[BP survey] Is there a way for a fair entrance fee?
category: general [glöplog]
I want to say thank you to the people who filled out the Breakpoint survey. The comments were often positive and/or gave thanks. Now, I want to take the chance to get in contact with you to discuss some of the points. If pouët is too much like kindergarten for you (that is, you don't feel you can discuss serious matters here) you can still mail me by mail bp (@) 32x (.) de or at Symphony 2004.
My first topic: Some ppl asked for a discount for east european sceners because they earn less money than the average north/west/south-european. If you look at a map you can see Bingen is centered for north-, west- and south-european sceners but a bit far for east-european sceners. Some smaller parties (like Evoke or tUM) offered a discount for non-german or far traveling sceners. Unfortunately with a high percentage (about 2/3) foreign sceners, for Breakpoint this solution wouldn't be feasable. In addition, the costs per person this year were about 12 Euros higher than the entrance fee. (For more details, see the survey results page at http://breakpoint.untergrund.net/survey.php.) We could not pay the additional difference from sponsor money without losing some of the (important) party features.
So please - Let's discuss your opinions about this situation, and maybe we can find a solution. And even though this is pouët, please try to keep this thread on topic.
Btw, some weeks before Breakpoint we got a mail from Australia: "Let me say, if I had a spare two thousand $$$ I'd be over in a flash." :)
My first topic: Some ppl asked for a discount for east european sceners because they earn less money than the average north/west/south-european. If you look at a map you can see Bingen is centered for north-, west- and south-european sceners but a bit far for east-european sceners. Some smaller parties (like Evoke or tUM) offered a discount for non-german or far traveling sceners. Unfortunately with a high percentage (about 2/3) foreign sceners, for Breakpoint this solution wouldn't be feasable. In addition, the costs per person this year were about 12 Euros higher than the entrance fee. (For more details, see the survey results page at http://breakpoint.untergrund.net/survey.php.) We could not pay the additional difference from sponsor money without losing some of the (important) party features.
So please - Let's discuss your opinions about this situation, and maybe we can find a solution. And even though this is pouët, please try to keep this thread on topic.
Btw, some weeks before Breakpoint we got a mail from Australia: "Let me say, if I had a spare two thousand $$$ I'd be over in a flash." :)
I bet if the guys from Poland etc didnt buy drugs and whores for all the money they earn from stealing our cars they could afford BP quite well.
it's not like the entrance fee is the most expensive part of BP...
i'm with gargaj, BP is far from outragious in costs.
MadenMann : Hello, I just try to help :) . I did not understand why you have to pay for tables, chairs and room. It is not possible in your country to have a place/room for free ? given by the local politics autorities ? Socialism and "the fact to share public rooms for culture events" is killed in Germany for now ?
About the price, yes, BP is too much expensive, and i did not come from an east country, i come from France and we are more and more poor here, about 50 percent of the people are poor now. (60M people, 30M too young and too old, 30M can work but 3M are unemployed and 2M live with social help, 5M win less than 1000 euros per month, and a flat cost about 500 to 1500 euros per month)
About 'how win some euros', why did you not win euros with food ? in every party food prices are 20% more high to help party funds
Toilets 2.00 = whoo, you have gold toilets with this price! and why not ask a reduced price here ? hire yourself the people for cleaning toilets...
Tables and chairs 3.50 + Location rental 1.00 + City fees 0.50 = have them for free! ask your local politic people like town mayor, say him his city will be published in magazines and tvs, invit him to speak in the end of the party...
Party tents, stages, floor in sleeping hall 7.00 = i did not understand their usage, you have a party place, why pay for tents ? floor are unuseful, we can sleep on grass or cement, you can have old floors for free, ask your local shop for the trash...
Swimming bath 1.00 = useful ? perhaps only the users can pay this feature ?
Heating equipment 3.50 + Heating oil 4.00 = whooo, expensive! it is not possible to use electricty intead of oil? perhaps it can be more cheap to add this to the computer electricity
so, perhaps you can save 1+5+6+1+4=17 euros
and win perhaps 1 or 2 euros per people with tax food, so it's perhaps possible to have an entrance fee from 52euros goes to 52-19=33euros -12euros(sponsor)=21 euros per scener!
make the entrance at 25, save 4 euros per people, and if you save some money, push it in bank account to buy a beamer for next year for example, and year after year you'll decrease entrance fees :)
I just gives you examples, it is not useful to buy everything, lots of time you can use old things from old expositions or trash ;)
Perhaps asking other party organizers(from lots of various countries) directly will be useful for you...
