The future of pixelling / static graphics in demos : a question
category: general [glöplog]
Is it just me or have (taking a few exceptions into account) pixelled images in demos rapidly deteriorated over the years? Has the importance of the trade degenerated? If so, is there any sort of transformation taking place? What are your views?
gba and mobile demos still apply those - and hell even I would if there would be one graphician on earth who doesnt disappear right in the moment i start to plan project details :(
i used to think lack of pixel work was natural evolution from the increase of standard display resolution.
but animations have also started beeing less usual. even vector stuff.
either 3d has taken over our souls or there are less 2d artists active in the scene.
or, ofcourse, we're dead. :)
but animations have also started beeing less usual. even vector stuff.
either 3d has taken over our souls or there are less 2d artists active in the scene.
or, ofcourse, we're dead. :)
as a sidenote, (but kinda offtopic since it doesn't really prove anything) ... gfzone is mentioned as the only site as far as graphics are concerned on demoscene.info (as opposed to a number of sites about other scene "trades"), and it hasn't been updated since forever... Yet, #pixel is the most active scene-related channel on ircnet..
"pixel is the most active scene-related channel on ircnet.."
it is? thats pretty depressive.. O_o
it is? thats pretty depressive.. O_o
Is that so? Did Boris Vallejo stop drawing nice 2D graphics for the demoscene? :)
ha! boris quit the scene for sure!
i'm always on #pixel... that doesn't mean much :)
I'd personally like to see more 2D work integrated into "modern" demos. And in fact I do think there is a bit more than a few years ago...
I really miss seeing good 2d artwork in demos. Sometimes the art was more stunning than the demos. Also I really miss seeing good slideshows like the classics on the Amiga such as 7 seas, Wild and Revelations.
I think about demos like Tint by TBL and the pixel work played a major role.
Demos now are more practical and graphics are meant to do something, but I liked seeing pixellers show off their skills with pics and logos.
One thing I really don't get is I see loads of kickass logos for groups (Kenet has made loads for example) but they're never used. Wtf? And there are loads of cool images floating around, released in gfx compos and it would take nothing for their groups to use them in their demos or make a slideshow.
I think about demos like Tint by TBL and the pixel work played a major role.
Demos now are more practical and graphics are meant to do something, but I liked seeing pixellers show off their skills with pics and logos.
One thing I really don't get is I see loads of kickass logos for groups (Kenet has made loads for example) but they're never used. Wtf? And there are loads of cool images floating around, released in gfx compos and it would take nothing for their groups to use them in their demos or make a slideshow.
My take on the phenomonon: The "death' of 8-bit (4-bit? 1-bit?) hand-pixeled graphics actually opens demoscene work wide open to anyone who can work a tablet, fractal design painter, etc. A lot more "traditional" artists can contribute now. If there has been a lack of original art in demos recently, I wouldn't worry.
However, at the same time, I am a little saddened by the loss of hand-pixeled graphics in 256 colors, 32 colors, or even 2 colors... there is a discernable art to creating excellent graphics under such limited conditions, lending itself to all sorts of creative techniques like making sure objects are perfectly centered on pixel axis' to make that 1-pixel highlight work... that kind of thing.
I know that every time the scene evolves, it is both inevitable and curious. But at the same time, don't get pissed off at me if I shed a tear whenever a major facet disappears, like software rasterisers... or 4-channel mod music... or hand-pixeled graphics. Those kinds of creative solutions to home computer artistry are the kinds of things that are unique to our hobby and give demos their distinct flavor.
However, at the same time, I am a little saddened by the loss of hand-pixeled graphics in 256 colors, 32 colors, or even 2 colors... there is a discernable art to creating excellent graphics under such limited conditions, lending itself to all sorts of creative techniques like making sure objects are perfectly centered on pixel axis' to make that 1-pixel highlight work... that kind of thing.
I know that every time the scene evolves, it is both inevitable and curious. But at the same time, don't get pissed off at me if I shed a tear whenever a major facet disappears, like software rasterisers... or 4-channel mod music... or hand-pixeled graphics. Those kinds of creative solutions to home computer artistry are the kinds of things that are unique to our hobby and give demos their distinct flavor.
You know, I think you have it in reverse.
