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Vicious SID by Masters' Design Group [web] & Onslaught [web] & Origo Dreamline
screenshot added by scoutski on 2008-10-30 12:48:02
platform :
type :
release date : october 2008
release party : X 2008
compo : c64 demo
ranked : not shown
  • rulez 48
  • is ok 7
  • sucks 0
popularity : 64%
 64%
  • rulez 0.87
  • cdcs 1
alltime top: #1873
added on the 2008-10-30 12:47:48 by scoutski scoutski

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It was shown but you couldn't vote for it on the votedisks because it was forgotten to be added :-(

About the prod: 8bit samples, 4 channel mod-replay, sample replay using the VIC (!!!) chip.
Fapfapfap!
rulez added on the 2008-10-30 12:50:33 by scoutski scoutski
Oh...use a *real* c64.
Seems that Hoxs64 gives a better result than Vice.
added on the 2008-10-30 12:51:42 by scoutski scoutski
Amiga mods on the C64, impressive and revolutionary! Indeed works better in Hoxs64 than in WinVice, even though the VIC noise part requires real hardware.
rulez added on the 2008-10-30 12:56:59 by Alpha C Alpha C
Revolution!
rulez added on the 2008-10-30 13:09:43 by Sander Sander
any clues about the replay quality?
added on the 2008-10-30 14:18:17 by havoc havoc
Cool!

Btw,. this is not the only missing demo from X? Was there a dekadence/extend demo that was not shown I think? Will this be released?
rulez added on the 2008-10-30 14:21:47 by Optimus Optimus
Wow. Guess i'll have to set up my C64 at some point.

Any chance of a description of the method? I'd love to read about it.
added on the 2008-10-30 14:30:42 by xeron xeron
@havoc: yes, excellent. for the vic-samplereplay part you have to hear closely.

@optimus: yes and yes, as soon they bugfixed it.

@xeron: read the scrollers for some info. otherwise ask soundemon @ irc (#c-64, ircnet)
added on the 2008-10-30 15:02:49 by scoutski scoutski
@optimus: and the extend demo was shown. dunno who made that not-shown rumour up.
added on the 2008-10-30 15:04:54 by scoutski scoutski
Wow! That's serious audio wizardry in here!
rulez added on the 2008-10-30 15:08:20 by Gʀɪʍʍy Gʀɪʍʍy
@scoutski: it's nowhere there in the results
added on the 2008-10-30 15:16:51 by Optimus Optimus
@optimus: indeed, because they gave me the disk when the demo-compo was already going on (=beyond deadline).
but we showed it anyway.
added on the 2008-10-30 15:18:18 by scoutski scoutski
!!!! 8x
rulez added on the 2008-10-30 15:23:47 by Buckethead Buckethead
how do you run hoxs64 under vista? It looks for dx9 (vista has dx10)
added on the 2008-10-30 15:28:16 by chriz74 chriz74
wtf? 4 channel mods?
rulez added on the 2008-10-30 15:54:38 by mad mad
Whoa - sample or video pls?
rulez added on the 2008-10-30 15:57:08 by ruairi [rc55] ruairi [rc55]
for the ones intrested: I will attempt to record the vic-noise samples tonight IF they work on my c64... apparently they don't work on all machines...

furthermore, this kixx ass.
rulez added on the 2008-10-30 16:03:21 by knoeki 🍼 knoeki 🍼
Cheers Knoeki
I need to watch this on my c64...asap! :)

ugh, i have no real idea how you are getting the VIC to produce sound. is it some kind of voltage interference trick between the VIC and audio output circuitry?