About the price, yes, BP is too much expensive, and i did not come from an east country, i come from France and we are more and more poor here, about 50 percent of the people are poor now. (60M people, 30M too young and too old, 30M can work but 3M are unemployed and 2M live with social help, 5M win less than 1000 euros per month, and a flat cost about 500 to 1500 euros per month)
About 'how win some euros', why did you not win euros with food ? in every party food prices are 20% more high to help party funds
Toilets 2.00 = whoo, you have gold toilets with this price! and why not ask a reduced price here ? hire yourself the people for cleaning toilets...
Tables and chairs 3.50 + Location rental 1.00 + City fees 0.50 = have them for free! ask your local politic people like town mayor, say him his city will be published in magazines and tvs, invit him to speak in the end of the party...
Party tents, stages, floor in sleeping hall 7.00 = i did not understand their usage, you have a party place, why pay for tents ? floor are unuseful, we can sleep on grass or cement, you can have old floors for free, ask your local shop for the trash...
Swimming bath 1.00 = useful ? perhaps only the users can pay this feature ?
Heating equipment 3.50 + Heating oil 4.00 = whooo, expensive! it is not possible to use electricty intead of oil? perhaps it can be more cheap to add this to the computer electricity
so, perhaps you can save 1+5+6+1+4=17 euros
and win perhaps 1 or 2 euros per people with tax food, so it's perhaps possible to have an entrance fee from 52euros goes to 52-19=33euros -12euros(sponsor)=21 euros per scener!
make the entrance at 25, save 4 euros per people, and if you save some money, push it in bank account to buy a beamer for next year for example, and year after year you'll decrease entrance fees :)
I just gives you examples, it is not useful to buy everything, lots of time you can use old things from old expositions or trash ;)
Perhaps asking other party organizers(from lots of various countries) directly will be useful for you...
zone, if you'd ever been to BP you'd know that heating up the location requires diesel power!
zone, you really haven't got a clue do you...
Rasmus : true, i was not here, too much expensive for me now, i must eat everyday :(
Okkie : i just see other partys are about 20 euros only, and be free for girls and foreign people. it's not magic, there is a solution somewhere :) have you it ? me not, but i try to help :p
Okkie : i just see other partys are about 20 euros only, and be free for girls and foreign people. it's not magic, there is a solution somewhere :) have you it ? me not, but i try to help :p
Zone, could it be that BP is a big party and can't be held at a school or a local community center?
I don't think BP tickets were expensive, and even though I'm a student and dirt poor, I would've come all the way from Finland unless I didn't have exams coming up..
I don't think BP tickets were expensive, and even though I'm a student and dirt poor, I would've come all the way from Finland unless I didn't have exams coming up..
Zone, you're a ridiculous and bitter man. That stuff about magazines, TV-shows and city majors really does it.. :) What are you thinking about, an international movie festival?
Next to the fact that Gargaj is right, you'd better be looking for a little financial improvement or success if you can't afford the entrance fee instead of laming around at demoparties, talking crap about totally fair costs.
Losers. Pay the price or stay home.
Next to the fact that Gargaj is right, you'd better be looking for a little financial improvement or success if you can't afford the entrance fee instead of laming around at demoparties, talking crap about totally fair costs.
Losers. Pay the price or stay home.
zone: no offense to you in any way mate! but the party you post is in no comparrising to bp :)
zone: your ideas are truely impressing, but simply won't work out. do you really believe the orgas wouldn't have done all that if it was possible ? afaik it was hard enough to get the location, so I guess there was not any chance at all to get it for free or paid by the city.
floors: yes, you surely can get a few pieces for free, but not enough for a huge hall.
and no, you really really are not in favor of sleeping on cement at the breakpoint location around easter.
heating with electricity ? bp ? take a look at the location, then take your favourite physics book and read some chapters about termal issues...
and btw... I'm not sure whether you ever organized a huge event (which is several hundred or more people then...), but if you did then you should know that there are many many not-so-obvious things that kill alot of money. and that start people to shout "commercial!!"
50eur for a 4day party isn't that much at all.
I'm aware of the fact, that alot of sceners don't have as much monetary resources as other sceners, but asking party organizers to lower the prices which might end up in a financial disaster for them isn't the right solution as well.
floors: yes, you surely can get a few pieces for free, but not enough for a huge hall.
and no, you really really are not in favor of sleeping on cement at the breakpoint location around easter.
heating with electricity ? bp ? take a look at the location, then take your favourite physics book and read some chapters about termal issues...
and btw... I'm not sure whether you ever organized a huge event (which is several hundred or more people then...), but if you did then you should know that there are many many not-so-obvious things that kill alot of money. and that start people to shout "commercial!!"
50eur for a 4day party isn't that much at all.
