pouët.net

Go to bottom

How to deal with plagiarism in the scene?

category: general [glöplog]
added on the 2010-06-11 12:25:48 by Defiance Defiance
smash has leading
added on the 2010-06-11 12:29:49 by nosfe nosfe
added on the 2010-06-11 12:58:38 by bdk bdk
I shall cite "I dream of Jeanie" and "Olivia Newton John" on my next productions for instant thumb downiness.

No, wait "My parents".

(ps yes Iks there will be another one, one day).

added on the 2010-06-11 13:01:28 by auld auld
Of course Mr Foxy "O" had to add here his '3 cents', not only in nonsensically rude way, but of course he shined us with totally pointless statement, not bringing _anything_ to the discussion, but still proving that Mr Foxy "O" remains an infantile idiot, which is the only constant rule of the universe.
Thank you for reminding it.
added on the 2010-06-11 13:26:38 by abscess abscess
smash: you're slightly contradicting yourself in your own words mate. if you dont care about winning and want people to respect your creativity, then show them where it came from, they'll be able to recognize if it was truly creative or not, and regardless of how skewed the inspiration sources might be from the final result people will still keep in mind that it's not what you use that matters, it's what you do with it that counts. and it'll also ammount to personal subjective taste, same way a dj spinning lots of commercial hits might appeal to some, and a dj with insane scratch skills messing with just 3 records and an mc will appeal alot more to others. if you go the extra mile over the top, people notice. if you just take a one trick poney and have it do a backflip, people notice. and then personal taste comes to play.

that being said: i agree with 4mat that the inspirations should be listed after the demo was shown, not before.

navis: if you sample enough for over 15 years you earn the right to not credit your sources anymore? then timbaland was right all along. kernel error 24:3
added on the 2010-06-11 13:38:52 by psenough psenough
20 years after Vanilla Ice, everyone is doing it, and now it`s socially accepted being a ripper. Oh how times changes.
added on the 2010-06-11 13:50:25 by Zplex Zplex
imo the scene has never had so much great stuff .. i don't see the plagiarism that's apparently so rampant.

sceners are clever enough - as a group - to tell what's plagiarism and what isn't .. if somebody is blatantly stealing stuff, it'll become known very quickly, and that'll effectively cancel out the reason for doing it in the first place.

imho.
added on the 2010-06-11 14:06:48 by farfar farfar
ps: yeah i meant "they can do that, assuming they credit blatand copy/paste somehow (and *if* it is legal too)". As opposed to "the scene will not tolerate (thumb downs etc.) *even* if there is a disclaimer".

i hope it makes some sense.
added on the 2010-06-11 14:30:36 by Navis Navis
Quote:
Of course Mr Foxy "O" had to add here his '3 cents'


Who the hell is this 'Mr Foxy "O"' you keep bringing up out of nowhere? I saw this in other threads as well.
added on the 2010-06-11 14:33:07 by okkie okkie
ps:
Quote:
people will still keep in mind that it's not what you use that matters, it's what you do with it that counts

and thats my point - im not sure that is currently the case (for many pouteers, that is)
added on the 2010-06-11 15:10:57 by smash smash
Quote:
Who the hell is this 'Mr Foxy "O"' you keep bringing up out of nowhere? I saw this in other threads as well.


it's me, the guy does certainly have some real issues. we had once a clash, since then he is after me for a revenge :)
added on the 2010-06-11 15:12:10 by Oswald Oswald
"sceners are clever enough - as a group - to tell what's plagiarism and what isn't .. if somebody is blatantly stealing stuff, it'll become known very quickly, and that'll effectively cancel out the reason for doing it in the first place."

word. who needs kindergarden anti plagiarism rules.
added on the 2010-06-11 15:15:23 by Oswald Oswald
Smash:

The way I see it, people are not objecting to the principle of using outside sources. I think the witch-hunt mentality is more driven by the way that these things are uncovered by outsiders in a big WTF smoking gun revelation, with the implication that you were actively trying to pass the work off as your own. And surely it's in your interest to cut that sort of thing off at the source…?

