pouët.net

this one was a joke, right ?

Speed demos archive.
Some of them are really crazy (i.e. check Marble Madness or the interview about 'Zelda - Ocarina of Time')
(Optimus posted that link here some time ago, some other links to similar sites below there)

Yeah, but all of their efforts pale in comparison to the time and work I put into improving my drinking and masturbating skills.

What about pro sceners? Why not compare pro 3d graphics coders to casual gamers next?

Oh look, GuyBrush found something to complain about. YAWN

Meanwhile, the Protocol 42 folks have helped me more in a single week than anyone in the demoscene, including local people, has EVER helped me in 4 years. Mostly, as demonstrated here, demoscene people know how to bitch and complain.

So the Protocol 42 folks don't know what the demoscene is or how to accurately describe it -- BFD. Its just a text post that can be edited and corrected, but that won't stop pouet lamers from flaming about it forever and a day.

legalize : fuck you
(it's just a text post that can be edited and corrected)

Legalize: Laughing at funny stuff != complaining. Nobody has said anything negative about the Pilgrimage demoparty; we just think the gamers' conception of who we are is hilarious. If anything, it has sparked an intelligent discussion of whether or not the demoscene should recruit from the gaming community. Just chill out a bit, man. You're overreacting.

Heck, if anything, I expect Pilgrimage to be much better this year than last year. We get a much nicer party place, and I'll actually bring a computer with me this time. ;)

what s_tec said.

legalize if the text can be edited then why the fuck hasn't it been done yet? (it's been online since last january)

If you're so connected with the protocol42 guys i'd assume that you'd make sure that they have their facts straight..

uncle-x:
He hasn't done this because really, he can't risk pissing them off. Without P42, Pilgrimage will once again be a party where
1. there's no net connection or power or tables
2. there's no booze
3. everyone gets kicked out at 10pm and has to find cabs back to their hotels in the city of no cabs
4. the space is shared with wonk-ass dried gourd guitar players who kick us out to practice.

To be honest, P42 is the best thing to happen to Pilgrimage. It fixes all of the problems of coordination and organisation and resources. I just hope that it doesn't dilute it too much.

ehh?

i can't see how telling someone that they have some facts wrong on their website and that they should pretty please fix them is a case of "i don't want to piss them off".

if they get pissed off about that then they're not the kind of people you'd want to work with anyways...

Navis: this was no joke. And I have to admit that I do cheer when I see someone pull something like this: http://www.fmi.uni-passau.de/~hofer/v-943.mpg

GbND: You can't compare a pro demoscener to a pro gamer, as there are no pro demosceners. The reason is that there is quite a bunch of people who are willing to pay for seeing others play games. On the other hand there is hardly anyone who pays for watching demos. I don't want to say that gaming is a better hobby just because there is a larger audience. I just want to say, if you judge gamers, you should better know what you are talking about.

Many demosceners seem annoyed when gamers speak about the demoscene without having the slightest clue. Why do you think it should be different the other way round?

I'm sorry for the dead link. Try http://rapidshare.de/files/863681/final_street_fighter.mpg.html and press on FREE if you are interested what I was talking about... I should get some web space [cough]...

chock: some demosceners have made the games those gamers play. (e.g. a fair number of people at dice, who made battlefield, are sceners.)
they consume, we produce.

all fair, but chock does have a point. Thing is, people keep want to merge these two 'scenes' for some inane reason. (or, well, money is maybe not that inane. nevermind) But it is a fact that gamers and sceners will never really mix, some exceptions (like pinza) ofcourse to prove the rule.

I saw it last year at Demozone. Some of the Campzone gamers where really interested in what we did, but most of them just sat in their tents and played Unreal, or Keen or whatever these kids play these days. That's how it will always be! A decade ago when you did something creative with computers you instantly joined the demoscene because there was nothing else. These days kids can choose to do all kinds of wonky shit on their machines, so live and let live people!

I think it's awesome for Pilgrimage if their party becomes better because of these people!

okkie is right, there's too many other good outputs for creativitiy on computers these days (which dont involve begging a lame-ass coder to fix their 3ds max exporter)

People pay to watch other people playing games?! That's just strange.

and Dago is awesome!

I'm pretty sure that's the slogan for this year's Pilgrimage, right there:

Pot/Kettle.

smash: Just because gamers don't produce the games they play doesn't mean they are not productive (i.e. only consumers). Would you say a 100m dasher is only a consumer because the shoes he wears are made by someone else? The game is just the sportsgear for the gamer. Like the computer is the sportsgear for the demoscener.

But anyways, everything I say is pointless. I completely agree with okkie.

psonice: ... i.e. people in stadiums watching football matches? ;)
Effectively it's a bit bizarre if related to videogames...
but the world nowadays is full of funny things, expecially on the Internet.

I also don't get all the bitching on Machinima. I'm a huge fan of outing oneselfs creativity in any way of form. I have a few 'artist' friends who do all kinds of crazy shit with paint, stone, brawn, metal, used diapers, old jeans, 400 empty cigarette cartons (kindly supplied by me) and the likes. To one some of those works might be considered 'shite' to others some of these works are 'the absolute pinnacle of modern art!' taste, experiencing, etc etc etc. Oh art, what do you bring us, ladieda..

But I wander off form my point, if someone chooses to use any way to express himself creativily, might it be using the Halflife2 engine, Werkzeug or even Mariopaint. That is a cheerable fact, and he should at least be respected for his outing, like or dislike! Even a gamer is using a certain creativity to win, and watching some gamers play is a fucking art on itself. I had the liberty to saw the infamous Fatal1ty at work and by Brent Spiner, that man is scaringly awesome at what he does!

I think this has been said over and over and a bitter part of oldskoolers will never accept this cause 'if it ain't coded by yourself, it MUST suck anus and/or <farmanimal>cock!'

Sorry for this Optimussize lecture on nothing, I have a day off. Good news is, I did get a haircut this morning!

My daughter is pretty artistic with diapers too, though most of the time what she produces is just shite too. Sounds like she'd get on well with your friends ;-)

I agree that observing some talented gamers is a possibly equivalent experience to watching the World Cup finals (Superbowl in Usanian). Hell, at Assembly, KB and I were fortunate enough to witness a person playing DDR disturbingly proficiently, using two mats simulteanously and never missing a beat, ending the song coda with a perfect backroll.

Then again I think there should be a certain level of quality, performance style, skill, etc. that separates the "pro" from the amateur - both in gaming (=sport) and the demoscene (=arts). There's a large portion of gamers who are just shooting around random and hurling insults in CS without any skill whatsoever. But also you dont want to be proud of Nextempire either.

Point is: Cutting slack from gamers is not necessarily rightful - prove yourself, that might work better.

Nah... I'll prove it to you. Find me a good musician and a coder who can write some groovy shader routines and I will present you with a demo running inside a game, as a mod, made with regular editing tools, that doesn't suck.