I'm aware of the fact, that alot of sceners don't have as much monetary resources as other sceners, but asking party organizers to lower the prices which might end up in a financial disaster for them isn't the right solution as well.
plek: word!
Slackparty? :)
zone: 50e for a party like bp isn't that much.
If you come from paris by car with 3 of your friend the whole party (including travel, entry and food) cost somthing like 150e max. with 1000e/month it's not that expensive. Me dit pas que tu peux pas en quelques mois mettre ca de coté, je te croirais pas.
If you come from paris by car with 3 of your friend the whole party (including travel, entry and food) cost somthing like 150e max. with 1000e/month it's not that expensive. Me dit pas que tu peux pas en quelques mois mettre ca de coté, je te croirais pas.
zone: to put it short, you're VERY misinformed.
Toilets 2.00 = whoo, you have gold toilets with this price! and why not ask a reduced price here ? hire yourself the people for cleaning toilets...
BP is in the middle of nowhere, there are no resident toilets you know. the only solutions are somewhat portable toilets which need to be RENTED. and YES they were cleaned by the organizers themselves.
Tables and chairs 3.50 + Location rental 1.00 + City fees 0.50 = have them for free! ask your local politic people like town mayor, say him his city will be published in magazines and tvs, invit him to speak in the end of the party...
i'm 95% sure that Scamp did his best considering politics and lobbying and that's why we have the partyplace on the first place. i doubt there's a chance for asking more. you're TOO optimistic and unrealistic in this case.
Party tents, stages, floor in sleeping hall 7.00 = i did not understand their usage, you have a party place, why pay for tents ? floor are unuseful, we can sleep on grass or cement, you can have old floors for free, ask your local shop for the trash...
Once again you don't know how BP looks. The tent is required for the infodesk and the beamteam, also for funneling the entrance so the organizers can monitor whoever leaves or enters the party. As for the floors, you can sleep on the floor, true, but believe me, on THAT floor, it's colder than you could ever imagine. (trust me on this one, i was there twice) also you need LOTS of wooden pallets to cover all the area (we're talking about a complete hangar here + the tent)
Swimming bath 1.00 = useful ? perhaps only the users can pay this feature ?
this could be a nice idea altho i don't see a difference in +-1EU.
Heating equipment 3.50 + Heating oil 4.00 = whooo, expensive! it is not possible to use electricty intead of oil? perhaps it can be more cheap to add this to the computer electricity
diesel heating is the ONLY way to heat up a place like that. think: the place is in the middle of NOWHERE, it's a hugeass hangar, and you want to give the electricity to hundreds of computers as well. there's simply no other way and hell i'd pay some 4-5EU more if there would be a chance for not freezing my ass off for the 3rd time :DD (sorry :)
so next time PLEASE, even if you want to be constructive, at least watch some pictures to get a slight clue, ok?
Toilets 2.00 = whoo, you have gold toilets with this price! and why not ask a reduced price here ? hire yourself the people for cleaning toilets...
BP is in the middle of nowhere, there are no resident toilets you know. the only solutions are somewhat portable toilets which need to be RENTED. and YES they were cleaned by the organizers themselves.
Tables and chairs 3.50 + Location rental 1.00 + City fees 0.50 = have them for free! ask your local politic people like town mayor, say him his city will be published in magazines and tvs, invit him to speak in the end of the party...
i'm 95% sure that Scamp did his best considering politics and lobbying and that's why we have the partyplace on the first place. i doubt there's a chance for asking more. you're TOO optimistic and unrealistic in this case.
Party tents, stages, floor in sleeping hall 7.00 = i did not understand their usage, you have a party place, why pay for tents ? floor are unuseful, we can sleep on grass or cement, you can have old floors for free, ask your local shop for the trash...
Once again you don't know how BP looks. The tent is required for the infodesk and the beamteam, also for funneling the entrance so the organizers can monitor whoever leaves or enters the party. As for the floors, you can sleep on the floor, true, but believe me, on THAT floor, it's colder than you could ever imagine. (trust me on this one, i was there twice) also you need LOTS of wooden pallets to cover all the area (we're talking about a complete hangar here + the tent)
Swimming bath 1.00 = useful ? perhaps only the users can pay this feature ?
this could be a nice idea altho i don't see a difference in +-1EU.
