pouët.net

b00zie: w0rd.

You mean like this? :D

http://pouet.net/topic.php?which=1373&page=1&x=17&y=4

ManJIT: that's like asking if black metal is better than hiphop. no, it's not. no genre is better than another, and this also goes for demos. it's imo the particular productions who might bring quality into the debate. and in this case, your demo got mentioned in the same context as the word "crowd pleaser". i understood it as an EFFECT in it being a crowd pleaser, not the entire demo. your demo is NOT a crowd pleaser. atleast it didn't please me. it's ugly and uninterresting, that's why people thumb it down. now quit being a drama queen about it.

oh, and btw, fourth place at this years gathering is NOT a particulary good position.

> Are "crowd pleasing" demos bad?

no

Hehehehee... goth style is like any other "sub" culture fashion trend. The only difference is goths (and "punks" etc.) don't want to realize they're following a trend. Which makes them pathetic.

And yes, crowd pleasing demos are bad, but they tend to please the crowd, so they win. Not much to do about that except burn the partyplace to the ground when the demo you worked so hard on lost because it wasn't pleasing enough to the crowd. Which is harder than it sounds.

nonsense!

Hey guys, I honestly don't know why you think I'm whining. Perhaps you're used to that from your boyfriends/girlfriends and mistake any kind of discussion for being whining, but it's not the case here. You can thumb us down as much as you like.

The case was that I noticed the term "crowd pleasing" in Navis' comment about our demo. Then I saw a few compo winners being thumbed down for being crowd pleasing. I did the mistake to try to discuss this with you guys. Sorry.

are demos in general bad?

michael jackson certainly is..

If crowdpleasing demos are bad for the scene, then why the fuck are we having competitions?

I can honestly say I think different whenever there's a compo production involved. All my compo tunes that had any kind of success are "crowdpleasers" to some extent, and several of them are in fact really, really cheesy. Why? Because I like a good laugh, a fun demo or a well-made song that appeals to everyone.

I've never consider demos to be a "serious art", whatever the fuck that is. Beautiful and impressive, yes, but in the end it's just geeks doing it for shits and giggles. And in some cases, fame and money. But never for the "art".

No really, crowd-pleasing demos ARE bad. Which is to say, demos that don't have any qualities apart from being crowd-pleasing are bad. Demos that focus too much on pleasing the crowd and not on originality, style, etc., are also bad, even if they have some other qualities.

But of course the crowd disagrees. They like the flashing C= logos and rave beats and all that. So discussing it's pointless. ;)

"If crowdpleasing demos are bad for the scene, then why the fuck are we having competitions?"

genitalia measurement.

There's nothing known as "serious art".

blame the crowd, not the demos

if your demo is not crowdpleasing, you suck and deserve to be shot.

teetow and doom: Thanks for achieveing something I didn't---get this thread back on track. ;-)

MHO is more or less like doom's ... crowd pleasing elements can give a nice community feeling at compos. After all we are very much a subculture and have our own humor, nostalgia and metrics. But crowd pleasing elements become bad and indulging when they are not mixed up with originality and parts showing off skills in design, code, graphics, modeling and music.

The Scene Awards are a way to parry consequences of bad voting at parties. I guess they are followed by much more respect. At least that is how I have interpreted ASD's best demo of the year and public's choice---Planet Risk.

if you ask me, every good demo has atleast one crowd-pleaser. like the crawlotron in meet the biots, or when sperm met ovum in we cell. okay, some exceptions exist (like kolonija), but they just prove the rule ;)

i don't quite see why crowd pleasing =! art. it's not like anybody else decides what is art and not art.

for me, demos are art and almost the most perfect form of it. but ofcourse, to some arty art-art person they probably are rubbish.

so what can we learn from that? it's simple, the word art is infact subjective. now let's stop this stupid discussion and get on with it. some like crowd pleasing elements, some don't. i'd say it doesn't really matter. because, frankly, is winning compos the only reason for people to makes demos?

back when i made demos, i made them just for the money and the chicks.

gemini, now here there was a wonderful, implicitly agreed and massive attempt to *not* make this thread ever be about what art is. everybody got it, everybody silently avoided the topic, and now you blew everything!

YES! COMPOWINNERS GET US THEM CRACKHOS FOH FREE!

i'll take the crack whore.

skrebbel: well that's my job, isnt it .. the regular pain in the ass (not literally speaking) :D

but... are people who like crowd-pleasing demos bad? In which case crowds in general would be bad and so would be parties and competitions.

and I'm still not certain to know what a "crowd-pleasing" demo is anyway, maybe I should pay Okkie's shop a visit ;)

well keops, you bloody made two crowdpleasing intros!

*hands free cluepack to keops*