id really like to know how its done
added on the 2008-10-30 16:18:40 by button button
can someone record this from the machine?
added on the 2008-10-30 16:45:12 by xernobyl xernobyl
awesome!
rulez added on the 2008-10-30 17:49:20 by Bardur Bardur
No tinnitus samples, just pure magic. I think it was good that the last tune had some glitches, to remind me during the compo that it was actually a c64 playing. Also very fresh graphics.
rulez added on the 2008-10-30 19:37:20 by hollowman hollowman
Graphics chip playing 8 bit sounds?! That's hackercred +++!
rulez added on the 2008-10-30 23:25:46 by Emod Emod
Absolutely in-fucking-credible. Most groundbreaking demo in ages.
rulez added on the 2008-10-31 00:27:45 by sasq sasq
cool.. but why not using a better mod? Like some romeo knight or uncle tom one for example.
added on the 2008-10-31 11:40:43 by chriz74 chriz74
Wow those 8-bit samples in the first part of the second side are so clear! Unbelievable to hear it coming from my 64 :)
rulez added on the 2008-10-31 15:47:42 by linde linde
mp3 or gtfo ;)
added on the 2008-10-31 19:29:12 by Virgill Virgill
when will they do 16-bit sampling?
rulez added on the 2008-11-01 00:42:38 by jazzman jazzman
my personal winner from x2008.
even it was not on the votedisk, shame :(
rulezcdc added on the 2008-11-01 12:22:06 by elkmoose elkmoose
rulez added on the 2008-11-01 21:41:04 by Queen_Luna Queen_Luna
I'm gonna give this a thumb from the description alone.... I really really really need to get my C64 out for cool stuff like this, as soon as I figure out a way to get it off the internets onto floppy this is.
rulez added on the 2008-11-02 23:55:30 by the-other-pigpen the-other-pigpen
Wow, really cool c64 sounds!

MP3 files of the soundtrack: http://www.scs-trc.net/x08/music/vicious_sid_mp3.zip
rulez added on the 2008-11-03 00:04:44 by Sverker Sverker
Okay if thats what it sounds like I really am going to drag out my C64.....

Cheers for the MP3 dood!
Yeah thx
Just awesome
Ok, so what does it do to play 8 bit samples? Clever abuse of the envelope generators?
rulez added on the 2008-11-03 01:01:08 by Calexico Calexico
So clever.
rulez added on the 2008-11-03 21:55:56 by xeron xeron
teh roxxor, also good title
rulez added on the 2008-11-03 23:12:50 by cruzer cruzer
Here´s my thumb. Thanks for the mp3!
rulez added on the 2008-11-05 20:13:53 by Virgill Virgill
Thumb up the butt for soundis & pals
rulez added on the 2008-11-05 20:33:36 by britelite britelite
crazy shit
rulez added on the 2008-11-05 21:24:55 by nosfe nosfe
damn cool stuff.
rulez added on the 2008-11-07 19:58:59 by thec thec
!
rulez added on the 2008-11-09 10:35:41 by Mystra Mystra
Yeah! Crazy indeed...
This tune is not my cup of tea, but i must thumb it up for the technical magic.
rulez added on the 2008-11-18 11:01:18 by untel untel
rox
rulez added on the 2008-11-21 19:02:37 by gentleman gentleman
This rounds up the fabulous X2008-competition of this year. Could have won several other parties with a fingertip ;)
rulez added on the 2008-11-25 22:06:46 by vscd vscd
Hi there.
I will check it out later at home, I'm very interested.
Before that I have several questions.
1) what is quality of VIC chip sound? 1bit? 4bit?
2) how many real channels come from VIC chip? One (then 4chnls would be achieved by software mixing)? Real Four?
Thanx, guys.
The idea is superb.
@YERZMYEY
I'm guessing the sound is 1bit. As far as I can tell, it relies on the audio interference you get when you have high contrast video output (i'm sure any C64 owner noticed it when putting white text on black). It switches the background and border between black and white to modulate that interference.

I guess you could use greyscale to achieve more resolution, but the sound is so weak i don't know if it would make it sound any better.
added on the 2008-11-26 10:39:53 by xeron xeron
@xeron: FAIL! Stop guessing.
added on the 2008-11-26 10:42:36 by scoutski scoutski
Then tell us, please.
added on the 2008-11-26 10:45:37 by xeron xeron
Best musicdemo ever!! (well, at least technically..)
It is just as amazing as when I heard samples first time on the C64 in 1985..!
There are still new tricks to do 26 years after the machine came out...
This is exactly what making demos is about: to do the impossible!
rulez added on the 2008-11-26 10:49:07 by gfbtm gfbtm
oh, scoutski, not for the first time I notice your usefulness equals zero. thank you very much for your wise statement. most impressive (as always).

