pouët.net

Yeah, oddly enough we arrived to similar conclusion.

lmao

tom's bedroom is full with these:

I'm not even mad at people using AI or anything, people can do whatever the fuck they want and I'm happy for them if it works. I'm mad at people pushing AI in the demoscene for things that don't need AI.

Also, I love posting man, I just fucking love posting, I will never log off!

Yeah i mean a lot of the ”lets AI” guys really don’t seem to have any clue why many of us oppose it.

I get the feeling many of them see it the same as ”opposing photoshop” or ”amiga is better than atari” or some other similar ”i do not like this software/platform/hardware manufacturer A because i think software/platform/hardware manufacturer B is better in my opinion” thing.

But it really is not at all about that. I mean it’s not even about the tech itself as a technology. It’s about the cost to society at large.

The more hardcore AI boosters will jump through all the hoops in the playbook (yes, it’s a playbook. I have not seen a single pro-AI opinion here that i haven’t already seen verbatim on social media from random dudes dozens/hundreds of times) to try to make the debate be about anything else than that social cost, which is extremely telling.

But i mean you all knew this already? Right? It’s not like this hasn’t been brought up before a bazillion times…

I for one am not even opposing AI in a lot of cases - AI tools made my work life much easier.
But it really doesn't make a lot of sense in arts.

By definition, art is human expression. If you let AI generate your art, it's like you pay a painter to draw the fucking rest of the owl for you. Sure, at the end there is a painting - but you wouldn't sell this painting as your painting, would you?

PS: On the social aspect - one can even use AI for societal good, eg. by liberating software (office, photoshop clones), fixing bugs, or helping people with buerocracy. Sadly it's more often used for making greedy people even more rich and/or for making lives more miserable, rather than better.

Unfortunately the overall cost here outweigh the positives too. (Also those photoshop and office clones that have been all the rage for, checks notes, about two weeks don’t really work if you try them for anything than the most basic of tasks)

Not mentioning again the real ecological problems, the cost of it, the massive debt (that, if it crashes MIND YOU ALL, we'll all pay for… remember 2008? what a fun time).

I also hate the hypocrisy around AI.

So many of the companies are pushing for an agenda and are hiding behind cool-bad-idea ideas such as UBI and I'd not trust a single of these american people to give us anything good (I mean, we're taking their ideas at face value? from the country that cannot even agree on basic things such as healthcare? really?). We cannot even tax the rich correctly, you think they're going to help us?
It's like a lot of the useful idiots think they're going to be saved by their chads, allow me to have some doubts here.

The premise "doing things is hard" is actually the stupidest argument I've ever heard.
OF COURSE IT IS, that's the idea of doing things. Doing original thing is even harder but this is not where we're going with this because it regurgitate the same. Creativity has never needed to be "fixed" ffs. The chatbox is the last resort of an industry that's been trying to make ROI happen…

I am not even against AI but what is being called AI at the moment. An algorithm that people can use, trained to do a specific thing -> can be good. Applied machine learning to detect cancers, good. LLMs? Neat trick that leads to so many wrongs.

I'll even venture that some usage of LLMs may be useful, making a request that can be contextualised and then go fetch some methods that lead to other type of algorithm, micro services, what not, is not that far-fetched truly. But if it means the entirety of humanity has to suffer the wrath of "genAI" in order for it to finally pay (ROI), no, go drive yourself to the nearest body of water please.

ps: and about the decompilation project, how funny they are, how useful it is… this is also causing pain, lots of pain, in some other industries. Industries, products, that have spend decades of craft, knowledge, experience. If you don't value this, why should we value your little funny project. Fuck your fun because you're messing up with forces just because you "like having your fun", selfish pricks (that's me stepping my foot again)

”See, even the supposed AI haters secretly like it!! What a bunch of hypocrites they are!!!”

The hypocrisy is to secretly use AI, but openly be against AI to fit in.

state your accusation.

In general. I don't know why you think it's about you.

The hypocrisy is to secretly wear clothes, but openly be against disposable fashion to fit in.

Bumped into a cool song by Locked Club that inspired me to play with Argon.

3 hours later...

LOL FUCK AI by XPLSV
https://xplsv.github.io/lolfuckai/

The hyprocrisy is to secretely live in a western society, but openly be against slavery, colonialism and exploitation of humans and nature.

hey, you vibecoded a demo about it! this is so much better than the 100th edgy pseudo-intellectual troll post by tomkh

Dude, just stop for a minute being the edgy kid with a snark, you either "assume" or you know some names. If you assume, just say you "assume", which mean you don't know but you do believe something.

If you are sure, please, go ahead.

Now for the bit with the "to fit in", this is almost similar to the comment made by a certain asshole I won't name here who said that some people just want to hate AI to fit in the SJW line… the wokeratis and all that shenanigans, these people, the antifa; I have nothing to say about this, this is basically assuming most people are hypocrites which is a perfect "I've seen the Joker movie and now look at me I'm a cynical" kind of line, as pathetic as the ones who act as SJW online to reap klout. Same energy.

The whole edginess is annoying, the "no you" the "why do you think about you" what makes you think I think about me, this is being absolutely childish. Do you have anything to say at all that's not edgy?

kaneel: ah, so you are butthurt, because I don't have respect to you as I have to 4gentE and uncle-x. Yes, I don't have much respect to you. You are nothing but a bar brawler with a big mouth.

Q.E.D

The demoscene for mer personally have always been about having fun doing productions for myself. That you got to see some of it just happened and it's a pretty fun thing after all. But the fun I have making them is what counts. Again, for me. If I'm having fun, that's ok by me. If you are having fun, that's ok by me. How you are having fun? I could not care less.

Is it though

Kinda funny how this thread had, for a moment, some actual insight about AI, until the AI boosters showed up again.

tell me, you had this one ready a hour ago, right?

The bar brawler, it's petty namecalling, it's part of the joust.
Not the first time you mention, I think, you don't like violent people though, it's telling :)

This part of the sentence I can agree.

But please do not mix me with the second part though.

As I explained, calmly, before I was dragged into the usual brawl with usual suspects (kaneel and uncle-x), I'm not promoting anything here and never was.

Those two AI prods I did this year are tongue-in-cheek provocations and I don't plan to create any new AI-assisted prods myself. And I do enjoy improving my personal coding and artistic skills using my own brain power. That's why I like demoscene so much, and even some of your brawlers here.

That's all I wanted to clarify. Peace!

Nah you’re exactly the reason why the second part was written. Mrdoob helped a bit too.