What you expect and want to see in a modern 2025 and forward high end demo?
category: general [glöplog]
Superplek: more love <3 less hate
And yesh, someone go and make a demo about it :)
And yesh, someone go and make a demo about it :)
Also everyone here: I am amazed how my short question has spawned so many great answers. Keep em coming, I am confident there are many creative demo creators among us reading and listening.
HDR and wide color.
Still out for grabs and easy to do if you've got the equipment (code wise that is, asset pipelines are a completely different story). I know the latter part pretty much excludes all compos at parties unless someone finds a stash of brand new giant LED screens for free, but outside compos or as a bonus for viewing at home? I think it's time. :)
Still out for grabs and easy to do if you've got the equipment (code wise that is, asset pipelines are a completely different story). I know the latter part pretty much excludes all compos at parties unless someone finds a stash of brand new giant LED screens for free, but outside compos or as a bonus for viewing at home? I think it's time. :)
Hey come on people, I'm a heel as they call it, not a bad guy :-)
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Quote:self-expression
Philosophical, but I generally disagree with the notion that art is supposed to be the expression of yourself. It implies an egoistic approach and that people should gaze at some aspect of you and be amazed. In my opinion, art should express something greater than you, and the artist is merely a humble vehicle of expression. This should also apply to demoscene art.
Uhm, I'm sorry but even though I respect your views, to me individuality is key and that means a degree of freedom of expression. Within certain boundaries, of course.
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I respect your views
There goes your scene career :D
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to me individuality is key and that means a degree of freedom of expression
Individuality is a whole different matter - my point may not have been well articulated. Of course individuality matters: as I wrote, you're the vehicle of whatever you're creating. You are the filter the universe uses to manifest itself. It's a honor and a responsibility to be chosen for this role, that is, to have talent and means to fulfill this duty.
If you "express yourself", you could as well start an Onlyfans and charge $5 for a glance at your butthole. If the only thing you got to show is yourself, then you have nothing to show. Art is something greater and higher, descending to the material world through you, to enlighten and elevate others. It's a service which may bring you fame and reward, but that shouldn't be the motivator. You will get it anyway, if you're doing a good service.
And yes, HDR and wide color are good ideas too.
I've wondered a bunch why we make art. It's very primal - animals do make art, and mainly for three reasons - attracting mates, communication or self-love (the self-love is most likely responding with pleasure to developing skills related to evolution).
Humans are not too far off of animals. I'd classify our art on a spectrum of hedonism, communication with yourself and communication with the audience.
Communication with the audience would be e.g. the planet trilogy by CNS, waillee, Summis Vita In Armento, system of a down, cinematic/story-based stuff.
Communication with yourself would be Sade, Nine Inch Nails, Still - There, legend of sisyphus, epitapth for the dead, those fairlight demos for c64.
And hedonism would be art for the sake of beauty, be it darkness, abstract stuff, gorgeous paintings, colours, shapes etc.
It is a _spectrum_ - you can't fully be one of these. All of of them can be absolutely sick, but demos tend to lean into beauty for the sake of beauty.
This is fine, and some of my favourite artworks lean into it. Hell, *most* of the music and visual art I consume is comforting and escapist. A lot of my favourite demos are like that as well.
This tendency towards self-indulgence partly stems from the "craft" aspect of demomaking, which involves tooling, sequencing, maths, clever algorithms to squeeze everything you can out of the PC.
I love it, love doing it and respect it a ton, but I think demos should communicate more after finally getting the engine up and running and the shaders shining.
So, i want less escapism.
PS: All the "why do we make art" stuff was my personal observation/theory/view.
Humans are not too far off of animals. I'd classify our art on a spectrum of hedonism, communication with yourself and communication with the audience.
Communication with the audience would be e.g. the planet trilogy by CNS, waillee, Summis Vita In Armento, system of a down, cinematic/story-based stuff.
Communication with yourself would be Sade, Nine Inch Nails, Still - There, legend of sisyphus, epitapth for the dead, those fairlight demos for c64.
And hedonism would be art for the sake of beauty, be it darkness, abstract stuff, gorgeous paintings, colours, shapes etc.
It is a _spectrum_ - you can't fully be one of these. All of of them can be absolutely sick, but demos tend to lean into beauty for the sake of beauty.
This is fine, and some of my favourite artworks lean into it. Hell, *most* of the music and visual art I consume is comforting and escapist. A lot of my favourite demos are like that as well.
This tendency towards self-indulgence partly stems from the "craft" aspect of demomaking, which involves tooling, sequencing, maths, clever algorithms to squeeze everything you can out of the PC.
I love it, love doing it and respect it a ton, but I think demos should communicate more after finally getting the engine up and running and the shaders shining.
So, i want less escapism.
PS: All the "why do we make art" stuff was my personal observation/theory/view.
Art is a parasite that hijacked mating and survival instincts by short-circuiting them to immediate automatic and self-sufficient dopamine release.
I came to make demos to impress girls and get mates, but ended up with a profession instead.
