Amiga 2000 demos?
category: general [glöplog]
Going home for the holidays, I'll have access to my Uncle's old NTSC Amiga 2000 that's basically sat unused for the last 10 years...
Assuming I can figure out how to get them onto disks the Amiga can read, what demos should I try running on it?
Thus far my list is just Hardwired and Desert Dream.
Assuming I can figure out how to get them onto disks the Amiga can read, what demos should I try running on it?
Thus far my list is just Hardwired and Desert Dream.
state of the art
arte
9 fingers
enigma
rsi megademo
world of commodore
mental hangover
interference
sequential
extension
d.o.s
roots 2.0
technological death
3d-demo 2
budbrain megademo
arte
9 fingers
enigma
rsi megademo
world of commodore
mental hangover
interference
sequential
extension
d.o.s
roots 2.0
technological death
3d-demo 2
budbrain megademo
voyage ofcourse..
You may want to try these ones as well:
18 years : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=26920
Human Target : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=3459
Voyage: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=3521
Rrevenge of babbnaasen : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=3024
Global Trash : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=405
Dragons Megademo : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=3841
D.A.N.E : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=2598
Total Triple Trouble : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=2720
krest mass leftovers : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=3225
That should keep you busy for quite a while ;)
18 years : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=26920
Human Target : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=3459
Voyage: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=3521
Rrevenge of babbnaasen : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=3024
Global Trash : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=405
Dragons Megademo : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=3841
D.A.N.E : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=2598
Total Triple Trouble : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=2720
krest mass leftovers : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=3225
That should keep you busy for quite a while ;)
Most of them won't work properly on a NTSC amiga.
Probably.
The important question is: does it have a fatter agnes or not? If not, and I assume this is the case because you did say NTSC, your issue is going to be that anything timed to the vblank will be off.
This mainly affects sound. Most demos run just fine, and you'll just be missing the scroller at the bottom (as the screen physically will cut it off.) We NTSC Amiga sceners dealt with this for years before the fatter agnes, but everything worked.
Thrust demos, especially Ottifanten, are a must.
Roots 2.0 will NOT work. I seem to recall no one seeing RSI Megademo until after the fatter agnes in the states, but man did we hear about it.
Budbrain 1 and 2 work just fine, though sound is correct (and not incorrect like on PAL machines, where it is too slow.)
You should definately watch Alcatraz Megademo III, because it rules, and because it works. You will miss the scroller in the castle part (I honestly didn't know it HAD one until I saw it recently) but everything else should run fine. And it has Echoing.
Coppercabana (missing a scroller), Raster Magic (missing scroller) because Crazy Typer rules, SinRot by Megaforce - hell, everything by Megaforce. And prolly everything by Quadlite (:
Also you should play Mr Munk in Fluidland. Because then you'll hear the brilliant MunkJams at the PROPER speed. NTSC. Screw that slow Pal crap.
Finally, you should get http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=8887 CheckMate by the Silents, and see the best example of how NOT to make a demo that works on NTSC machines. It is truly abysmal hearing the sound in that one (:
Oh, and Iraq demo by the Animators, though the scroll is cut off in the third part.
The Wild Copper demos.
Yes, I'm unabashedly an NTSC Amiga scener when it comes to the early stuff, because of the sound. It sounds better 25% faster (: (Ok, maybe it's because I've heard those tunes 100+ times that way (: )
Oh, and grab a diskmag from back then or so - most of them work, and you'll have a good idea what demos to watch from them.
Oh, and all the Epsilon demos work, because they were NTSC to begin with (:
This mainly affects sound. Most demos run just fine, and you'll just be missing the scroller at the bottom (as the screen physically will cut it off.) We NTSC Amiga sceners dealt with this for years before the fatter agnes, but everything worked.
Thrust demos, especially Ottifanten, are a must.
Roots 2.0 will NOT work. I seem to recall no one seeing RSI Megademo until after the fatter agnes in the states, but man did we hear about it.
Budbrain 1 and 2 work just fine, though sound is correct (and not incorrect like on PAL machines, where it is too slow.)
You should definately watch Alcatraz Megademo III, because it rules, and because it works. You will miss the scroller in the castle part (I honestly didn't know it HAD one until I saw it recently) but everything else should run fine. And it has Echoing.
