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Youtube is degrading audio after upload, and this will affect the Demoscene.

category: general [glöplog]
Not everything is an accusation. (sorry, couldn't resist it) :]
added on the 2021-11-23 14:01:29 by ham ham
all amiga programmers are blittering idiots! (muhwuahuahua, finally found a use for that bad pun)
added on the 2021-11-23 15:14:01 by Maali Maali
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I don't know Photon and I don't know if he's done anything to deserve this treatment

maybe you should investigate a bit before dishing out gay slurs if you're really so opposed to bullying?
added on the 2021-11-23 15:25:28 by havoc havoc
What your lazy reply is really telling is that either your reading skills aren't up to what should be expected from a moderator, or that you've identified yourself with the shitty behavior I'm denouncing that seems to happen in this community from time to time. Yeah, let's now pick on me instead of really thinking about what I'm saying. I have no problem with that. Maybe ban me and continue proving my point, so you can continue bullying people with the peace of mind of holding the ban hammer instead of doing your job and stopping people shitting on this Pouet user.
added on the 2021-11-23 15:45:21 by Debvgger Debvgger
maybe you should investigate what being a "moderator" on this site entails before going all holier-than-thou? (hint: it has nothing to do with the bbs...)
added on the 2021-11-23 19:24:28 by havoc havoc
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I think it's more concerning that Youtube turns realtime demos into pure animations


But that's just a change of algorithmic basis; a reprojection of a special purpose rendering program (demo) into a general purpose rendering algorithm (MP4 decompression).

In fact, there's a lot more math and realtime computation going on in the decompression of a MP4 stream that in rotating the 3D cube displayed in it.... So, things are complicated. And yet simple - animations suck. But do they? Why? I keep going in circles.
added on the 2021-11-23 20:32:51 by iq iq
Let's face it, compressed videos are good because thanks to them our hard disks will not be eaten by massive oversized modern PC demos. :]
added on the 2021-11-23 21:21:20 by ham ham
I only quickly scanned through the comments here, but ..

Youtube's audio quality has always been shitty! I noticed that from day 1 I uploaded stuff there over a decade ago, and I keep saying to people to please download my stuff from either my website or scene servers etc. if they like what they hear, because it'll sound so much better! :O
added on the 2021-11-23 21:29:26 by SunSpire SunSpire
HERE is a video to prove my point. Just listen to all that background garbage in low volume parts of the song, it's awful!
added on the 2021-11-23 21:31:18 by SunSpire SunSpire
just to be sure : try this version done in 2017 720p. Better or not ??
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HERE is a video to prove my point. Just listen to all that background garbage in low volume parts of the song, it's awful!


I haven't had a chance to hear this, but I know exactly what you mean: compression artefacts in audio are HORRIBLE, I couldn't bear to hear them in my own MP3 recordings in the past.
added on the 2021-11-24 01:24:16 by Foebane72 Foebane72
Cyperping brings up a good point and it could be down to just personal taste & capture technique. His link from 2017 still does not match the the 2014 version audio wise but is great visually, Both in 720p. The 2014 version clearly is more crisp sounding.

There is probably an easier answer and is maybe down do something else "waves at Amiga audio filter" /hola cap technique
added on the 2021-11-24 01:27:53 by RDS RDS
To each there own, different sounding and how crisp it is may not represent what you remember /waves at 6581/8580 https://youtu.be/Qu0ywRpKh4I
added on the 2021-11-24 01:36:52 by RDS RDS
The quality has been lowered after the upload, and my links are provided as evidence. I'm amazed that Slummy thinks he has a thought in a discussion such as this, and that his thought consists of personal attack.

Google is a monopoly corporation. This means no conspiracy theory is required. If you consume the output the assimilate, all you have to do is observe and decide if it's something you want.

With the capitalist version of free, there's nothing you can do, because you didn't buy a product and you're therefore not a consumer and have no rights whatever. Certainly, the uploaders can do nothing because the video was already uploaded and Google downgraded it, without providing notice, warning, or a way to prevent the downgrade. Of the output from you that they assimilated to grow big.
added on the 2021-11-27 01:48:47 by Photon Photon
Just upload something, download it, store it and share it and then wait to prove your point. Until it's proven it's a conspiracy theory.
Also do you think you are the first in the world to notice, if this would be the case? If it would, the internet would be full of discussions regarding this.
added on the 2021-11-27 08:24:54 by v3nom v3nom
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I'm amazed that Slummy thinks he has a thought in a discussion such as this, and that his thought consists of personal attack.


While it might be a bit sarcastic, I'm not sure how "I agree. People are inherently clued-in, and always respectful about capturing other people's content and uploading it to YT." becomes a personal attack?