It is because there's no need anymore for low-res low-bitresolution graphics that the scene graphicians now must not feel connected to the scene anymore as, having learned to use the fancy classic tools of the computer graphics trade, they don't actually need to be featured in the scene anymore, but can manage on their own via their own websites and scenes.
It is because there's no need anymore for low-res low-bitresolution graphics that the scene graphicians now must not feel connected to the scene anymore as, having learned to use the fancy classic tools of the computer graphics trade, they don't actually need to be featured in the scene anymore, but can manage on their own via their own websites and scenes.
or maybe it's cos the current fashion in demos is for a lot of generated stuff.
or maybe its cos the current fashion in demos is to do the work in a couple of days, and not bother spending time to do some decent pixel art. =)
or maybe it's cos the current fashion in demos is to design carefully around a theme, so you need the pixel art to fit the demo, not just the pixeler to dump his latest works on it.
or maybe it's cos the current fashion in demos has moved away from the old "flat 2d background with 3d effect on top" which was popular in the late 90s-early 2000s, where there was a lot of 2d art used.
or maybe it's because.. oh i dunno. =) i'd like to see more 2d in demos (and 64k intros.. ooh) and we personally try and use it whereever we can.
or maybe its cos the current fashion in demos is to do the work in a couple of days, and not bother spending time to do some decent pixel art. =)
or maybe it's cos the current fashion in demos is to design carefully around a theme, so you need the pixel art to fit the demo, not just the pixeler to dump his latest works on it.
or maybe it's cos the current fashion in demos has moved away from the old "flat 2d background with 3d effect on top" which was popular in the late 90s-early 2000s, where there was a lot of 2d art used.
or maybe it's because.. oh i dunno. =) i'd like to see more 2d in demos (and 64k intros.. ooh) and we personally try and use it whereever we can.
short deathlines and the fact that some ppl learned that you cant stupidly mixing 3d and 2d like in the old days prevents us from seeing more static 2d at demos.
there would be still enough room for 2d if someone would actually start to texture their 3d stuff instead of using just psychodelic scenes.
there would be still enough room for 2d if someone would actually start to texture their 3d stuff instead of using just psychodelic scenes.
smash....
I just love people who completely shatter an entire debate by blurting out insighful truths.
I just love people who completely shatter an entire debate by blurting out insighful truths.
my graphician point of view :
- 2d pixeled gfxs are interesting to make only with poor resolution like 64x64px (320x256 max size), in 800x600 there absolutly no interest to create a picture as demoscene style.
- using photoshop to modify a photo is easy even for the newbies, what is the interest to use about 100 hours to create an original picture when a newbie apply 2 filters on a photo in 3 hours and win the gfxcompo.
- 2d pixeled gfxs are interesting to create in few colors, but today too much people use 24bits and flash vecto technology, so bitmap pixel by pixel is not interesting to do for pc demos.
- too much newbies are not able to make the difference between a photo and a drawing, they only vote for nude females, so there is not interest to create a 2d picture for a demoparty gfx compo, the audience is not interesting.
- there is a lot of TTF fonts, and create an original bitmap font takes too much and unuseful time, bitmap fonts are dead. (by the way, coders are not able to use bitmap font correctly)
- i remember a time when demoscene was the elite of computer generated art (code, music or gfxs). Demoscene art was better than Games companies and lots of computer addicts dreamed to be a demomaker! But now games companies use lots of money and people to create very good stuff, we can't beat them.
And too much people have a computer at home and there is now a very large 2d gfxs scene, created on computer, 'CGgraphics' that's the actual name. Take a look to www.gfxartist.com and you'll see that demoscene graphicians are Not the elite of 2d bitmap now.
It's better to draw for 'world gfx scene', than for a small old demoscene wich is not able to recognize the artwork as his real value.
That's why i stopped 2d gfxs for demoscene.
- 2d pixeled gfxs are interesting to make only with poor resolution like 64x64px (320x256 max size), in 800x600 there absolutly no interest to create a picture as demoscene style.
- using photoshop to modify a photo is easy even for the newbies, what is the interest to use about 100 hours to create an original picture when a newbie apply 2 filters on a photo in 3 hours and win the gfxcompo.
- 2d pixeled gfxs are interesting to create in few colors, but today too much people use 24bits and flash vecto technology, so bitmap pixel by pixel is not interesting to do for pc demos.
