Where is the demoscene ? Where do we make friends ?
category: general [glöplog]
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Quote:Its more akin to 4chan or Reddit than the nexus of the demoscene.
why do you think that is
Oh maybe because someone at that point decided to be a fucking moron. :)
I will happily admit it.
What about here?
And would you kindly make a demo about it?
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Why not pouet though ? It's not the first time I read this..It's like we love to hate pouet..
Pouet is fairly civilized actually. Probably the only thing you have to realize is all posts are permanent and there is no edit button (not even for a short time to fix your typos), so many things just go through unfiltered, especially if people have their ups and downs. As a result there is humiliating material on almost anyone. I wouldn't be surprised if certain admins enjoy it a bit too much, like they are holding "file" on everyone here, but whatever ticks them.
It's hard to open up when there's a lingering fear that every word might get misunderstood, remembered forever, or even used against us — whether by people or by algorithms.
Friendship requires trust, and that, in turn, demands a space where we’re allowed to make mistakes, change our minds, and be authentic without the fear of permanent judgment.
It takes guts to allow closeness and stay loyal. Especially here.
Friendship requires trust, and that, in turn, demands a space where we’re allowed to make mistakes, change our minds, and be authentic without the fear of permanent judgment.
It takes guts to allow closeness and stay loyal. Especially here.
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It's hard to open up when there's a lingering fear that every word might get misunderstood, remembered forever, or even used against us — whether by people or by algorithms.
Spoken like a true zoomer. Indeed, this is a very postmodern problem these days. Gone are the times when you could just be yourself and not outrage some judgmental pricks. Even in such an once tight-knit community such as the demoscene. If anything ever kills the demoscene, it's going to be this.
Just start with a tiny production, release it maybe remote. Try to participate.
When it comes to find "local" sceners to meet on a regular base, you need "luck" .If you located for instance in Berlin or Duesseldorf, there you should find people active in the demoscene, even meat from time to time each other.
For us here mainly located in Germany / NRW / Duesseldorf, Koeln, Wuppertal... We meet multiple times a year on one of our Chill n Grill. @kapsel : Try to figure out if there are people in your closer range, try to meet them or maybe you start with smaller productions on your own. Sadly there are not so many active sceners anymore out here and you might only be in contact with them over internet because there might nobody in your near.
One advice : being less philosophy and typing, and more acting.
When it comes to find "local" sceners to meet on a regular base, you need "luck" .If you located for instance in Berlin or Duesseldorf, there you should find people active in the demoscene, even meat from time to time each other.
For us here mainly located in Germany / NRW / Duesseldorf, Koeln, Wuppertal... We meet multiple times a year on one of our Chill n Grill. @kapsel : Try to figure out if there are people in your closer range, try to meet them or maybe you start with smaller productions on your own. Sadly there are not so many active sceners anymore out here and you might only be in contact with them over internet because there might nobody in your near.
One advice : being less philosophy and typing, and more acting.
Did i wrote meat... >) i meant meet :]
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…this is a very postmodern problem these days…
Errr wha?
tomcatmwi — I understand the longing for simpler times. Maybe it is harder nowadays to speak freely — and maybe that's exactly why it's worth building spaces where we can be ourselves without fear of ridicule or judgment. The demoscene will endure if we care not only about productions, but also about the relationships behind them.
AMItac_TSA — thanks for the solid input — you're right, action is essential. But for some of us, reflection is also part of the creative process. When I write about trust or loneliness on the scene, I'm creating too — building bridges that might later turn into productions.
AMItac_TSA — thanks for the solid input — you're right, action is essential. But for some of us, reflection is also part of the creative process. When I write about trust or loneliness on the scene, I'm creating too — building bridges that might later turn into productions.
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Maybe it is harder nowadays to speak freely — and maybe that's exactly why it's worth building spaces where we can be ourselves without fear of ridicule or judgment.
Have you ever tried? First, the ones who want to control everything will call you a Nazi. Then real Nazis notice this and flock to your space, thinking you're one of them. You kick them out, and now you're the enemy of both camps. Sooner or later someone with real authority will try to shut you down, because you're "causing too much drama".
