Combined Atari Falcon/TT section
category: general [glöplog]
hiya,
i know this mind sound a bit odd, we sort of already had that topic. i'd like to ask for your opinion on a combined Falcon/TT platform section in order to have TT-specific productions here at all, while a TT-only section wouldn't be reasonable due to lack of demos (well i've created a few, and there are maybe 2-3 more, summing up to maybe 8 prods. - i plan upon releasing a TT version of "beams" as well, just to let you know ;) ).
sure, hardwarewise the two machines might be quite diffrent in some ways (video-/sound-hardware, dsp), but more similar than TT <-> STE for instance...and plus they both belong to the league of true 32bit atari-machines. i guess a combined section would perhaps even encourage people to code some more TT-compatible stuff (believe me, it isn't that hard :) ).
in fact i believe basically renaming the "Falcon" section to "Falcon/TT" wouldn't be much of a great deal, what do you think?
regards,
ray
i know this mind sound a bit odd, we sort of already had that topic. i'd like to ask for your opinion on a combined Falcon/TT platform section in order to have TT-specific productions here at all, while a TT-only section wouldn't be reasonable due to lack of demos (well i've created a few, and there are maybe 2-3 more, summing up to maybe 8 prods. - i plan upon releasing a TT version of "beams" as well, just to let you know ;) ).
sure, hardwarewise the two machines might be quite diffrent in some ways (video-/sound-hardware, dsp), but more similar than TT <-> STE for instance...and plus they both belong to the league of true 32bit atari-machines. i guess a combined section would perhaps even encourage people to code some more TT-compatible stuff (believe me, it isn't that hard :) ).
in fact i believe basically renaming the "Falcon" section to "Falcon/TT" wouldn't be much of a great deal, what do you think?
regards,
ray
With 8 prods there's no problem with a unique category.
Is there a minimum amount for a machine at all, or isn't the spirit to have all machines listed with their demos here ?
TT is a specific and unique machine, even if rare it deserves an own area here I think.
TT is a specific and unique machine, even if rare it deserves an own area here I think.
Why not indeed.
icon
I dislike to pouetize this thread but it obviously calls for it:
MadenMann: hehe, yes it does!
Quote:
i plan upon releasing a TT version of "beams" as well, just to let you know ;) ).
That is interesting Ray. What differences are there from the Falcon version, from a technical/coding point of view? I'd immediately think you would benefit from the full 32mhz '030 but lose out on the DSP for the audio streaming. Would you assume fastram as standard as well? What other differences from the Falcon version of 'Beams' might there be?
Sorry, should have said "lack of DSP for audio streaming" on that last post.
Hi there CiH,
First of all, as already mentioned by you one would benefit from the TTs 32bit databus, its 32mhz and the videocontroller's imho mostly underestimated 64bit access to the machines STRAM....and right, as "already" known from Falcon accelerator-boards FastRAM musn't be underestimated either (of course only if 1. actually supported by the program, which is the case with beams and 2. if also deployed "carefully" (not the case with beams, as it directly renderes into STRAM sometimes even using the blitter))...which directly leads me to your latter points: features and chips missing in the TT
1. BLITTER: i would have to make up CPU versions of for instance the gouraud polyfiller and the pixelate filter used in some screens
2. A truecolor mode: the maximum amount of colors displayable at once (refraining from interlacing and other hardware cheats) by the TT's videohardware is 256. so i would have to subsample all of the demo's gfx and use some additional tables/advanced palettes to achieve some transparency-/overlay effects. since this 8bpp mode is actually bitplane-based i would be forced to use a c2p prolly cutting down the resolution to 160x200 pixels for speed (at least that's the plan). fortunately very fast c2p methods do exist (thanks to mikael kalms) actually enabling you to take advantage of available FastRAM (ref. to the familiar CT60 issue FastRAM (8bpp) c2p-> STRAM (8bpl) vs. FastRAM (8bpp) table-> STRAM (truecolor)).
3. As already pointed out by you, DSP: in a more general context than democoding i've been working out a concept for a DPCM/Wavelet based audio-codec getting by with a 68030 (perhaps /68882) system to decode its sound data. tbh, besides my currently broken Falcon, the challange of porting the demo itself and curiousity about the final result, this is the reason for me to try patching it to a TT version in the first place. i'd estimate this codecs performance to roughly eat 15-20% CPU time while giving a reasonable packrate (surely better than a large raw high-quality stereo sample being streamed off of HDD).
...so that's 3 major points, did i forget anything? hopefully, this reply didn't become too technical, just as much as i hope i could answer all of your questions.
regards,
ray
Quote:
What differences are there from the Falcon version, from a technical/coding point of view?
