Free world?
category: general [glöplog]
forestcre: this vid is 100% fake and a parody. That kid is known for many weird vids here in Germany, don't worry.
chill winston
kb_ phew. Well it was an afterthought perhaps. I still stand by the rest of what I said :)
People who argue both for and against violent games are very polarised in their arguments and neither side presents anything at all convincing.
People who argue both for and against violent games are very polarised in their arguments and neither side presents anything at all convincing.
I think that kid should get an Oscar for that performance, it's bloody brilliant!! :D
forestcre: that video is said to be a fake (because of the cam i presume).
i didn't say it solves your problems, it's just a way to let the steam off, to calm down, to escape reality for a while - which could be a good thing as long as it's not getting too repetitive and permanent. This is the same salutary mechanism that makes demoparties so good, as i already said on pouet they can be considered as some Temporary Autonomous Zones split from the harsh real world, some kind of enchanted parentheses. And we are talking about video games which are the main entertaining media of current 'young' people, but before there were role-playing games, and movies, and theatre, and novels! they all proceed from the very same cathartic mechanism : few are made to give pleasure or awareness through culture or art, most are there to sell people feelings and lives they shouldn't or couldn't have in their real lives ; even 'successful' people with love, family, money, fame, achievement, whatever value you cherish... can live only one life, maybe two but that's it :p whereas the human mind is far more vivid and avid! so it's not really a new phenomenon, that's in fact a human ability, or curse if you prefer, the power of imagination! and that's what makes us more than a simple animal.
there is no opposition, the first line is just the analysis of the second line :p
but being aware of how we work is a big step ahead, in order to remain masters of our own thinking, acts and destiny, instead of turning into marketroism puppets. i really think that media analysis should be tought in schools. And by the way i'm not a Freud zealot at all, i don't really know his theories, and i don't really agree with the part i know.
our opinions aren't that far but that's the point where we diverge : i do think that fantasy works are good escape loopholes for animal instincts. Of course sports and music are other good ways for children and older people, but they aren't better if they are exclusive, because video games and movies usually teach things from daily life philosophy to other people's behaviors, from general culture points to technical/scientific stuff etc...
one point i fully agree is about education. It's all about education. You can't overprotect a child and then let him/her be overwhelmed by outside world. You can't let a child watch such movies or play such games without any explanation, but you can't totally hide violence or sex from him/her, that wouldn't be a gift for his/her future. He should learn how to know then control his/her primary instincts, that a kick and a boob are natural, that a human is made of nature and culture, and his/her mental balance in this overmediatized world lies on the balance between those two, between satisfying nature and thinking.
anyway, g0d bless Carmack and DooM :p
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using ever more realistic fantasy violence is like getting drunk on whiskey every time you have a real world problem - it doesn't solve your problems, just shunts you into another realm and marks another wasted day.
i didn't say it solves your problems, it's just a way to let the steam off, to calm down, to escape reality for a while - which could be a good thing as long as it's not getting too repetitive and permanent. This is the same salutary mechanism that makes demoparties so good, as i already said on pouet they can be considered as some Temporary Autonomous Zones split from the harsh real world, some kind of enchanted parentheses. And we are talking about video games which are the main entertaining media of current 'young' people, but before there were role-playing games, and movies, and theatre, and novels! they all proceed from the very same cathartic mechanism : few are made to give pleasure or awareness through culture or art, most are there to sell people feelings and lives they shouldn't or couldn't have in their real lives ; even 'successful' people with love, family, money, fame, achievement, whatever value you cherish... can live only one life, maybe two but that's it :p whereas the human mind is far more vivid and avid! so it's not really a new phenomenon, that's in fact a human ability, or curse if you prefer, the power of imagination! and that's what makes us more than a simple animal.
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And finally - do you seriously reckon that this cathartic-defense is anything other than a contrived pseudo-scientific excuse constructed post facto to attempt to explain the appeal? What do people really think? -
#1 "I crave cathartic release of the day's frustrations. Else I may end up mistreating my wife and children!" ?
as opposed to
#2 "I want to kill people. I wonder if the developers included the ability to shove dynamite down peoples' throats!" ?
there is no opposition, the first line is just the analysis of the second line :p
but being aware of how we work is a big step ahead, in order to remain masters of our own thinking, acts and destiny, instead of turning into marketroism puppets. i really think that media analysis should be tought in schools. And by the way i'm not a Freud zealot at all, i don't really know his theories, and i don't really agree with the part i know.
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Man, I'd totally accept that but no... everybody is up on their high horse because they read about Freud on a forum somewhere. 'Yeah - developers of violent games are saving society man!' I can't fathom the fumbling logic that comes to that sort of conclusion.
our opinions aren't that far but that's the point where we diverge : i do think that fantasy works are good escape loopholes for animal instincts. Of course sports and music are other good ways for children and older people, but they aren't better if they are exclusive, because video games and movies usually teach things from daily life philosophy to other people's behaviors, from general culture points to technical/scientific stuff etc...
one point i fully agree is about education. It's all about education. You can't overprotect a child and then let him/her be overwhelmed by outside world. You can't let a child watch such movies or play such games without any explanation, but you can't totally hide violence or sex from him/her, that wouldn't be a gift for his/her future. He should learn how to know then control his/her primary instincts, that a kick and a boob are natural, that a human is made of nature and culture, and his/her mental balance in this overmediatized world lies on the balance between those two, between satisfying nature and thinking.
anyway, g0d bless Carmack and DooM :p
trace: this gameplay already exist against pigeons or chicken... though these games usually are cartoonish so less shocking (prolly because they are budget ;)
btw forestcre what do you think about all those japanese animes and bishoujo games that feature the raping of very young lolitas ? those are shocking, but are there more rape crimes in Japan, i don't think so, it's 'just' a weird way for japanese people to surpass their cultural shyness, to live their wild fantasies. (and of course it's a matter of selling like most media products.)
and speaking about violent games coming from the USA, i'd like them to feature less blood but more sex! and the USA don't keep any monopole any longer as there are more and more mature games coming from eastern Europa and Russia :)
and speaking about violent games coming from the USA, i'd like them to feature less blood but more sex! and the USA don't keep any monopole any longer as there are more and more mature games coming from eastern Europa and Russia :)
Zest you've made some good points and perhaps I was a little hasty and over-zealous in my first response.