Coppercabana (missing a scroller), Raster Magic (missing scroller) because Crazy Typer rules, SinRot by Megaforce - hell, everything by Megaforce. And prolly everything by Quadlite (:
Also you should play Mr Munk in Fluidland. Because then you'll hear the brilliant MunkJams at the PROPER speed. NTSC. Screw that slow Pal crap.
Finally, you should get http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=8887 CheckMate by the Silents, and see the best example of how NOT to make a demo that works on NTSC machines. It is truly abysmal hearing the sound in that one (:
Oh, and Iraq demo by the Animators, though the scroll is cut off in the third part.
The Wild Copper demos.
Yes, I'm unabashedly an NTSC Amiga scener when it comes to the early stuff, because of the sound. It sounds better 25% faster (: (Ok, maybe it's because I've heard those tunes 100+ times that way (: )
Oh, and grab a diskmag from back then or so - most of them work, and you'll have a good idea what demos to watch from them.
Oh, and all the Epsilon demos work, because they were NTSC to begin with (:
Now i remember that many razor 1911 productions have ntsc/pal switches.
I still wonder who Fat Agnes is... ;) And since when is the music in the Budbrain demos too slow on PAL machines? Anyway, a demo you should definitely try is Rampage by TEK because it simply rocks. And as Bifat's code is pretty clean it might even work on NTSC machines. There are of course many others like Deformations by Deform or Mindriot by Andromeda that you should try as well. However, Rampage is a must! :) One of the most underrated Amiga demos for me (together with Deformations).
Yes, but I don't believe those work without a fatter agnes.
Now if it DOES have a fatter agnes and you just need to force it into PAL... crap I forgot which bit to set. Well anyway you can just use BPD (boot PAL, Dammit!) ... which apparently I have the only copy of, if google is right. Which is just... wierd. There is a pal/ntsc bootblock program on aminet which should let you toggle the stuff.
Ok, writing to disks: Probably the easiest way: (Stingray will shoot me for this, but hey it's my tried/true method as it worked back in the days when trading demos.)
Fire up an emulator, and get a copy of DMS - aminet has 'em. Use DMS to make copies of the demos. For your larger demos that don't compress well, you may wish to do tracks 0-39 and 40-79 in different files. Now, copy these files onto 720 dos floppies. You can then copy those images to RAM: and write them back to floppies using the A2000 and DMS. Amiga Crossdos will be able to read the 720k dos floppies just fine - but just 720k formatted. (Which is where if you have a dms that is larger than 720k itself, you'll need to do the 'half the tracks' trick.
Oh, and don't forget to make a workbench disk that has DMS on it. It would suck to have a bunch of 720 floppages with demos but no way to get the dms files unpacked to disks.
Now if it DOES have a fatter agnes and you just need to force it into PAL... crap I forgot which bit to set. Well anyway you can just use BPD (boot PAL, Dammit!) ... which apparently I have the only copy of, if google is right. Which is just... wierd. There is a pal/ntsc bootblock program on aminet which should let you toggle the stuff.
Ok, writing to disks: Probably the easiest way: (Stingray will shoot me for this, but hey it's my tried/true method as it worked back in the days when trading demos.)
Fire up an emulator, and get a copy of DMS - aminet has 'em. Use DMS to make copies of the demos. For your larger demos that don't compress well, you may wish to do tracks 0-39 and 40-79 in different files. Now, copy these files onto 720 dos floppies. You can then copy those images to RAM: and write them back to floppies using the A2000 and DMS. Amiga Crossdos will be able to read the 720k dos floppies just fine - but just 720k formatted. (Which is where if you have a dms that is larger than 720k itself, you'll need to do the 'half the tracks' trick.
Oh, and don't forget to make a workbench disk that has DMS on it. It would suck to have a bunch of 720 floppages with demos but no way to get the dms files unpacked to disks.
Stingray: I recall Banana told me that Rampage is an 030 only demo, and Bifat told me he tried very hard to make it NOT work on emulators, so I have a feeling it probably won't work on NTSC. (I never saw it on NTSC, which is where Banana had to find Koosbanian and send it to me...)
