pouët.net

since there was a slight discussion regarding this issue, i thought i might as well start a more general discussion.

how do you guys feel about djs playing your songs in their set? and yes, i was thinking when they get paid to dj.

also, how do you feel about vjs using parts of your demos in their vjsets? and again, yes even if they get paid.

and one more scenario .. what about demos being displayed in say a bar or such. how would you think about that?

because there are several solutions to this. is it ok to just use other peoples material? do you have to credit the makers in some way? perhaps even ask for permission? or maybe, to put it to an extreme, share the profit with the people who made the original work?

and yes, what i'm trying to do here is to see what people think about this. so go ahead and flame if that's what you find amusing..

(and just to be ahead of all you trollies: BASS!)

A nice thing would be some kind of standardized "scene prod license". More or less like GPL or so . Clear rules for using scene prods could solve all of the "problems" above.

I would suggest that such a license at least required the DJs and VJs to present the authors in some way, in the VJ case like the texts on MTV.

But maybe a license would be too formal ...

look at a normal vj show, tons of unlicensed material from tv/movies/interweb (that's what i see here anyway) and noone getting credit for that. So fuck it :) As for dj's playing a song, hmm, i remember a certain chicago based happyhardcore dj playing one of my songs in his set (he actually asked me about that) and just the fact that he played my track in a dampy club somewhere in chicago was cool enough to not care about cash, but that's my opinion. If you release music (or demos for that matter) on the web, keep in mind that it will be played/performed/stolen by other people.

Having a license doesn't mean you have to enforce it. If you feel that a VJ or DJ did something cool with your prod it's fine. But if some lame ass, sucky VJ earns a lot of money by entertaining people with your prods you can beat him up legally.

does that ever happen then? cause i rarely see VJ's with original material. (which they haven't bought, cause Disney would never let you VJ with Bambi, nou would they :))

Okkie once used one of my tracks to get sex. and he didn't ask for permission!

but really, gem..people showing/displaying your work is one thing. Making big money on it is another. Distributing it is yet another. There is something called "Fair use". This isn't a static term, it's kind of a case-to-case thing.

hehe, sorry dominei. and i didn't use it to get sex, it came by when i had sex (slightly different)

<Erzo`> I was on a Goa/Psytrance party yesterday
<Erzo`> rather big party, many people
<Erzo`> 1 big dance room
<Erzo`> 1 'tribal' room
<Erzo`> 1 'chill out' room
<Erzo`> and in the chill out room
<Erzo`> they played video's .... AND DEMO'S
<Erzo`> Guess what :P
<Erzo`> Conspiracy - A place called universe
<Erzo`> Seen it twice yesterday
<Erzo`> on bigscreen
<Erzo`> I was STUNNED :)
<Erzo`> Your demo was shown on a wall :) while much spaced out people were looking
<Erzo`> very very cool :)

I saw our demo in VJ mixes a couple of times... I just wish people would ask when the origin is so clear.

Sidenote: a locally well known oldskool hungarian band approached us (=Conspiracy) to lend them some of our intros as background visuals to their upcoming gig and provided full credits for us. That's the way how it should be done.

okkie: ah ok :)
gargaj: exactly.

gargaj : whoa ! hope noone had badtrip getting loaded by lyrics XD you know, they are pretty unclear when sober and i dont even want to think of what could happen to one on acid :D

to also provide an opposite view: our stuff (ainc) was played at some goa-parties, too, but actually the guys asked in advance.

but to be honest i don't give a shit if they use my stuff without asking!

so generally, djs and vjs don't have to ask before they use scene-related stuff, but it's nice if they do .. and money doesnt really matter in that case?

gemini: If the vj/dj asks me, i guess i would take it as an complement. but if not, then i wouldnt like it at all.

if somebody where to make money on shit ive spendt ages on making, without asking me, i would feel a bit ass-raped, and prolly so mad that i would make the person feel gangbang ass-raped.

I wouldn't feel to miffed about these people's inability to hand credit where credit due. They make a living out of crossfading VHS tapes mostly, reaffirming the idea that 99.9% of the VJ crowd are hopeless idiots anyway.

but it is always cool too know where your stuff is used so that you can brag about it and cover up your geek indentities in coolness

well, quite frankly i have lost count how many times ive seen the mental excession series been played on da big funky white paper with an photosonic extravaganza amplifier. but, hearing ahnions music makes it all worth it .. seriously.

so, hereby i allow gemini to play *mental excession* stuff 24h/compusphere day.

so...what about creative commons? isn't that exactly what this is about?

its not DJ who pays for the tracks they spin, its club owner who who's having contract with some copyright company [like ASCAP, BMI] who collects the mechanical royalities in the name of author -- ofcourse many clubs dont have those contracts and at least here in Latvia, the approach is absolutely senseless, cause no DJ leaves playlist after his/her set and there's noone to know all those tracks and write them down during party

as about VJs, its still a very new trend and very early in the development [although DJing seem to be stuck on 2 turntables for 20+ years as well with some novelties coming in just recently].. still, unlike Shifter says, its much more than xfading 2 VHS tapes -- the material is mostly an own developed loops incorporating special tricks to make it widely mixable/blendable/diverse in relation to 2nd and [often] 3rd video sources developed the same specific way.. cause video mixer is normally more complicated than audio mixer, having several mixing modes. in fact VJs often play their own material only, like few DJs do. and those working with own programmed/defined material in a more interactive way using computor, is more of a live performance than jockeying at all, aight?

never been VHS-VJ myself tho', just knowing enough talented mates doing beautiful performances once in a while..

hey, welcome to the world!!

a.k.a. if you don't want people to play/use/sell/eat/rape your work then don't release it.


and fuckings to the legal crap, i mean as if *any* of you guys are ever going to sue or otherwise legally threaten anybody anyway.

everyone knows that stuff you release for free is for free. adding a 10 page license won't stop those who don't care about that.

if someone made money with my stuff, i at least would make a fucktro :)

skrebbel: yeah, im somewhat on your side. but i dont have a lot of money (current beeing), so when i invest lotsa time on making a demo, ofcourse i dont do it for the money, but because its fun and giving. But if someone made money on the things i made, i cant see logic. Anyone can watch / play a demo, but should the 'players' get money for pushing my work? ofcourse i want people to watch my stuff, but why should 'players' (vj's who dont make their own stuff) get money for playing demos? The demos i make, are made for myself and for people, noone shold pay money to see the stuff, noone should make money on my stuff (demos).

Not here it is, provided you omit networking with hip people while completly ignoring what the fuck is happening to your set :) There's a lot more to *good* VJing, it's just that it RARELY happens. I tend to get very, very upset by most acts here :)

Since I make demos because I want people to watch them I have no problem if they want to own money on my work sending it on tv, dj'n or whatever... I just don't care.. if they send me a beer and a thankyou-card I'll be more than happy.

shift: damn right about the fact with the crappy vj'ing, i remember a certain sonar festival :(

the dutch must be the crappiest vj's ever.. (or, not to offend, i should say _most dutch_)