pouët.net

let's say we banned every group that couldn't find
a decent artist/musician. then the scene could become
an isolated island with few groups that compete.
that would be fun... erm

let me just reiterate:

if you claim you cannot find a decent artist or musician you just weren't trying. I mean, FUCKING HELL, how many artists are there on mp3.com who would be dying for you to use their soundtrack, if you'd just ask?

very good. that is true. but how about pixel.com.
does that excist?

sorry... it does exist,:) but it doesn't provide kick azz graphicans.
there is a lot of people that can put som sounds togheter and
call it music, but you can't do the same with gfx, if you catch my drift

if you lack the social skills to build something with people .. and i mean PEOPLE, not their artefacts, then i don't even see why you bother with forming a group, rather
than sticking to do pure-code. The best stuff is made when musicians|graphicians are not working for you but with you.

MrMessiah: Marching Cubes has been patented since the beginning, because in the US, patenting algorithms is possible (just like in Japan). It's luckily still illegal in Europe - though some people try to change that. Anyway, noncommercial usage of Marching Cubes is free, so that's not a problem for the demo scene.

Dalton: It's not silly to try to get a permission. Look at Metropol (too lazy to search the production id now), which uses a commercial track by Lunatic Calm with permission. (Which is totally OK imho). Anyway, not even trying is what really bothers me.

Superfrog: www.digitalart.org features really great stuff, so, yes, you CAN find graphicians if you really want (and try to).

superfrog: what knos said. just because there's not one convenient website where all gfx-artists congregate doesn't mean there aren't any.

but anyway, pointless discussion.

it is pointless...
but thanks for the info guys. :)

Knos wrote "Wain, something I like about the "boring" adjective, is that it often tells far more about the lack of imagination and inadaptability of the spectator rather than anything about the commented work."

Wain responds: The most arrogant piece of shit i have ever read. Sorry.

Arrogance only hurts would-be arrogant people. (nice try, with that 'piece of shit' bit)

Boring is an adjective that explicitely does not refer to
the material qualities of the "boring" object, but refers
to its effect on YOUR mind.

YES!!!!!!!!!!11

ryg, I agree with [bold]your[/bold] definition on Ripping, but on the other hand you could as well define it as using anything that "you dont hold a copyright on", using anything that wasnt made by yourself/your group (even if you do have [bold]permission[/bold] to do so). After all you would have still "ripped" the stuff from someone else, although [bold]with[/bold] permission.

And as far as I'm concerned, I think it's a lot more fun to produce things that are 100% yours, not just in part. That involves understanding what you are doing in detail. But that is my own personal attitude, I wouldnt [bold]condemn[/bold] people who dont share those ideals.
What is really lame though is people who claim to have created/developed something themselves, when in fact, most of it was made by someone else. It's even worse when the creator doesnt even know about that someone using his stuff without even giving credit.
Credit where credit is due. Dont claim stuff to be [bold]yours[/bold] when you dont even understand how it worx/how to make it.
There is so many examples of graphics that were originally created by a professional artist and then just scanned in by some lame kid and manipulated to make it look like they made it. Then they go around showing off their mad skills, lol.

Kwak.

Most scene musicians are going to tell you that ripping music sucks. Most coders are going to tell you it doesn't. Make a demo with original music, but ripped animations and game code, and see what the scene thinks about *that*.

it has happened before a dozen times :)

Most of you people talk like demoscene can decide the rules for ripping. Is ripping ok or not is not a matter of opinion, there are LAWS which say what is allowed and what is not.

Everyone of you that say ripping is ok, be warned. I'll use music and graphics from your demos and intros in my demo. I've got your permission to do it.

I was preety sad that I haven't coded any demo yet that is using sound. The reason was not because I wanted to play it oldschool and stuff, but most of them were intended for pure Quickbasic compos which didn't allowed using additional libraries. Fmod is a gift, I will get and hope it will be easy to adapt it in my (disgusting) VC++ code, ugh :P

But anyways,. that was not the point of the thread, I just thought of something irrelevant..