That sounds like an exceptionally difficult situation. Have you experienced something like that yourself? If so, I’d be interested to hear what happened. I believe stories like that can help us understand why building open spaces can be so difficult.
Yes, I’ve tried — more than once. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it ended in disappointment or a quiet withdrawal. But every attempt taught us something. And even knowing the world can be brutally polarized and good intentions are misinterpreted, we should still believe it’s worth trying. Even if it means missteps, misunderstandings, and sometimes difficult conversations. Because if we don’t create that kind of space that's truly ours — complex, imperfect, yet sincere — then who will?
Yes, I’ve tried — more than once. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it ended in disappointment or a quiet withdrawal. But every attempt taught us something. And even knowing the world can be brutally polarized and good intentions are misinterpreted, we should still believe it’s worth trying. Even if it means missteps, misunderstandings, and sometimes difficult conversations. Because if we don’t create that kind of space that's truly ours — complex, imperfect, yet sincere — then who will?
On the other hand this is not f.my life website or alt.politics forum. This is a demoscene forum. So as long political issue is not demoscene related, it's an off-topic. I do agree however, that people should not be call out or bullied for their political views (as long as they don't bring it up themselves).
@kapsel
I built online spaces myself, and I saw others going down this way. The idiots with demands will appear as soon as your community is getting ahead. Ban this, correct that, how dare you that. If you submit, they will turn your space into their space, and everybody else leaves. If you don't submit, they will go to other forums to whine about your "fascist site". In no time, your forum, blog or whatever will be "controversial", then outright "hateful", "problematic" and whatnot. Meanwhile, like I said, the real far-rightists will discover it and try to make it theirs. Censor them, and they will do the same as the wokes, calling you a Zionist agent and similar things. It doesn't matter what is your space about: it can be a cooking or knitting club, and these things will still happen.
@tomkh
That's very right, sir. This isn't a political community, and it should never be. The point is, the internet changed how average people communicate. Turns out they don't - they only want to control others and receive validation. Fortunately now we have AI to automate it all, and soon it's all going to be just machines annoying machines.
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That sounds like an exceptionally difficult situation. Have you experienced something like that yourself?
I built online spaces myself, and I saw others going down this way. The idiots with demands will appear as soon as your community is getting ahead. Ban this, correct that, how dare you that. If you submit, they will turn your space into their space, and everybody else leaves. If you don't submit, they will go to other forums to whine about your "fascist site". In no time, your forum, blog or whatever will be "controversial", then outright "hateful", "problematic" and whatnot. Meanwhile, like I said, the real far-rightists will discover it and try to make it theirs. Censor them, and they will do the same as the wokes, calling you a Zionist agent and similar things. It doesn't matter what is your space about: it can be a cooking or knitting club, and these things will still happen.
@tomkh
That's very right, sir. This isn't a political community, and it should never be. The point is, the internet changed how average people communicate. Turns out they don't - they only want to control others and receive validation. Fortunately now we have AI to automate it all, and soon it's all going to be just machines annoying machines.
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The point is, the internet changed how average people communicate. Turns out they don't - they only want to control others and receive validation.
That's a fair observation, but still, I believe on pouet people would be genuinely interested more in discussing wide aspects of demo making. As I recall we had plenty of quite fruitful technical discussion here, or artistic style in demos etc...Of course as the internet goes, it's not always a cute, friendly discussion, because we are at large (with small exceptions) bunch of testosterone infused dudes who likes to show off who is the strongest in the pack. And I don't think it should change. It's also how the nature works.
So personally, I would hope this won't become a place like X or blue sky, where everything has left-wing or right-wing undertones, people get triggered, cancelled or whatever, extremist chime in etc... It would be nice to avoid that at all cost. FWIW I couldn't care less what are your political views. And as long as we discuss topics of interest to this group, I think everyone should be treated respectfully.
tomcatmwi — That’s a hard truth. What you described is a bitter and sadly — but unfortunately often accurate — analysis of what can happen to open spaces on the internet. Your words reflect the experience of someone who genuinely tried to build something, not just watched from the sidelines. Your story shows how difficult it is to maintain a balance between free expression and shielding a community from toxicity — especially when people with strong expectations or extreme voices show up.
