microsoft Imagine Cup 2004 anybody?
category: general [glöplog]
lalalalala
who remembers os2/warp?
who remembers os2/warp?
optimus: I tell you what linux helps you with: You have counted your oneliners. You would have easily done this with wget under linux. I mean that would have been not more than 30 minutes of work.. :-)
Okkie: ah yes.. anyone with different OS-experience..? Would be interesting.
os2/warp sucked ass as far as i can recollect, i do remember some german 'os' that a friend of me had on his 286, something called 'geos' (geoworks?) some very crappy shell for dos.
From personal experience, I can say that before the launch of windows 95, OS/2 ran Windows 3.x applications better than windows itself.It also ran DOS applications (like games) better than anything else. I rememer running Descent windowed on a 486 (it was slow of course, but it ran). In terms of stability, OS/2 v.3 was as stable as windows NT (if not more) and it was a worthy server platform.
Of course, windows 95 and future versions were prettier (although not much), more user friendly (that's debatable of course), they had a ton of applications you could run, and supported an extremely larger variety of crappy PC hardware. IBM did nothing to change that and so OS/2 died a shameful death soon afterwards. Too bad, since technically it was years ahead of its competition.
Of course, windows 95 and future versions were prettier (although not much), more user friendly (that's debatable of course), they had a ton of applications you could run, and supported an extremely larger variety of crappy PC hardware. IBM did nothing to change that and so OS/2 died a shameful death soon afterwards. Too bad, since technically it was years ahead of its competition.
blala: Let's breakdown your post:
Maybe I should have said like microsoft products
I would not feel proud about that if I were you. And the fact that ms is trying to make software piracy more difficult (with product activation for example) should alarm you for the things to come in the future.
I can't argue personnal opinion. You are free to choose.
No its not. You just don't know how to use it and you don't care to find out. But that is too personal opinion. In my personal opinion, I could make hundreds of arguments as to why microsoft products are crap.
When you see someone who insists using thing A and having constant trouble with it, and you know that with B and little effort, most trouble would be gone, you tend to express that feeling. But as you say, maybe linux people should leave windows people with their troubles and not try to help them out. Which I can't understand, of course, but I am willing to respect anyway.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I can't argue with you on that matter, people tend to have very strange tastes nowdays. I do however personally disagree.
The earth is round (elliptical to be exact) and that's a fact. There is no 'fact' in aesthetics, however, just opinions.
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we _dont_ like microsoft
Maybe I should have said like microsoft products
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and we _dont_ pay shit to them
I would not feel proud about that if I were you. And the fact that ms is trying to make software piracy more difficult (with product activation for example) should alarm you for the things to come in the future.
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BUT we _do_ hate linux
I can't argue personnal opinion. You are free to choose.
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because linux is simply crap
No its not. You just don't know how to use it and you don't care to find out. But that is too personal opinion. In my personal opinion, I could make hundreds of arguments as to why microsoft products are crap.
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and linux people are fuckin' arrogant.
When you see someone who insists using thing A and having constant trouble with it, and you know that with B and little effort, most trouble would be gone, you tend to express that feeling. But as you say, maybe linux people should leave windows people with their troubles and not try to help them out. Which I can't understand, of course, but I am willing to respect anyway.
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windows is a much more beautiful and attractive piece of shit than linux is
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I can't argue with you on that matter, people tend to have very strange tastes nowdays. I do however personally disagree.
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that's the fact
The earth is round (elliptical to be exact) and that's a fact. There is no 'fact' in aesthetics, however, just opinions.
the only fact that matters is that moT is a moron
I am sorry kusma for waisting your time. And my own, as it seems.
phred, there is a windows version of wget aswell.
maybe i should explain my sentence "...and linux people are fuckin' arrogant." (i don't think the others need to be explained).
since i was really an anti-windows guy (and still is a bit anti-microsoft), and people around made this big fuss about linux, once (around 1997 or so, i don't really remember) i decided to try linux. i got some distribution, i don't remember which one, and i tried to install it. it asked only one yes/no question before hanging (half an hour later) - i tried both answers, several times, and every other possible changes (before starting the install, since after i had no choices) but it hanged always [much later i realized that i had some noname and nonsupported scsi card, and very probably that caused the phenomenon]. Then i asked some hardline linux people at the school (for me they seemed "gurus", since i didn't know shit about linux) and i get two different answers:
1) rtfm
2) recompile the kernel
i tried to explain them that i can't read the manual or recompile the kernel since it's the _installer_ which hanged, but somehow they didn't listened...
and this is the general attitude i receive from linux people. i think it's not my fault, sorry
then at the university of course i learned basic unix, and used freebsd at home for a while, and i still have freebsd installed somewhere here. at first i liked it much, but soon i realized that it has its errors, it's not good for desktop usage, and i don't like the general unix philosophy at all. it's simply outdated. (it's a philosophy born in the 70s. it was probably ok then)
and, linux is at least as much a patchwork, a very big hack, an example how not to program as older (and very possibly newer too, i don't know) microsoft products - the difference is just that everybody can check the later by looking at the source; and of course 99.99% of the linux people don't understand what happens inside, so please stop telling about that.