Ripping is happening very much in the Amstrad CPC, it's very understandable there, because there is the place were there are very few active sceners (In fact the CPC scene is THE Sleepy scene and everyone has a bad habit to overpass deadlines, me too of course ;-)) and a coder cannot wait for lazy French graphicians and musicians to send him stuff, in fact there are even projects for over than 5 years that standby because of not only lack of graphics/music but also because of general lazy attitude. But I am in there too and it fits my lazyness too =)

So there are great rips in CPC especially from older game/demo musics and nobody cares, since the scene is not producing for months. Several of the tunes are really familiar and could have been used more than 10 times in CPC demos! There they don't care, since the scene is sleepy and needs it...

Anyways I wrote too much in here. Would you like to have a look at my gfx rip btw in my quickbasic demo???

Feel free to use anything from my demos. If you get 'em running on your platform i'll be impressed. =-)

Optimus: So why haven't the coders taken up converting stuff? i saw a Speccy demo with the soundtrack from one of the Gradius games, ripped from the MSX and ported over so the CPC can do stuff like that too...?

Still, even ripping commercial music, game gfx and nehe effects most of the people out there would just stick to boring mainstream demos.

Let's make a "recycle" compo at some demoparty, using _only_ copyrighted material, and you'll see that there is still something you can't rip off someone else to make your demo an asskicker.

TMR: Yes,. I almost forgot. It happens on the CPC too. There were lately demos ripping musics from AtariSt. Also, the existence of YM music format will allow transfering of AtariSt, CPC, Spectrum, etc.. with the Yamaha soundchip compatible machines easilly, or also a cooperation of musicians from various platforms (Why hadn't we thought that before? Well,. each scene is a bit away and not many people from alternative scenes contacts each other. Each scene is a bit closed to it's machine. Or I don't know any other reason..)

Here is my ripped image!!! =)

I don't know the original author, it was a commercial prod, in fact a paper mask found in some tasty chips called draculinia or something, which my brother bought when he was very small in order to get the mask and Is Still hanging glued in the door of my (and my brothers in older times) room! ;-)



However it looked very oldschool/Amiga/deluxepaint/pixelpainted/1337 in my Quickbasic demo, har har har =))))

I didn't wrote all the story. I sticked the mask out of the door, scanned it in my father's scanner and then reglued it (Hope my brother didn't found it out, but no.. he has seen my demo! ;)

It all started when I brought a friend of mine in my home, he knew Second Reality but not the today's demoscene that time, he saw that mask and told me: "Hey, wouldn't that be great for using in a rotozoomer?!" and I said "Yo! Great idea!!! Why not?" and the rest is obvious..

Zone: "but in all cases, ripping commercial products is a sign of the end of your imagination and skills."

This is completly right, but I don't see ripping as a challenge (oldschool scene). Where is the challenge in using other ppl's work?

MrMessiah: The choice of the commercial soundtrack in 'Open your eyes' is quite ok, but I'm not so sure if only this track is able to give this demo the special feeling. A track from a scene musician will give it probably also a nice feeling, maybe just a bit different.

Stefan: There is no need to degrade classic tracker modules. Even in 1995 modules with more than 20 channels were used (just think about Dope with its 28channel module). And the number of used channels sais fairly nothing about the quality of a tune (just listen to some excellent 4channel modules from Cosmic/RR). You can make shit music with trackers but also with mp3.

I don't see too much of a problem with commercial music in demos personally but two points come to mind:

1) CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE! - my personal definition of ripping is when someone takes credit for someone elses work. if they used it credited then it's just borrowing

2) VOTE WITH A CONCIENCE - a commercial tune might turn a good demo into a great demo, but is the demo any good or are you just being seduced by your favourite fear factory track*?

another team have done a demo that's as good but they've put the effort in and it's 100% their work. which one do you vote for when you're sat at your party of choice? It's down to you, but I know which one i'd choose...


*This wasn't meant as a dig at popsy team - I just love resurrection, okay?