Ok, so granted - the appeal of fantasy and horror is a universal one. It extends throughout our film and literature and back in time into more fundamental human behaviours. I won't make the lame point that "games are interactive whereas other media are not". We see ritualised presentations and understandings of dismemberment and death in a number of world cultures with active shamans - and these 'stories' involve the whole community in a vivid and actual play of fantasy sickness, torture, death and rebirth. How fantasy it is is also debateable, seeing as these ritualised ordeals are believed by those involved to actually occur, whether in the world of the spirits or within the shaman's mysterious tent. I know I was brought up by Czech parents, with a rich background of fairytales full of beheadings, dragons and suchlike.
However, your point about bishoujo, loli, ecchi, guro & co. just underlines a new point - look at the lifestyles of a lot of those people! Look at 4chan, look at conversations that some gamer kids have! When I say that these people sound a little trapped, I am saying it as any old philanthropic but unreligious average student. I used to hang out with those guys, the loli sort and they were lame, uncreative and *above all* frustrated! They were looking for something and fantasy just soothed the pain every night and removed their motivation to actually do anything about their lives. Jeez I know what it's like to live in a fantasy world, and I still do, lest anybody takes me to be unimaginative.
There's a difference between a transient tribal ritual, or some sort of occasional letting off of steam and a lifestyle that is self reinforcing and centered around its own defensive/responsive behaviours. We're talking about the difference between a beer with your friends and alcoholism. We're talking about the difference between punching your friend in the face out of frustration and concern, and punching people on the street out of habit.
So when blood-letting becomes its own justification, its own reason for existing, can't you see why some people would be unhappy about that?
Ok, so granted - the appeal of fantasy and horror is a universal one. It extends throughout our film and literature and back in time into more fundamental human behaviours. I won't make the lame point that "games are interactive whereas other media are not". We see ritualised presentations and understandings of dismemberment and death in a number of world cultures with active shamans - and these 'stories' involve the whole community in a vivid and actual play of fantasy sickness, torture, death and rebirth. How fantasy it is is also debateable, seeing as these ritualised ordeals are believed by those involved to actually occur, whether in the world of the spirits or within the shaman's mysterious tent. I know I was brought up by Czech parents, with a rich background of fairytales full of beheadings, dragons and suchlike.
However, your point about bishoujo, loli, ecchi, guro & co. just underlines a new point - look at the lifestyles of a lot of those people! Look at 4chan, look at conversations that some gamer kids have! When I say that these people sound a little trapped, I am saying it as any old philanthropic but unreligious average student. I used to hang out with those guys, the loli sort and they were lame, uncreative and *above all* frustrated! They were looking for something and fantasy just soothed the pain every night and removed their motivation to actually do anything about their lives. Jeez I know what it's like to live in a fantasy world, and I still do, lest anybody takes me to be unimaginative.
There's a difference between a transient tribal ritual, or some sort of occasional letting off of steam and a lifestyle that is self reinforcing and centered around its own defensive/responsive behaviours. We're talking about the difference between a beer with your friends and alcoholism. We're talking about the difference between punching your friend in the face out of frustration and concern, and punching people on the street out of habit.
So when blood-letting becomes its own justification, its own reason for existing, can't you see why some people would be unhappy about that?
it's a geek's life! :D
yup addiction is the main concern, and i've treated mine by making my drug my job (teh intarweb!), it has been working so-so so far :>
yup addiction is the main concern, and i've treated mine by making my drug my job (teh intarweb!), it has been working so-so so far :>
i'm with navis.
Gargaj: that's because you've just become a daddy ;p
The first Manhunt wasn't so sick, it was just brutal. Suffering was more schizzy, IMHO. I remember Thrill Kill for PsOne banned - when I checked it for myself, I don't lnow what is so controversial in it...
yeah whats controversial about a leather gimp midget on stilts?
Everybody should buy a Wii and play Mario Party instead :)
keep on rocking in the free world
Forgot the picture
keops: id rather be found dead in a dumpster wearing fishnets than touching the wii :D
i was thinking.. how the christian cummunity here is gonna receive OVERLORD for 360 ... im having a blast killing sheep , poor halflings and being EVIL!
i was thinking.. how the christian cummunity here is gonna receive OVERLORD for 360 ... im having a blast killing sheep , poor halflings and being EVIL!
And now dutch politicians also want to ban that game... I bet they hadn't even heard about it until the UK banned it.
Banning games enhances piracy. Simple.
@alien - I know more controversial things. Like Blood, which was'nt banned.
@alien - I know more controversial things. Like Blood, which was'nt banned.
That female mushroom is so cute :P
Uhm.. I'm no expert, but isn't she grabbing the male mushroom's genitals there?
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forestcre: this vid is 100% fake and a parody. That kid is known for many weird vids here in Germany, don't worry.
Can't help it back I keep coming back to this: linkz0r :D
hmm, damn it, back = but of course :D
daaamn, no matter that i know it isn't real now, it's still scaring the fuck out of me!!
Totally fake. The techno music was added later using a computer.