Mods are nothing new on other 8bitters (like Atari XL, Spectrum, Sam Coupe) so there is nothing to be excited of.
Also I can hear filters so this filteres sound comes from Sid, NOT Vic.

and finally - there are no real Mods in this demo, what authors admit.

Not bad experiment so I give a "pig". But it's a far way before C64 to to catch up with other 8bitters that played Mods in mid 90s. So please, don't get excited...
added on the 2008-11-26 13:54:59 by abscess abscess
and abscess seems to be clueless as always...

the filters come from the SID, as the sounds are played by the SID. and there's ONE single part that has sounds produced by the VIC, which naturally aren't filtered.

Oh, and can you please point me to an atari xl or spectrum demo that actually plays REAL mods? And it's not like we haven't heard mods on the c64 before, just not with this soundquality.
added on the 2008-11-26 14:33:34 by britelite britelite
@abcess: you're absolutely right. the reason i'm here is just to piss you off.
Furthermore I don't feel like sharing my real point of view/codinginfo with a bunch of clueless atari/cpc/spectrum pissheads here @ pouet.
added on the 2008-11-26 16:05:23 by scoutski scoutski
Yerzmyey: Its an idea that evolved from ideas on some talk on IRC chat from various people(me too). Its basicly about using the Waveform & other registers to produce some kind of filtered samples at a high playback quality. Its generally a mix of a few techniques to achieve best sound quality with small effort. I think the vic is only involved as generating the Interrupt, so you dont have to synch everything by code and have more free time for graphics.
rulez added on the 2008-11-26 17:01:45 by Exin Exin
I've checked it out on some emul (vision + some audio) & most music on the MP3 files.
The prod *rulez*.

For us it's very impressive that moving screen and so many effects are present while playing multichannel digital music (as far as I know only one demo has such fx while digitrax, on our scene).

Congratz for the authors and - we want more! ;)
rulez added on the 2008-11-26 19:30:31 by YERZMYEY/H-PRG YERZMYEY/H-PRG
@Exin
But there is one section that is just VIC sound, no SID involved. That was the section i was talking about.

Unless scoutski gives us a description, I still think i'm on the right track, since $D020 and $D021 are toggling between black and white, and the scrolltext mentions that the scroller itself causes noise on the output, so really, what can it be other than modulating the VIC interference on the sound output by toggling colours?
added on the 2008-11-27 09:55:22 by xeron xeron
scoutski
Haha, the only thing what could Scoutski The Primitive Pisshead do (as a man permanently deprived of resonable arguments) was only childish insulting me. Soooo pityful! :) I'm really amused because also he assumed I'm a fan of Atari, Spectrum and so on, and - without real arguments (there are no such in C64 matter) - he wanted to insult also machines he thought I could be fond of. How old are you, scoutski, 5? :) Probably less. No, my son, I am not a fan od 8 bit devices. I'm interested in PC scene (no go ahead - spit also on PC scene, boy, you can do nothing more :) ).
But I like to know what other scenes do and - in opposite to c64 hooded order - I know that multichannel digital music composed in fine quality on trackers is popular on Atari, Sam, Spectrum for 10 years.

britelite
good one, really: britelite repeated after me my own senteces that this music comes from sid, that vic sound is not filtered, and after all of this he still decorated his wise statement by calling me "clueless". :) Haha. This is a consequence very typical for britelite, yes.
As for "pointing anything": no - I will not point you programs that actually plays REAL mods - LOOK FOR THEM YOURSELF, try SOMETIMES to tear yourself away from c64 and check it out, it will not kill you. (Although other members of your order might do it. Yes).
I can only suggest you that there are plenty od mods for example on Atari XL, played by regular pokey, with every require mod's commands, in good 4bit quality (that is so "new" on c64). Ask the atari fans. Watch. Listen. Open your mind.
Oh, who do I talk to...?

yermeey
I don't know why you are so polite? You must realize that this demo is funny (at most) in comparison to your scene's achievements. Also read scoutski (typical c64 user) and notice that he doesn't deserve politeness but pity.