I agree that good intentions — creating an inclusive and open space — can be used against the creators who care the most.
However, your observations don’t necessarily mean that attempts to build such spaces are doomed to fail. It’s precisely through difficult stories like this that we can better understand what needs safeguarding, which boundaries to define, and how to respond to destructive behavior patterns — before they turn our scene into just another internet trench.
Maybe it's naive, maybe stubborn — but I think it does matter how we show up in these spaces. If we lean into generosity over suspicion, curiosity over labels, and if we treat each other not as enemies, but as folks who showed up to care about the same odd corner of culture — then there’s still something worth fighting for. Even if it’s messy. Especially because it’s messy.
Because otherwise, what are we really left with?
I agree that good intentions — creating an inclusive and open space — can be used against the creators who care the most.
However, your observations don’t necessarily mean that attempts to build such spaces are doomed to fail. It’s precisely through difficult stories like this that we can better understand what needs safeguarding, which boundaries to define, and how to respond to destructive behavior patterns — before they turn our scene into just another internet trench.
Maybe it's naive, maybe stubborn — but I think it does matter how we show up in these spaces. If we lean into generosity over suspicion, curiosity over labels, and if we treat each other not as enemies, but as folks who showed up to care about the same odd corner of culture — then there’s still something worth fighting for. Even if it’s messy. Especially because it’s messy.
Because otherwise, what are we really left with?
tomkh — You're right, Pouët is a scene, not a soapbox. But every community needs not only topics, but also an atmosphere that makes people want to be there. Caring about the tone of conversation and mutual respect isn’t politics — it’s the culture of co-creation. And if we don't want the scene to turn into yet another minefield on the internet, it’s worth mentioning this from time to time. Without ideology. Out of care.
You've put us in an interesting spot: how can we talk about values, openness, and community — all of which are essential to any shared space — without touching on topics considered “off-topic”?
You've put us in an interesting spot: how can we talk about values, openness, and community — all of which are essential to any shared space — without touching on topics considered “off-topic”?
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we are at large (with small exceptions) bunch of testosterone infused dudes who likes to show off who is the strongest in the pack. And I don't think it should change.
tomkh — I understand that the bit about a “testosterone-fueled pack” was probably meant as a half-joke and may even reflect how the scene often feels. But that’s exactly why it’s worth pausing for a second and asking: is that really just “nature”? Or is it a cultural pattern we’ve gotten used to — one that quietly shapes who fits in and who doesn’t?
What might seem like harmless attitude or style to some can be a real barrier for others. Not everyone wants to — or can — fight for dominance in a space that’s supposed to be creative, not hierarchical. And this is where the similarity to homophobia comes in: it’s not about open insults or hostility, but about the atmosphere — the tone, the posture, the default expectation — that signals to certain people: “You don’t belong here.”
It works like a quiet filter. No one has to say anything nasty — yet it’s enough to make someone feel out of place. And the result is a community that slowly closes in on itself, welcoming only one kind of personality: bold, loud, self-assured, and fitting into a narrow vision of masculinity. Everyone else either keeps quiet, walks away, or never joins at all.
And that’s a loss. Because the scene — if it’s going to stay alive and evolve — needs more than one type of person. It needs different sensitivities, identities, ways of thinking and expressing. Not to “sanitize” it — but to keep it real, human, and creatively unpredictable.
That’s why I compared it to the mechanisms behind homophobia. Not to accuse anyone, but to highlight how certain habits can quietly push people away — even without bad intentions. And if we genuinely care about this scene, then that’s something worth thinking about.