Now, my NTSC A2000 _has_ an 030, so it may work. But I have only seen that machine for a half hour when I was visiting my friend who has it in the states... and I didn't have Rampage. I had 3d demo II tho, and it worked. But it also has a Fatter Agnes. (Yes I bought an A2000 when I was in England because it had the 030, and it is in the states still and I am not.)
And of course it's too slow on PAL machines! Every vblank timed music is too slow on PAL machines! (:
Oh I forgot, Cryptoburners' "Materialized" - though, well, I love it, but having now seen it on PAL I know there are parts that don't show in NTSC, and maybe best to skip that one. I still love it even on NTSC.
Now, my NTSC A2000 _has_ an 030, so it may work. But I have only seen that machine for a half hour when I was visiting my friend who has it in the states... and I didn't have Rampage. I had 3d demo II tho, and it worked. But it also has a Fatter Agnes. (Yes I bought an A2000 when I was in England because it had the 030, and it is in the states still and I am not.)
And of course it's too slow on PAL machines! Every vblank timed music is too slow on PAL machines! (:
Oh I forgot, Cryptoburners' "Materialized" - though, well, I love it, but having now seen it on PAL I know there are parts that don't show in NTSC, and maybe best to skip that one. I still love it even on NTSC.
Truck: bit 5 in $dff1dc toggles between pal/ntsc mode. (set: pal, cleared: ntsc). however, it won't work on a fat agnes as there's no such thing as a fat agnes, at least not in an amiga. ;D cool things are male (har har), so it's agnus :P as for the approach to write the disk images, i better stay quiet. :D one word of warning though, keep in mind that dms is NOT reliable! so you might end up with faulty disks. ;) (yes, even with verify turned on it writes crap sometimes!).
Yeah that's the one. So, if you have asm-one or the like, you can test for your fat Agn[e|u]s by flipping that bit.
(So I went and looked, and it appears that at least one issue of Compute refers to it as the fat Agnes, so I have a feeling some of us just read it in publications that had it wrong and it stuck.)
Stingray is right, it can mess up. But considering I used it to write every diskbased demo I ever downloaded (aside from some early ones which were Warped) and never had an issue - and since it compresses disks read track by track and makes portable versions of disks - well, that's still my reccomendation.
You may find another solution that works on aminet. Writing an ADF back to floppy from an Amiga using Asmone isn't difficult, but I don't know that anyone wrote that page up (:
Ok I'm supposed to be writing something else - so enough on early demos - except to say that Ottifanten, the Wild Copper demos, the Megaforce demos, the rest of the Thrust demos ... they are file demos and won't need DMS at all (: Just copy them to a dos 720k floppy.
(So I went and looked, and it appears that at least one issue of Compute refers to it as the fat Agnes, so I have a feeling some of us just read it in publications that had it wrong and it stuck.)
Stingray is right, it can mess up. But considering I used it to write every diskbased demo I ever downloaded (aside from some early ones which were Warped) and never had an issue - and since it compresses disks read track by track and makes portable versions of disks - well, that's still my reccomendation.
You may find another solution that works on aminet. Writing an ADF back to floppy from an Amiga using Asmone isn't difficult, but I don't know that anyone wrote that page up (:
Ok I'm supposed to be writing something else - so enough on early demos - except to say that Ottifanten, the Wild Copper demos, the Megaforce demos, the rest of the Thrust demos ... they are file demos and won't need DMS at all (: Just copy them to a dos 720k floppy.
Ugh. All I have are a bunch of 720k floppies, and (probably) effectively a stock Amiga 2000 with no emulator, (probably) no CrossDOS. I'll have a try with some of the file demos, but that seems to be a major snag.
the emulator would be what you'd use NOW, before you go. So that shouldn't be a problem. Emulate the Amiga and use the emulated Amiga to prepare the 720k dos floppages with archives to restore on the real Amiga later.
crossdos comes on the workbench disks if it's running 3.0 - They are probably there with the A2000. For 1.3 and a 2.0 where crossdos wasn't installed, there's messydos from Aminet, which I used just fine. It means making an entry to the mountlist but this isn't hard, it's in the docs with messydos. Your only problem here is going to be getting messydos to the amiga.
