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does ZX Spectrum platform needs to be subdivided?

category: general [glöplog]
this discussion is so very interesting. i want this to continue for a very long time. the longer it goes on, the less i want to know about spectrum. so i am saving money. thank you.
added on the 2014-07-25 23:39:14 by yzi yzi
Nobody hates overkill expansions for retro platforms... until the first demo (ab)uses them and plays .wav and loads huge animations from fast media. ;)

Anyway. Obviously something that doesn't run on "ZX Spectrum" but runs on "ZX Spectrum with 2014 hardware sticking out the sides" isn't the same platform.

On Amiga, we've lived for a long time with the lumping together of ECS+accelerator demos being classed as "OCS/ECS" when it doesn't run on OCS, and AGA+060 being classed as "AGA" when clearly that's not the minimum spec for the demo, AGA+060+64MB RAM is.

The ideal would be to classify each demo by the minimum specs required to run the demo. There would be a lot of permutations, and for each platform. Instead, you could require it as a separate info field on upload. (To avoid people voting from a Youtube capture and not reading the .nfo, which should also contain it.)

I would say that in order for the demoscene to be about appreciating "what you can achieve on computer x" it is relevant to care. Especially for retro platforms where specifications can be increased a hundredfold with an expansion.

I would say ZX Spectrum implies a Sinclair machine or compatible clone without expansions, and that demos made for these machines but requiring expansions to play should be classified as "Expanded ZX Spectrum", and the required info field would inform those who want to watch it on real hardware what they need to run it.

The minimum spec info field is just a suggestion from discussing these matters for Kestra/BitWorld/Janeway database 2.0.

Maybe I should be cynical from all the PC releases that don't even support ATi card or require 64-bit even if they don't use >4GB RAM, but I think it could be helpful for those who care if the demo actually runs on anything but the coder's computer.
added on the 2014-07-25 23:48:05 by Photon Photon
so where is the International Prototype ZX Spectrum system located?

but talking about ATI crap, the problem is entirely with the idiots who buy that crap. dont. just dont. there is a fully working alternative
added on the 2014-07-26 00:33:22 by yzi yzi
all this is making me scared of releasing any new demo for spectrum. maybe one day, but surely not in near future.
added on the 2014-07-26 00:40:13 by evills evills
Quote:
Obviously something that doesn't run on "ZX Spectrum" but runs on "ZX Spectrum with 2014 hardware sticking out the sides" isn't the same platform.


It is the same platform -- that demo would just have special requirements.

If you still disagree, then enjoy reclassifying the entire PC spectra, then. "PC", "PC with GUS", "PC with SB", "PC with GUS with EMS", etc.
added on the 2014-07-26 01:23:02 by trixter trixter
the scene is about people and culture, so platform definitions can be disagreed on just like anything else. if it used to be a common thing in the zx spectrum scene that occasionally you needed 2014 hardware, then ok

in other words, you need to know the people and the culture to be able to categorize
i don't, so all i know is, i'd like this thread to stop existing
added on the 2014-07-26 07:52:40 by yzi yzi
One must be a fool to use PC or Amiga analogy with ZX Spectrum. PC = open hardware platform, designed to be expanded and replacable, everything was modular. Amiga was designed to be expandable too, especially models like 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000. They were designed to have not only peripherals but also to replace the CPU, expand RAM, add a graphics card or whatever you can imagine. ZX Spectrum was a microcomputer designed to be just that. You could connect peripherals like printers or disk drives, but replacing a CPU, RAM, or expanding graphics possibilities needed hardware hacks. Therefore ZX Spectrum is a clearly defined platform and saying otherwise is a manipulation.