My point was simply that people make a lot of crap demo captures, so it's overly optimistic to think that bad audio would prevent someone from uploading something.
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Google is a monopoly corporation. This means no conspiracy theory is required.

I don't even know what to call this fallacy, it's so far out.
added on the 2021-11-27 22:00:41 by Sesse Sesse
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Google is a monopoly corporation. This means no conspiracy theory is required.

I don't even know what to call this fallacy, it's so far out.

Google, Apple, Microsoft etc do what they want with your stuff, because they provide a free service (in return for you having first accepted them mining your data and/or spamming you with ads). Because you didn't pay, you're not a customer and have no rights, unlike with normal companies where you buy a product.

You can only call something a conspiracy theory if it requires many parties conspiring together. For the videos on Youtube, only one corporation calls the shots and they can do what they want without conspiring with anyone.

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just to be sure : try this version done in 2017 720p. Better or not ??

The point is that the other 480p videos looked and sounded good before and after upload. The video is a product of recoding and the heavy artifacts were accepted at the time. However, audio is not affected this way unless it's reduced to voice comms levels, and this was not done on upload then as it would be unacceptable by viewers. Even as low as twice the voice comms levels would play the sound without these artifacts.

I guess it's just a realization that at some point, all captures will look and sound unacceptably bad on Youtube. There's one more option, if we are not running demos anymore but watch captures: We could recap and switch service or host ourselves (as we once did for videos, but streaming).

All my posts are written coming from a long-term perspective: This thing we're into, the Demoscene, has the potential of leaving a legacy. Obviously I think it's great, but that's just opinion. Objectively, though, it is a type of software separate from utilities and games, so it is special, and on top of this it is rich with history, moreso than a sport ("the golf scene") or a style of music ("the jazz scene"). These last two points alone warrant its continuation. The fear is that it will die with us and leave no trace, and no-one will have heard of it or write that type of software again.

We could do more with outreach and PR to go out with a bang, but I think we should look at all types of preservation to leave this legacy - if the demo platform hardware no longer functions and even the captures go to rot, there will be no trace left except perhaps of old discussions on forums about this mysterious type of software that can no longer be run, seen, or heard.
added on the 2021-12-03 15:55:14 by Photon Photon
To be fair there are a couple bbstros (who would have thought) and cracktros whose only trace is a yt video atm. So a capture in that case is great. But in the end a demo is a demo and a capture of a demo is a capture of a demo. It is convenient if you do not have the hardware to run, sure, but the preservation of the actual binaries is more a thing today as far as i can tell compared to 25 years ago. If e.g. youtube shuts down tomorrow and there are no more captures (good or bad) of demos and it in fact affects the scene then it is really dead. Will the scene be remembered in 100 years? Who knows. So let's enjoy as long as we can.
HELAU! \o/
added on the 2021-12-03 16:52:44 by Sir Sir
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if the demo platform hardware no longer functions and even the captures go to rot

That's what emulation is for, I guess?
added on the 2021-12-03 18:38:53 by absence absence
better store every video capture on VHS then before it's too late!
added on the 2021-12-03 19:36:13 by Maali Maali
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if the demo platform hardware no longer functions and even the captures go to rot

That's what emulation is for, I guess?


In my personal experience, people frown on emulation when it comes to captures.
added on the 2021-12-04 06:24:50 by Foebane72 Foebane72
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better store every video capture on VHS then before it's too late!


Uhm, I threw away most of my VHS collection a couple years ago also because my last VHS player stopped working.

IF you really want to preserve a demoscene production, you have to record it on film and store it at a cool and dry place (like Hollywood studios do, they have a lot of the original filming reels stored in salt mines).

Digital storage is only short term (some of my Audio CDs from the 80s have started skipping during playback). Not only because of denigration, but also because there is no playback hardware anymore. A couple years ago I heard from some digital data on tape from Eastern Germany, which has become useless, because the hardware/software to read it is lost.
added on the 2021-12-04 23:22:28 by Salinga Salinga
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Digital storage is only short term (some of my Audio CDs from the 80s have started skipping during playback). Not only because of denigration, but also because there is no playback hardware anymore. A couple years ago I heard from some digital data on tape from Eastern Germany, which has become useless, because the hardware/software to read it is lost.


Then transfer, losslessly, that data to a newer format. It's really quite simple.

It's also not the first time old computer files have died because the software that used them is unusable, I saw a BBC News article on this over 10 years ago, so it's not a new thing.

It also reminds me of the long-lost Warhol artworks and drawings made on Amiga, and how they've tried to preserve those, and that was also a long time ago, too.
added on the 2021-12-05 12:33:03 by Foebane72 Foebane72

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