First of all, as already mentioned by you one would benefit from the TTs 32bit databus, its 32mhz and the videocontroller's imho mostly underestimated 64bit access to the machines STRAM....and right, as "already" known from Falcon accelerator-boards FastRAM musn't be underestimated either (of course only if 1. actually supported by the program, which is the case with beams and 2. if also deployed "carefully" (not the case with beams, as it directly renderes into STRAM sometimes even using the blitter))...which directly leads me to your latter points: features and chips missing in the TT
1. BLITTER: i would have to make up CPU versions of for instance the gouraud polyfiller and the pixelate filter used in some screens
2. A truecolor mode: the maximum amount of colors displayable at once (refraining from interlacing and other hardware cheats) by the TT's videohardware is 256. so i would have to subsample all of the demo's gfx and use some additional tables/advanced palettes to achieve some transparency-/overlay effects. since this 8bpp mode is actually bitplane-based i would be forced to use a c2p prolly cutting down the resolution to 160x200 pixels for speed (at least that's the plan). fortunately very fast c2p methods do exist (thanks to mikael kalms) actually enabling you to take advantage of available FastRAM (ref. to the familiar CT60 issue FastRAM (8bpp) c2p-> STRAM (8bpl) vs. FastRAM (8bpp) table-> STRAM (truecolor)).
3. As already pointed out by you, DSP: in a more general context than democoding i've been working out a concept for a DPCM/Wavelet based audio-codec getting by with a 68030 (perhaps /68882) system to decode its sound data. tbh, besides my currently broken Falcon, the challange of porting the demo itself and curiousity about the final result, this is the reason for me to try patching it to a TT version in the first place. i'd estimate this codecs performance to roughly eat 15-20% CPU time while giving a reasonable packrate (surely better than a large raw high-quality stereo sample being streamed off of HDD).
...so that's 3 major points, did i forget anything? hopefully, this reply didn't become too technical, just as much as i hope i could answer all of your questions.
regards,
ray
temporary icons till someone makes beautiful ones: 
I can't remember any official TT logo by the way, I made these up.
Clues anyone? Okkie? :)
Clues anyone? Okkie? :)
It's almost that. Check the Atari museum site.
But shouldn't we go for a Fuji logo like we did for the other Atari platforms ?
Let's say something in between the STe and Falcon platfom icons.
Let's say something in between the STe and Falcon platfom icons.
?Hi! I have a nicely upgraded TT too!
And for the Beams Demo, DONT forget the DMA audio! With good mixing the sound could turn out quite well..
Maybe this will make me keep my TT...
And for the Beams Demo, DONT forget the DMA audio! With good mixing the sound could turn out quite well..
Maybe this will make me keep my TT...
The Fuji is good and nice, but I can not spot a difference to the F030 one. Perhaps if they are close to each other you can.
The "TT" version of Keops is more clear here i think.
And Ray: Beams on TT thats really cool ! I cannot wait to see it !
The "TT" version of Keops is more clear here i think.
And Ray: Beams on TT thats really cool ! I cannot wait to see it !
Zweckform: True. I've increased the red-ish tint.
There are way too many fuji logos on pouet imo, it's a mess and it does not help identity the platforms at all in the end: Atari ST, Atari STE, Falcon...
Another fuji logo would just not be explicit and add even more confusion.
Another fuji logo would just not be explicit and add even more confusion.
Beams would be great on this machine! How much ST/TT RAM would you require?
the wavelet/dpcm streaming thing seems cool to me! i'd really love to discuss this one with ya on #atariscne? =)
the wavelet/dpcm streaming thing seems cool to me! i'd really love to discuss this one with ya on #atariscne? =)
Honnestly I sometimes don't even remember what all these icons mean, another one would be really a bad idea :)
the grey fuji is easily recognized as the STf one. (sadly the TT has the same color fuji on it IIRC). the STe one is a good one since it has rainbow TOS (click on desktop info ;)). the falcon one i really don't get. and if I'm not mistaking the XE/XL fuji was also metallic grey (again?) the letters XE and TT was do better here. The Falcon one could maybe be F30 (if this fits..).
i thought also about separate F30, F60 sections.. but since on Amiga it's also all one section (AGA) from 020@14 to 060@72, i guess just one falcon category will be fine.. everybody okay with that?
i thought also about separate F30, F60 sections.. but since on Amiga it's also all one section (AGA) from 020@14 to 060@72, i guess just one falcon category will be fine.. everybody okay with that?
good remarks.
Well I don't rarely have a problem to remeber the meaning of the icons, but honestly kinda like the Amiga fellows ( for the AGA ) the most important thing to me is that it's a prod on my platform of heart.
Well I don't rarely have a problem to remeber the meaning of the icons, but honestly kinda like the Amiga fellows ( for the AGA ) the most important thing to me is that it's a prod on my platform of heart.
so how about the logocolours for the lynx and jaguar categories? ok, i know only one prod on either platform.. but surely some day someone will decide to make more, even if it was just to annoy gloperators :))
Don't forget the two prods on the uncategorized /|\ VCS 2600!!!