I can see why you'd be reluctant to adopt this in the current atmosphere though: I'm basically asking you to trust the demo-watching/voting masses to act rationally when presented with an up-front list of sources, and that's never a good thing to rely on. :-) So, yeah, it's a bit of a chicken-egg problem, and I'm not sure how to deal with that. Perhaps keeping the list of sources relatively 'low-profile' (i.e. sticking it in an .nfo, not splashing it over a compo beam slide) is the way to go - the point is more that the list should *exist* and be available to consult before the cries of plagiarism start. On the other hand, ideally that information should be available to voters while voting is still open… so, hmm.
added on the 2010-06-11 15:32:54 by gasman gasman
Without getting into a huge debate about it, I didn't discover this myself, but I was (as Gasman correctly points out, even though I don't think he knew) tipped off my a demoscene follower who indeed went "WTF - have you seend this?" to me.

In this exact case, I simply feel sad because even though others keep writing in the prod-thread that "the bit with the faces was weak and it doesn't matter", the whole intro-sequence including the changing faces and the direction with the music and sounds was what MADE "Ocean Machine" for me when I first saw it. Boom - instant love for the prod. Now, I just feel cheated, because in the way it was so blatantly ripped off.

Also, it's pathetic to see some of the same people who went "FUCK TIMBALAND!" a few years back go all YouTube-idiocy in this case (literally: "TBL made it better!"). Hypocrisy - look it up.
added on the 2010-06-11 15:48:52 by gloom gloom
Ah, gloom beat me to the punch (in a non-homosexual way). If people seriously say this is a good thing, then all the Timbaland-hate needs to go away right now.
added on the 2010-06-11 15:59:56 by sagacity sagacity
During the Timbaland controversy the issue of ripping came up as well and it was done away with "Using something for non-profit is less worse than for profit" which makes sense.

The whole copyright discussion went nuts after the Timbo case and people act kneejerk to ANYTHING (Not just demoscene, some people on other sites started attacking artists for sampling even if they credited)
added on the 2010-06-11 17:34:35 by okkie okkie
I'm sorry, but why are you just quoting people without proper attribution?
Plagiarism! PLAGIARISM!

And you would've gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those pesky kids.
added on the 2010-06-11 18:40:53 by sagacity sagacity
also, here is a picture of a kitten:
[img]http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1790/maaliisjarig.gif¨-img*
added on the 2010-06-11 19:00:42 by havoc havoc
FAIL
BB Image
added on the 2010-06-11 19:01:22 by havoc havoc
BB Image
added on the 2010-06-11 19:01:36 by button button
I think stating sources of "inspiration" goes a little far down the road as inspiration can mean anything from "that prod made me think of summer, so i want to do a summer-themed one now" to "i so have to use that spiked ball in my own prod! (most likely you dont, tho ;)"

If one uses the work of another one as a basis for his own or tries to replicate it, and even if its just one scene out of many, its a remix (actually is it still called a remix if its not just music?) and i think thats where credits are due. if credits are given i dont think the prod itself should be downvoted for being unoriginal (unless of course it doesnt add anything new/exciting at all... then its a plain ripoff).

you are all "standing on the shoulders of giants" and do not reinvent the wheel (well mostly). some prods are more original than others o/c but those are the prods who get better votes after all.

my 3 cents, you may now start to flame =)
added on the 2010-06-11 19:28:50 by wysiwtf wysiwtf
Well this is a very interesting debate.
I assume the TBL guys worked and maybe still work in the advertisement field, where this sort of thing is common place.
We call it 'reference", and usually it's down right copy and plagiarism.
Pisses me off a lot, but it's how it works.
Most of the stuff you see out there as advertising is ripped off from somewhere, specially nowadays with internet, they copy millions of things off YouTube and the like. it's scary.
added on the 2010-06-11 19:38:05 by Akira^G*P Akira^G*P
BB Image
added on the 2010-06-11 21:23:13 by 4mat 4mat
Quote:
I assume the TBL guys worked and maybe still work in the advertisement field, where this sort of thing is common place.

lawl. play some more battlefield, darling ;P
added on the 2010-06-11 21:29:16 by Maali Maali

login

Go to top