez added on the 2014-07-02 20:45:44 by aricz aricz
Congrats Trixter for Achieving what you say was impossible! :) So many IBM PC stuff you achieve these past few years... make me wonder, what's next?
rulez added on the 2014-07-04 20:30:53 by F-Cycles F-Cycles
awesome indeed
rulez added on the 2014-07-04 20:49:40 by provod provod
well done.
rulez added on the 2014-07-05 00:04:40 by las las
:) fab <3
rulez added on the 2014-07-06 04:08:27 by ne7 ne7
Another Proove that you don't need fancy shaders to make a skilled and interesting demo... Keep up the good work.
rulez added on the 2014-07-07 10:15:42 by cryer cryer
awesome demo is awesome
rulez added on the 2014-07-07 15:51:13 by utz utz
Trixter: just keeping things real. You're using a 1981 CPU to make your replayer code awezomez, and you'd really like that superoldiez cred (hence '8088 Domination'), but you need a 1990 PC to run the prod with any sound at all and without awkward pauses.

Just seems a niched or hand-picked combination of expansion cards. For example, people would have upgraded from CGA long before they got a Soundblaster.
added on the 2014-07-08 01:51:35 by Photon Photon
photon is right somehow, could have just abused a 386 SX and put even more awesome in.
anyway, great achievement!
rulez added on the 2014-07-08 02:03:03 by wysiwtf wysiwtf
rulez added on the 2014-07-11 11:38:25 by Manwe Manwe
Insane... and absolutely fabulous!
rulez added on the 2014-07-12 19:21:31 by Daniel Daniel
rulez added on the 2014-07-12 21:58:31 by Maraakate Maraakate
!!! wow !!!
rulez added on the 2014-07-16 18:38:41 by Emod Emod
i wonder how many IBMs had > 20MB of harddisk (mine had only 2 360k floppies, and the first pc with 20MB HD already had EGA and 8086 @ 8 MHz...)

would be even greater with using the pc honker or covox - SB was usually a VGA/286+ thingy :)

Anyway, great to see that oldschool is not just for the motorola farts ;)
rulez added on the 2014-07-19 21:54:17 by T$ T$
The system that I developed for the demo can create videos that play off of floppy disk too; it's all a matter of bandwidth management. But no way honker or covox, since those methods pretty much take over the entire system when playing audio.

Working on releasing the source; will post here when done.
added on the 2014-08-07 22:20:17 by trixter trixter
Source and encoder released.

added on the 2014-08-12 23:00:26 by phoenix phoenix
Really impressive what people can do with hardware that costs something like two monthly wages, expanded with additional cards that cost an arm and a leg, all packed into a file that occupies an entire hard drive that costs like a used car.
sucks added on the 2014-11-04 11:30:44 by DJ Fistfuck DJ Fistfuck
Protip: Integrate pixel errors over time and threshold those values to decide if a pixel should be updated for this frame.
rulez added on the 2015-03-18 17:36:07 by dr_evil dr_evil
BB ImageBB ImageBB ImageBB ImageBB ImageBB ImageBB ImageBB ImageBB Image
rulez added on the 2015-07-17 21:04:31 by cxw cxw
just wow
rulez added on the 2016-09-07 04:50:34 by 1in10 1in10
rulez added on the 2018-01-02 09:40:31 by Zavie Zavie
So I got rickrolled. Literally.

Good product by the way.
rulez added on the 2020-02-28 19:34:31 by vitalkanev vitalkanev
Am I late? Anyway, solid production. Even got me rickrolled - very unexpected I may add!
rulez added on the 2020-04-27 22:57:29 by BSC BSC
I'm absolutely blown away by this and some other productions that show off not only what can be achieved despite the mediocrity of the hardware (relative to other hardware available at the time), but also the lack of imagination of the original creators as to what it could do! There was no "hacker culture" at IBM that allowed them to even get close to pushing the limits of the hardware in anything but the most by-the-book ways. And to think which graphics standards could have existed back then if the hardware creators were able or allowed to explore what their hardware could actually do!
rulez added on the 2020-08-27 11:58:42 by ltning ltning

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