pouët.net

c64 is all cheating coz you have to install winvice for it.

soul_tripod, that's the point I wanted others to tell me their oponions about. For me, it kinda is.

for a start, it'd be rather hard to check if people "cheat" or not.
secondly, as you said yourself - if you take the windows speech synth, gm.dls and some wallpapers and APPLY SHITLOADS OF PROCESSING you can make something cool with it (otherwise they're pretty poor) - so, the processing itself can still be a pretty cool and interesting thing, and it'd be a shame to lose it.

thirdly, unlike in 4ks, in 64ks there's no saying whether using it will actually be a big advantage. what i mean is, sure you can use the gm.dls sounds, you can use some standard windows fonts, but 64k is enough room that somebody else can come along and make something that looks+sounds a lot better without using those resources, if they want. so it's not like your ability to find resources in the windows directory is the defining factor on whether you're gonna make a good 64k or not. as i remember, you yourself did some pretty impressive 64ks that didnt appear to use that much from windows, _and_ still had several k left on the sizelimit at the end. :)

true



probably true too.



well, it can help, but basically I must agree.

Ok, this is the end of the thread for me, I have my ideas a bit more organized now :)

You can now fill the thread with random cat pictures if you wish.

Let's hug instead.

cats are generally a good idea.

Hmm, if raised suspicision -> depends, if even more susp. -> debugger?

I can't believe i read thro this thread :(

sure, but who would want to do that at a demoparty while trying to get 15 entries for a compo checked? technically it's possible, but it's usually not worth the effort. (especially when most "cheats" can be avoided by doing a specific install.)

The fact that we can do this is probably one of the main reasons for me taking the time in creating the new toolchain. We'll see how it fares soon enough :)

wow, an interesting pouet thread! thanks iq! :)

i agree with the sentiments that there's really no way to enforce it but i also have iq's feeling that depending on os data isn't right. isn't it annoying when you run some 4k or even 64k and it crashes? oops sorry my windows directory is in a diff place and i delete dlls when i'm bored. oh well those prods just won't get my thumb up. ;)

There's pretty much sense in some of the messages.
I also think methods of creating and manipulating data play a great part (4k's "cheating" with D3DX funcs is just a way to save a couple of kilos, your old good matrix/vector/quat routines won't waste that much space in 64k). That's just a small tool helping to bring your ideas to life, but not the main basis (like I remember some people were thinking FR managed to find a kind of hidden data in windows mazes).
I think the fact that really helped the scene to increase its level in past years was sharing the ideas (think no one would underestimate atg, FR's articles and some more in HUGI and some random places).
So what I'm talking about is I'd (think some more people would second this) be sincerely interested in finding out about the way you do it your way (which could be a good starting point for further motion)

I agree that, for sure, 64Kb/4kb/256b intros and procedural aspects was the more interesting theme to study/dig/watch these last years, giving a sense to our movement just as we needed to go further. Not only procedural code, it also involves application architecture now, to my mind. Using or not more or less system functions is a false problem to my mind.
Don't forget that by using system functions, you loose portability, and specificity comparing to OS known features and other intros work.( Anyone can recognize what is a system font or not. Where are the bitmap fonts gone BTW ? )