Maybe you can find out what kickstart it's running before you go?
crossdos comes on the workbench disks if it's running 3.0 - They are probably there with the A2000. For 1.3 and a 2.0 where crossdos wasn't installed, there's messydos from Aminet, which I used just fine. It means making an entry to the mountlist but this isn't hard, it's in the docs with messydos. Your only problem here is going to be getting messydos to the amiga.
Maybe you can find out what kickstart it's running before you go?
Truck: Rampage is not a 030 demo :) It works happily on any 68000 CPU. And it most likely doesn't contain any "defeat the f*xx0ring emulators" code either as back when it was released there were no Amiga emulators. :)
affirmative :)
also ... Vision Megademo IV is quite mandatory IMO
also ... Vision Megademo IV is quite mandatory IMO
Virtual World by Tomsoft
The tune is just so awesome it almost makes me cry, damn, what a Demo. I still have the original disk(s) for this heh.
If you are lazy though can just watch it on YouTube now: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iAyAz_aTdsY
But, it really is a must watch.
The tune is just so awesome it almost makes me cry, damn, what a Demo. I still have the original disk(s) for this heh.
If you are lazy though can just watch it on YouTube now: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iAyAz_aTdsY
But, it really is a must watch.
It's running Workbench 1.2 (I think) and my uncle also had a Workbench 1.3 disk for it. That's about all I know; that and we've played Skyfox, Marble Madness and some Defender clone on it.
As for the emulator, I'd forgotten about UAE, I was only thinking of the expensive Amiga Forever kinds of emulators. I'm not entirely sure how I'll get a kickstart ROM, but that's the next step I guess.
As for the emulator, I'd forgotten about UAE, I was only thinking of the expensive Amiga Forever kinds of emulators. I'm not entirely sure how I'll get a kickstart ROM, but that's the next step I guess.
Ok - if it's running 1.2 - and he has a Workbench 1.3 disk - is it a 2000, or a 1000? Do you have to boot kickstart from a disk before you boot workbench?
If so - well, that rules (: But it would mean that unless your uncle hacked about with the hardware and installed a fatter Agn[e|u]s, it's definately an OCS machine.
Which you're out of luck for finding the demos on Pouet, because some people absolutely REFUSE to acknowledge that there is a difference between OCS demos and ECS demos.
Luckily, this problem does NOT exist at DemoZoo, where you CAN tag demos as OCS. Thanks Gasman.
And yes, Virtual World is an absolute must as well.
Stingray: Check the .nfo here for what may have led to the anti-emulation code discussion Banana and I had, and why the 030 may have come out of the discussion (:
If so - well, that rules (: But it would mean that unless your uncle hacked about with the hardware and installed a fatter Agn[e|u]s, it's definately an OCS machine.
Which you're out of luck for finding the demos on Pouet, because some people absolutely REFUSE to acknowledge that there is a difference between OCS demos and ECS demos.
Luckily, this problem does NOT exist at DemoZoo, where you CAN tag demos as OCS. Thanks Gasman.
And yes, Virtual World is an absolute must as well.
Stingray: Check the .nfo here for what may have led to the anti-emulation code discussion Banana and I had, and why the 030 may have come out of the discussion (:
seppjo, that's a pretty accurate description ;)
I'd say, if you're in the USA and want to watch Amiga demos properly, get a PAL Amiga, a PAL C1081/1084 monitor, and a travel 110/220V adapter.
Otherwise you'll miss ALL of the heavenly glory! :)
Well, seriously. You will only be able to enjoy like 0.01-0.02% of all demos released. Decide if that's what you want. You could go with a PC CRT that does 720x576 (or larger, like 800x600) in 50 Hz also, and use WinUAE.
I'd say, if you're in the USA and want to watch Amiga demos properly, get a PAL Amiga, a PAL C1081/1084 monitor, and a travel 110/220V adapter.
Otherwise you'll miss ALL of the heavenly glory! :)
Well, seriously. You will only be able to enjoy like 0.01-0.02% of all demos released. Decide if that's what you want. You could go with a PC CRT that does 720x576 (or larger, like 800x600) in 50 Hz also, and use WinUAE.