Btw, I still think the demo is really not bad.
added on the 2008-11-28 13:02:17 by abscess abscess
"in good 4bit quality (that is so "new" on c64)."

this demo plays mods at 8 bits.
added on the 2008-11-28 13:11:09 by Oswald Oswald
as I said, clueless
added on the 2008-11-28 13:40:38 by britelite britelite
Entertaining thread ;)

As for the demo: Rocks of course!
rulez added on the 2008-11-28 14:09:18 by StingRay StingRay
Well,
how many MOD players should I list here for Atari XL/XE !? We have 4 bit Pokey MOD players for 64k and for upgraded machines, like MODplayer by the Gatekeeper, Soundtracker 1, 2, 3; Fampy 2.3 by Friday Software, Fampy 6.1 (uses 6bit playback) also by Friday software to name just a few ones...

If we add some DAC`s to Pokey, we can playback MOD`s or WAV`s or digisounds with 8bit; this simple enhancement is called Covox on the A8 and therefore we have Inertia 2.x, Inertia 3.x and Inertia 4.x MOD players by MadTeam, Protracker 1.5 by MadTeam (MOD player + editor), NEO-Editor by EPI (plays MOD, NEO and SMP) and many many others...

You want a demo production which plays MOD on the A8 ?!? Well, there are several ones by Friday Software (author of Fampy) or check out "Impossible but Real" which plays a MOD while doing some nice 3D stuff (wait for the last part of that demo to hear the MOD)...

This is no criticism, just some information about A8 MOD players... for the ones interested. No comment for this demo, since I do not own a C64 (and never owned one), so I don`t know if this demo is really good or not regarding its sound... -Andreas Koch.
yay! looks good :)
rulez added on the 2009-01-07 07:45:08 by D4XX D4XX
No words to describe the awesomeness. Flawless modplay I must say!
rulez added on the 2009-01-11 15:49:57 by noby noby
most impressive
rulez added on the 2009-01-23 17:38:04 by Paralax Paralax
Rules. A pity it didn't make it into the competition to get some further attention that is certainly deserves. Looking forward to further productions taking advantage of this routine.
rulez added on the 2009-01-30 11:19:00 by Jazzcat Jazzcat
Fantastic. And I do think that some people need to develop both a bit more self-esteem and a lot more manners.
rulez added on the 2009-01-30 11:21:05 by Preacher Preacher
sounds very nice to me.
rulez added on the 2009-04-20 00:49:21 by comankh comankh
C64 is the new Amiga ;)
is there already a tracker based on this routine?
rulez added on the 2009-04-20 01:18:37 by xyz xyz
Amazing
rulez added on the 2009-04-26 14:31:59 by Joghurt Joghurt
WOW.
rulez added on the 2009-04-28 14:17:34 by DUAL DUAL
srsly, WTF: enlighten me: how did you do it?
(it even works in VICE..)
added on the 2009-04-29 22:37:20 by xyz xyz
pure awesomeness.
rulez added on the 2009-06-25 19:21:21 by Saga Musix Saga Musix
Heh, works pretty well on a real C64. The VIC noise part is bad for the eyes though!
simply incredible.
VIC Part is supersweet.
rulez added on the 2010-08-25 05:39:14 by shock__ shock__
WoW
rulez added on the 2010-09-26 09:59:17 by w00t! w00t!
It amazed me!
What a sweet sounds!
Hey! "no sid part" is audible on some old emulators!
rulez added on the 2011-10-22 14:55:56 by zbyndek zbyndek
Massive respect! Very satisfying tech demo. Very satisfying tech. Very satisfying.
rulez added on the 2017-11-17 18:13:52 by introspec introspec

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