And anyway, I, and probably many, if not most of the other people don't care about childish platform wars or other dramas for people who have no lifes - we just want to have a clearly indexed library of demos - when I look for a ZX Spectrum demo on Pouet I expect to launch it on ZX Spectrum. Something that is increasingly not so obvious.
added on the 2014-07-26 20:51:53 by rutra80 rutra80
Maybe the question should be, "can the current platform categorization system be used to solve such and such need". And then list your needs.
added on the 2014-07-26 21:31:11 by yzi yzi
do we need a catagory for zx spectrum raving tomato demos?
Yes, we do, but only for those raving tomato demos that rave using various illegal modern FPGA-based raving contraptions.
added on the 2014-07-27 12:24:34 by introspec introspec
Suddenly tomato!
BB Image
added on the 2014-07-27 12:58:14 by g0blinish g0blinish
Quote:
if it used to be a common thing in the zx spectrum scene that occasionally you needed 2014 hardware, then ok

1. who will decide what is a common thing on the zx scene?
2. what if somebody will make an accelerator with core i7 and will make dozen of demos for it - will they be still demos for spectrum?
Quote:
i'd like this thread to stop existing
why? don't like it - do not read. it's simple. we would like to solve this problem and have proper categories.
added on the 2014-07-28 00:23:18 by psb psb
One must be an idiot to not to get ZX Spectrum and PC analogy. PC, a computer older 1 year than ZX Spectrum (first come from 1981), and read something on internet about modular construction of zx spectrum (with actual modules, not cards). it wouln't probably hurt if you knew what is serial and linear connection of devices.
zx spectrum isn't anything like amiga, it's a pc-like computer. a basic knowledge of computer construction could tell you it.
but this small amount of knowledge could cause your brain explode, probably.
added on the 2014-07-28 14:31:05 by johny johny
Well, johny's manner of arguing pisses me off, but he has a point. The problem is not Pouet categories. The problem is more to do with the fact that some ZX Spectrum parties allow mixing of demos made using, essentially, 1985 hardware and demos made using much more modern hardware. The attempt to introduce Pouet categories is perhaps a roundabout way of enforcing the distinction by those who are unhappy about it.
added on the 2014-07-28 15:07:46 by introspec introspec
Quote:
1. who will decide what is a common thing on the zx scene?

Statistics?
Quote:
Statistics?

Alone :P
added on the 2014-07-28 18:43:44 by g0blinish g0blinish
Quote:
1. who will decide what is a common thing on the zx scene?


glad you've asked, as most of the zx scenners (active and passive) more or less agreed on how zx category needs to be separated (see few pages before), even provided a icons for a poeut, but pouet-gods keeps ignoring that, and people that don't know or care about zx spectrum just keep spamming this thread.
added on the 2014-07-28 19:03:32 by bonefish bonefish
Quote:
Statistics?
oh lol... we have one "statistics guy" - he is starting most of the scene wars on the platform. he always used statistics for "proofs" but it's really useless. I even don't askl how we'll get this statistics (that guy really got one a year ago - we see the results right here!). statistics is a good tool but not in a bad hands.

Quote:
even provided a icons for a poeut
yeeah! icons already become one of the "proofs"!

- why prods for profi will go to extended category and atm's not?
- because we already have an icon for atm! (c) alone.
added on the 2014-07-29 00:06:26 by psb psb
Quote:
statistics is a good tool but not in a bad hands.

"the only statistics you can trust are those you falsified yourself" ;)
Uh, guys?
Quote:
by Gargaj:I recently came up with an idea on how to solve the "compatibility / system requirements / etc" issue; I'm gonna run it through a few people (e.g. as soon as Gasman starts answering his email :) and see where it goes.


Apparently it's more "fun" to waste time here pointlessly than to sit and wait patiently.
Fake "Spectrum" FPGA prods are still in Spectrum category. And any guy can come with next random FPGA hardware and post his stuff in any retro machine category.

This V6Z80P prod was posted in "Wild" and that's fair.
ATM prods are all fake "Spectrum', so why don't you clamour to move them out of ZX?
added on the 2014-08-05 23:56:18 by TS-Labs TS-Labs
ATM Turbo was Spectrum all the 90s and 2000s (read the zines) and still is.
Anyone moron can write in the zines.

I heard about ATM ~1996.
added on the 2014-08-06 08:25:44 by g0blinish g0blinish

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