Heating equipment 3.50 + Heating oil 4.00 = whooo, expensive! it is not possible to use electricty intead of oil? perhaps it can be more cheap to add this to the computer electricity
diesel heating is the ONLY way to heat up a place like that. think: the place is in the middle of NOWHERE, it's a hugeass hangar, and you want to give the electricity to hundreds of computers as well. there's simply no other way and hell i'd pay some 4-5EU more if there would be a chance for not freezing my ass off for the 3rd time :DD (sorry :)
so next time PLEASE, even if you want to be constructive, at least watch some pictures to get a slight clue, ok?
i don't really get all this party bashing for their entrance fee..
scene parties are like totally cheap in fact compared to professional events, what's expensive in demoparties is the trip there (plane/train/car, + eventually hotel room), not the entrance fee..
i personally wouldn't mind (now that i'm not student anymore of course) paying up to 100 euros to have more features at breakpoint, but still it's fair to keep the entrance fee as low as it already is.
et zone, damn, comment tu peux critiquer la bp sans jamais y avoir mis les pieds ??
scene parties are like totally cheap in fact compared to professional events, what's expensive in demoparties is the trip there (plane/train/car, + eventually hotel room), not the entrance fee..
i personally wouldn't mind (now that i'm not student anymore of course) paying up to 100 euros to have more features at breakpoint, but still it's fair to keep the entrance fee as low as it already is.
et zone, damn, comment tu peux critiquer la bp sans jamais y avoir mis les pieds ??
whooooa there florent, 100 EU may be a bit TOO much i think :)
As a sidenote - even if you (BP orgas) can find a cheaper party location for the next year it's prolly of no use to drop the entrance fee. You're now very much dependant on the sponsors and getting even with on your own would be very good for the party economy - not to mention if the surplus was even more than now, the people wouldn't surely complain about bigger compo prizes. :)
Ok, thx so far. Zone had some ideas, but as the others already said (a bit harsher than I would) they aren't realistic. A way to lower the cost enormous would be to change the location. The city of Bingen offered the "Rundsporthalle" (gym where you could shower in 2003, near the swimming hall) but my first thought was "OMG! Drunken Finns and shouting (megaphone extended) Polish dudes in the inner city for 4 days? That's asking for trouble." We will see... :)
Zone: They main use of the simming hall were the showers, the pool itself was a nice feature. In 2003 we had the showers of the gym (with caretaker at the location), this year it was the swimming hall with pool attendant. I'm not sure but I'd bet the costs were nearly equal for this two locations. And four days without showers? NO! :)
Melwyn: There are bigger compo prizes for the few winning participants on the one side and lower entrance fees for all on the other side. The problem is to find a solution which is ok for the majority. :)
Zone: They main use of the simming hall were the showers, the pool itself was a nice feature. In 2003 we had the showers of the gym (with caretaker at the location), this year it was the swimming hall with pool attendant. I'm not sure but I'd bet the costs were nearly equal for this two locations. And four days without showers? NO! :)
Melwyn: There are bigger compo prizes for the few winning participants on the one side and lower entrance fees for all on the other side. The problem is to find a solution which is ok for the majority. :)
MadenMann : i understand your point of view ;)
Flrent : je critique pas, j'essaye de donner des idées, il demande comment il peut faire pour faire baisser les prix d'entrée, alors je glisse des idées, dès fois que ca puisse servir. Mais c'est vrai que ca corresponds pas vraiment a la location choisie qui est assez inhabituelle.
Jb : yep, mais 150 euros kan tu tourne aux assedics depuis 6 mois ca le fait pas trop, surtout kan tu as 31 ans et que tu essaye de construire quelque chose avec ta femme, forcement la demoscene ca passe en dernier ;)
Flrent : je critique pas, j'essaye de donner des idées, il demande comment il peut faire pour faire baisser les prix d'entrée, alors je glisse des idées, dès fois que ca puisse servir. Mais c'est vrai que ca corresponds pas vraiment a la location choisie qui est assez inhabituelle.
Jb : yep, mais 150 euros kan tu tourne aux assedics depuis 6 mois ca le fait pas trop, surtout kan tu as 31 ans et que tu essaye de construire quelque chose avec ta femme, forcement la demoscene ca passe en dernier ;)
i'm confused a bit.
a new place would be much more convenient in ways of hygiene, general comfort (things like heating) and accessibility.
on the other hand i would sure miss the bonfire (a lot of party feeling came from that alone) and considering the former experiences, such a facility would eventually suffer damages :(
a new place would be much more convenient in ways of hygiene, general comfort (things like heating) and accessibility.
on the other hand i would sure miss the bonfire (a lot of party feeling came from that alone) and considering the former experiences, such a facility would eventually suffer damages :(
Dont worry, we can set a car on fire in the centre of Bingen, so you'll get your bonfire.. also put pantaloon there with a guitar and you have a proper party feeling! :)
*burp* i think if you kick scamp from the orga team, the entrence fee will fall down to 20 euro/person
If we kick scamp from the orga team the entrance fee will be 0 Euro/person because there won't be a breakpoint.