From demos I want the same thing BoyC wants. Plus more custom engines, and more and weirder and obscure experimental rendering techniques and ideas. Moar impossible stuff plox, less unrealnity slop with generic PBR model that you haven't even coded yourself onegai.
And I don't even care that much about AI crap. If you can do crazy impossible stuff with it in demo context, go for it.
I came to make demos to impress girls and get mates, but ended up with a profession instead.
From demos I want the same thing BoyC wants. Plus more custom engines, and more and weirder and obscure experimental rendering techniques and ideas. Moar impossible stuff plox, less unrealnity slop with generic PBR model that you haven't even coded yourself onegai.
And I don't even care that much about AI crap. If you can do crazy impossible stuff with it in demo context, go for it.
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Quote:I respect your views
There goes your scene career :D
Quote:to me individuality is key and that means a degree of freedom of expression
Individuality is a whole different matter - my point may not have been well articulated. Of course individuality matters: as I wrote, you're the vehicle of whatever you're creating. You are the filter the universe uses to manifest itself. It's a honor and a responsibility to be chosen for this role, that is, to have talent and means to fulfill this duty.
If you "express yourself", you could as well start an Onlyfans and charge $5 for a glance at your butthole. If the only thing you got to show is yourself, then you have nothing to show. Art is something greater and higher, descending to the material world through you, to enlighten and elevate others. It's a service which may bring you fame and reward, but that shouldn't be the motivator. You will get it anyway, if you're doing a good service.
And yes, HDR and wide color are good ideas too.
Quote:
Quote:I respect your views
There goes your scene career :D
Quote:to me individuality is key and that means a degree of freedom of expression
Individuality is a whole different matter - my point may not have been well articulated. Of course individuality matters: as I wrote, you're the vehicle of whatever you're creating. You are the filter the universe uses to manifest itself. It's a honor and a responsibility to be chosen for this role, that is, to have talent and means to fulfill this duty.
If you "express yourself", you could as well start an Onlyfans and charge $5 for a glance at your butthole. If the only thing you got to show is yourself, then you have nothing to show. Art is something greater and higher, descending to the material world through you, to enlighten and elevate others. It's a service which may bring you fame and reward, but that shouldn't be the motivator. You will get it anyway, if you're doing a good service.
And yes, HDR and wide color are good ideas too.
*si
Quote:
Quote:I respect your views
There goes your scene career :D
Quote:to me individuality is key and that means a degree of freedom of expression
Individuality is a whole different matter - my point may not have been well articulated. Of course individuality matters: as I wrote, you're the vehicle of whatever you're creating. You are the filter the universe uses to manifest itself. It's a honor and a responsibility to be chosen for this role, that is, to have talent and means to fulfill this duty.
If you "express yourself", you could as well start an Onlyfans and charge $5 for a glance at your butthole. If the only thing you got to show is yourself, then you have nothing to show. Art is something greater and higher, descending to the material world through you, to enlighten and elevate others. It's a service which may bring you fame and reward, but that shouldn't be the motivator. You will get it anyway, if you're doing a good service.
And yes, HDR and wide color are good ideas too.
You made it very rude and personal son. And maybe that is not the thing you want to do with me. I've moved and fucked over inappropriate MWI fucks at parties more than once. Wanna be the next?
As I'm getting older I feel like I should get the technical ideas in my "todo.txt" out into the wild before I get a stroke or get demented or something like that. Even if these are not groundbreaking ideas.
And getting it out there in demo form
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I've moved and fucked over inappropriate MWI fucks at parties more than once. Wanna be the next?
Stop it daddy, you're triggering to my submissive side.
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I came to make demos to impress girls and get mates, but ended up with a profession instead.
Men composed the best love songs, wrote the best sonets and dramas. Dante wrote the entire Divine Comedy just to impress Beatrice. Meanwhile, girls would rather be mauled by a wild bear than talk to a man. Make your demos accordingly.
On a more serious note...
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I've wondered a bunch why we make art.
That's one of the most profound questions of humankind, actually. If approached from a very materialistic viewpoint, it is likely an evolutionary result of forming groups and society. Art is a way to communicate ideas and concepts in an abstract way, by symbolism. A good piece of art carries meaning that is immediately recognized by the target audience, and either reinforces an already existing concept, or creates a connection between previously existing ones, adding to the common knowledge and understanding of the group, which is basically the definition of culture. The way I see it, the quality of art is always defined by three factors:
1. Clarity - if the receiver can interpret it in the way it's meant to be. It doesn't mean it should be easy to consume: it's often quite the opposite. It's the lack of ambiguity. If ambiguity is present, then the purpose of the artifact is exactly to remind to this ambiguity that exists in real life (ie. the duality of man).
2. Workmanship - how well the artifact was created. This also doesn't translate to the original meaning of the term, as in how you would interpret workmanship in the context of some everyday utility like a pair of shoes or a car. It means the artifact must represent the quality to match its desired content.
3. Content - the more there is, the more valuable the artifact is. Some artifacts are rich of content, and could be analyzed throughout a lifetime. Some are shallow and empty.
I gotta go. Hegel is at the door, and I think he is trying to deliver a cease and desist letter.