- too much newbies are not able to make the difference between a photo and a drawing, they only vote for nude females, so there is not interest to create a 2d picture for a demoparty gfx compo, the audience is not interesting.
- there is a lot of TTF fonts, and create an original bitmap font takes too much and unuseful time, bitmap fonts are dead. (by the way, coders are not able to use bitmap font correctly)
- i remember a time when demoscene was the elite of computer generated art (code, music or gfxs). Demoscene art was better than Games companies and lots of computer addicts dreamed to be a demomaker! But now games companies use lots of money and people to create very good stuff, we can't beat them.
And too much people have a computer at home and there is now a very large 2d gfxs scene, created on computer, 'CGgraphics' that's the actual name. Take a look to www.gfxartist.com and you'll see that demoscene graphicians are Not the elite of 2d bitmap now.
It's better to draw for 'world gfx scene', than for a small old demoscene wich is not able to recognize the artwork as his real value.
That's why i stopped 2d gfxs for demoscene.
all i know is that i've been pixelling for ~20 years and have no plans to stop any time soon coz i have loads of fun doing it... the rest is completely irrelevant imho, if ppl don't feel like using "my type" of gfx in their demos that's fine, we can proceed to drinking a beer round the campfire inmediatly... i won't complain surely :-)
"GET UP, STAND UP, STAND FOR YOUR RIGHT, GET UP, STAND UP, DONT GIVE UP WITHOUT FIGHT"
"Do not go gently into night, rage, rage, against dying of the light"
Let the torch burn. I'll keep drawing until i die. Even no-one in world likes what i do.
"Do not go gently into night, rage, rage, against dying of the light"
Let the torch burn. I'll keep drawing until i die. Even no-one in world likes what i do.
unssi kertoo vitsin... =)
no, seriously, actually i like many of your stuff.
no, seriously, actually i like many of your stuff.
Good 2d graphics > any 3d, just like good 2d effects > 3d flybystuff.
If it's up to me and I have people working with me, my productions will be featuring 2d graphics now and in the future.
If it's up to me and I have people working with me, my productions will be featuring 2d graphics now and in the future.
Personally, I think the lack of 2d graphics and design just sucks. All these planets and layers are just killing it all for me.
respect to the peeps who keep it back to the roots and not just showing technology demos for the hardware manufacturers. Its just plain old abuse.
respect to the peeps who keep it back to the roots and not just showing technology demos for the hardware manufacturers. Its just plain old abuse.
I don't except anyone like me, after how i have behaved. Anyway, respect WOPAH, jibifaak, kenet, alien, electric, visualice, reko,amv and just about anyone who still does (original) gfx.
devistator, you know i like you, but the roots are for wussies.
: roots should not be discarded imoA good mix of "roots" and hightech is a good compromise.
Those pseudo-technological demos (that do not rival nVidia or ATI's tech demos in the end) using shaders picked up here and there on the web and just implementing Siggraph papers without the slightest ounce of originality or fun are just plain BORING.
On the other hand, all those wannabe pseudo-oldskool prods are totally boring and unoriginal as well :)
xenusion: Yes. It's amazing how modelling and texturing have completely vanished from the PC demo scene in recent years. Especially considering how huge an impact a demo can have if the makers put just the slightest bit of effort into creating non-psychedelic scenes.
zone: it's the same thing that drives musicians away from the scene. Why make mainstream music for the scene when you could make mainstream music for the mainstream?
It's all because of home computers becoming common, and because of the internet becoming a forum for creative arts. Or rather, it's because the demo scene failed to retain those unique qualities that could've saved it.
Yay, I'm all gloomy! I'll go draw some 2D graphics now. In photoshop, yes, with a tablet, yes, in titanic resolution, yes, but I'll scale them down when I'm done. :P
zone: it's the same thing that drives musicians away from the scene. Why make mainstream music for the scene when you could make mainstream music for the mainstream?
It's all because of home computers becoming common, and because of the internet becoming a forum for creative arts. Or rather, it's because the demo scene failed to retain those unique qualities that could've saved it.
Yay, I'm all gloomy! I'll go draw some 2D graphics now. In photoshop, yes, with a tablet, yes, in titanic resolution, yes, but I'll scale them down when I'm done. :P
