pouët.net

Is there some kind of Godwin's law, but for AI?

Yes, there is an informal equivalent often called an "AI variant of Godwin's Law" (or sometimes just "Godwin's Law for AI").

Godwin's Law states that as any online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison to Hitler or Nazis approaches 1 (essentially, it becomes inevitable in heated or prolonged arguments).

The AI version flips this to doomsday tropes: As an online discussion about AI grows longer, the probability of a post from 4gentE, bifat and/or Krill approaches 1.

So maybe we should slide back from AI to cracktros.

My dear Dutch Troll Force BOFH: I'm actually annoyed by derailing threads with pretty much unrelated metatalk about AI. Most annoying are the anti-AI crusaders, but mostly because the evangelists are comparatively rare and generally seem to behave better.

What gaspose said.

(Wish i had something relevant to contribute to this thread now. :D)

Hey Havoc, can you please delete my account? Thank you :)

Don;t use google,. dont u se firefox (use waterfox)

This one made me chuckle.

Yeah same lol, I wonder why they are rare!!!!

No but seriously, with a bit of imagination (I know it's hard for some), we can figure some situation that may or may not have happened in history where some evangelists of some doctrine were also very fine gentlemen who behaved well.

<nazi bar problem>

https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=54410

Demoscene is so new.

Hmm, so it's the 50s birthday of demoscene in 2028?

that depends on how you define the start of the demoscene, which is an entire discussion on it's own that's been had who-knows-how-many times :D

is anything compter graphics demoscene? does it need to be for fun (rather than research)? does it have to somehow have descended from the cracking scene? at which point did "people sharing software" turn into a "cracking scene"? etc. :D

Some are legit questions, this one is not imho.

No.
I'd say demoscene is a specific subculture, separate from other computer related hobbies. What defines the demoscene and what makes it different from other computer hobbies imho is: (A) a specific aesthetic, (B) the parties. Both of these are rooted in cracker scene. Of this I'm almost 100% positive, but that is heavily contested and is a subject of a bigger discussion. (about which I actually made a demo once)

This has been discussed endlessly as lynn said, but even if the 1978 Apple ][ demonstration, is, technically, a "demo", the "scene", as a subculture that broke off the cracking/pirate scene, is closer to 40 years old I'd say.

Large parts of the early demo scene existed completely detached from cracker scene or even parties (which the early cracker scene did not have either).

But were there releases from this early demoscene?

Define "releases" :) Graphics- and Music Demos? sure thing. The early compunet stuff, for example (later there was indeed overlap with cracking scene)

@Groepaz
I only learned of Compunet way way later. You told me that you had access to it back then. And thank you for that historical info. Meanwhile, the rest of us depended on snailmail disks with cracks that had intros and an odd demo here and there. So, no, I don’t think Compunet was distribution channel for the scene for most of us. Mailswapping of cracks was. I personally don’t think that whatever independently existed on Compunet was “the scene”. Only when that got in touch with crackerscene could it become “the scene” as we know it. You know, graffiti style logos, groups, clans, bashing, showing off, flamewarsnall of that. The scene. But, hey, let’s not go there (again). It’s not the topic here.

Its just your narrow view on what "scene" is. Of course it was "scene" on compunet (and elsewhere). "graffiti style logos, groups, clans" didn't exist in the early scene either, it was a handfull individuals who mostly knew each other, in a friendly way too. What you describe only emerged years later.

I agree about what I view as “scene” being narrow. What I described indeed emerged a few years later. And it’s called “the scene”. But then, what makes you set the Compunet demos as the start? What about US Apple II crackerscene, what about the whole real oldschool hackerscene before it? Yes, I go for a narrow definition, but if we go expanding, where is the border to be set? I’m describing how most of 50 year olds of today I talked to about this got in contact with the emerging scene. Me included. Through crack intros in front of C64 games. Plus, this happens to coincide with every research paper written on the subject. I understand that you were/are more informed, earlier adopter than most, but I don’t think that one personal experience against hundreds of others warrants a rewrite of what became written history. Furtherly, what “scene” means in peoples’ minds today? It means parties, it means groups, it means greetings and “f*ckings”.
So, if I get it right, you claim that a handful of friends exchanging demos on Compunet with no worldwide distribution channel or ambition to show their stuff to a wider audience was “the scene”? Hmm, OK. How come my (and John’s and Jill’s and Sandy’s) local computer club where we were showing off our BASIC skills doesn’t count then? See, I don’t think there is a scene without the wide and sturdy distribution channel. Meaning crackswapper network. Why are we repeating the same stuff all over again? For folks who weren’t reading the first time around? Sorry everybody.

Nothing, i didnt. It existed before that.

Where and when exactly (or approximately) would you set the beginning of “the scene”? Is there some defining moment, some event?