ok i'll stop here, this post is already way too long. optimus-syndrome spreading :)
since i was really an anti-windows guy (and still is a bit anti-microsoft), and people around made this big fuss about linux, once (around 1997 or so, i don't really remember) i decided to try linux. i got some distribution, i don't remember which one, and i tried to install it. it asked only one yes/no question before hanging (half an hour later) - i tried both answers, several times, and every other possible changes (before starting the install, since after i had no choices) but it hanged always [much later i realized that i had some noname and nonsupported scsi card, and very probably that caused the phenomenon]. Then i asked some hardline linux people at the school (for me they seemed "gurus", since i didn't know shit about linux) and i get two different answers:
1) rtfm
2) recompile the kernel
i tried to explain them that i can't read the manual or recompile the kernel since it's the _installer_ which hanged, but somehow they didn't listened...
and this is the general attitude i receive from linux people. i think it's not my fault, sorry
then at the university of course i learned basic unix, and used freebsd at home for a while, and i still have freebsd installed somewhere here. at first i liked it much, but soon i realized that it has its errors, it's not good for desktop usage, and i don't like the general unix philosophy at all. it's simply outdated. (it's a philosophy born in the 70s. it was probably ok then)
and, linux is at least as much a patchwork, a very big hack, an example how not to program as older (and very possibly newer too, i don't know) microsoft products - the difference is just that everybody can check the later by looking at the source; and of course 99.99% of the linux people don't understand what happens inside, so please stop telling about that.
ok i'll stop here, this post is already way too long. optimus-syndrome spreading :)
I had in fact tiried OS/2 WARP 3 when it was just out. The cool one with WIndows emulation. It installed from 40 floppies or so. I backed up some vitals of my back then huge 600 MB harddisk on about 100-150 floppies.
In fact, OS/2 Warp, though not very practical for a lack of drivers and so on, and somewhat slow (though faster than Windows NT) was very, very cleanly designed (better than Windows NT and 95) and was a pleasure to hack on. Not that it keeped me busy for long though...
OS/2 still lives on, now as eComStation OS starting from about 400 Eur.
Blala: i have to agree with you. However, based upon any Unix or just about any other kernel, a good OS can be born. Examples are QNX (realtime developer), MacOS X and BeOS (currently Zeta). In fact, zeta is very Unix-like near its core and file structure etc., but it is thin&sleak, has C++ APIs and gets rid of 30 Years of collecting patches on Unix. I believe there are also reimplementations of BeOS based on Lunix and FreeBSD, and i would expect one on ReactOS. Now that would be cool.
Blala, i would believe the people you talked to are also not very good at understanding stuff, else they would go out and try to help you. Or they want to be leet and everyone else is a fool. Given this attitude is comon not only in Linux, but also in FreeBSD community, it seems that getting books and reading them is almost the only way.
I wonder how much one could strip off Linux to still have a working desktop system? How much would have to be rewritten using something not being thrown out? ...
In fact, OS/2 Warp, though not very practical for a lack of drivers and so on, and somewhat slow (though faster than Windows NT) was very, very cleanly designed (better than Windows NT and 95) and was a pleasure to hack on. Not that it keeped me busy for long though...
OS/2 still lives on, now as eComStation OS starting from about 400 Eur.
Blala: i have to agree with you. However, based upon any Unix or just about any other kernel, a good OS can be born. Examples are QNX (realtime developer), MacOS X and BeOS (currently Zeta). In fact, zeta is very Unix-like near its core and file structure etc., but it is thin&sleak, has C++ APIs and gets rid of 30 Years of collecting patches on Unix. I believe there are also reimplementations of BeOS based on Lunix and FreeBSD, and i would expect one on ReactOS. Now that would be cool.
Blala, i would believe the people you talked to are also not very good at understanding stuff, else they would go out and try to help you. Or they want to be leet and everyone else is a fool. Given this attitude is comon not only in Linux, but also in FreeBSD community, it seems that getting books and reading them is almost the only way.
I wonder how much one could strip off Linux to still have a working desktop system? How much would have to be rewritten using something not being thrown out? ...
Depends on your definition of a working desktop system and how pissed you'll get when some vital bit of your setup isn't supported.
You'd get very far, but not without ticking off somebody.
You'd get very far, but not without ticking off somebody.
the argument about hardcore linux-people beeing all like "rtfm n00b" is validated by me, they can be such pompus snobs.
btw; wget for win32, winscp - works like a charm. :)
btw; wget for win32, winscp - works like a charm. :)
blala: what is the unix philosophy?
Why is it outdated? What is newer than that?
Why is it outdated? What is newer than that?
ok, wget and winscp.. these all work.. sure. But in linux I have the possibilty to combine all those tools..
blala: I tried Linux too in 1997 I think. I believe it was the moment when DOS was running out and the scene decided to go to windows or linux. I tried SuSe back then and it didn't run. The LILO didn't get up (I think I got LI and waited for the LO or something like that), I gave it up and switched to Windows.
Back then there was Windows98, it wasn't that good either but it evolved to a really better OS, and so did Linux, so give it a try, Suse 9.0 or so is REALLY better.. never had any problems installing that.. even on my old hardware..
Back then there was Windows98, it wasn't that good either but it evolved to a really better OS, and so did Linux, so give it a try, Suse 9.0 or so is REALLY better.. never had any problems installing that.. even on my old hardware..
Yeah, and you can also try out Lesbian Linux . It's completely free, literaly gay and very happy :-)
every gay is OK :)