IMHO it was easier to stay in touch when we had:
icq
irc
ms messenger etc.
discord / twitter / masto (or god forbid fb messenger) is all good but terribly diluted when compared to the above for some odd reason: perhaps it was something to do with these old things running off our taskbar/s at all times or us paying more attention pre to smart phone distractions... :) anyway nothing beats having a realtime natter imho.
icq
irc
ms messenger etc.
discord / twitter / masto (or god forbid fb messenger) is all good but terribly diluted when compared to the above for some odd reason: perhaps it was something to do with these old things running off our taskbar/s at all times or us paying more attention pre to smart phone distractions... :) anyway nothing beats having a realtime natter imho.
I joined the scene in 2004 and back then I was told stories about how in the nineties, the scene were a
For at least 20 years it had not been like that (exceptions aside) and as much as I appreciate old schoolers coming back after a long time of absence, I'd also like the scene not to change back to that adolescent macho style from those not so golden old days.
Back to the topic: You don't need to be productive at all to make friends in the scene. Just be interested, reliable and communicate regularly. Most groups have members who never contributed to any production, but they are just good people, and they share some good memories. That's how they became friends.
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bunch of testosterone infused dudes
For at least 20 years it had not been like that (exceptions aside) and as much as I appreciate old schoolers coming back after a long time of absence, I'd also like the scene not to change back to that adolescent macho style from those not so golden old days.
Back to the topic: You don't need to be productive at all to make friends in the scene. Just be interested, reliable and communicate regularly. Most groups have members who never contributed to any production, but they are just good people, and they share some good memories. That's how they became friends.
kapsel: the abuse of em dash (—) is *very* characteristic trait of ChatGPT,
so you either 1) just use ChatGPT to make your responses more elaborate, fix your english grammar etc...
or 2) we are just talking to ChatGPT here.
I can only hope it's the former ;)
But I will reply anyway...
Not really. I was commenting on pouet in general, not this specific thread. In this thread, talking about atmosphere and inclusion principles on pouet is quite on-topic.
so you either 1) just use ChatGPT to make your responses more elaborate, fix your english grammar etc...
or 2) we are just talking to ChatGPT here.
I can only hope it's the former ;)
But I will reply anyway...
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You've put us in an interesting spot: how can we talk about values, openness, and community — all of which are essential to any shared space — without touching on topics considered “off-topic”?
Not really. I was commenting on pouet in general, not this specific thread. In this thread, talking about atmosphere and inclusion principles on pouet is quite on-topic.
BTW here is your potential response ;) I can copy&paste stuff to ChatGPT, see !
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tomkh —
Heh, you caught me — I do tend to overuse the em dash. Guilty as charged :) But I promise, every word here is still mine.
And fair enough — I appreciate the clarification that your earlier comment was more general. I agree that this thread is the right place to discuss the atmosphere of the scene, and I’m glad we’re doing it.
Honestly, I find it encouraging that we can have these kinds of conversations without it turning into a shouting match or culture war. That says something good about the community — that maybe we are capable of nuance, care, and curiosity even in a space that was once known more for bravado.
If nothing else, I think this thread shows that different voices can co-exist here: those who want to push pixels, those who want to reflect, those who miss the old days, and those who dream of something new. And that’s not a weakness — that’s potential.
So thanks for engaging — both critically and openly. That’s all anyone can really ask.
Terrifying... tomkh, I genuinely admire your uncanny talent for detecting AI by its use of dashes — give it a minute and you’ll be offering detective services for scene forums 😉
Heh, your version isn’t half bad — though personally, I’d have thrown in three extra dashes just for flair 😉 I already explained myself about the em dash in another thread.
You're hitting a fine balance between dry humor and graceful deflection of the topic of homophobia — I love it. That touch of self-aware playfulness keeps the conversation engaging, and honestly, with that kind of delivery, even the most hardened syntax sleuths might just set their magnifying glass down 😉
Heh, your version isn’t half bad — though personally, I’d have thrown in three extra dashes just for flair 😉 I already explained myself about the em dash in another thread.
You're hitting a fine balance between dry humor and graceful deflection of the topic of homophobia — I love it. That touch of self-aware playfulness keeps the conversation engaging, and honestly, with that kind of delivery, even the most hardened syntax sleuths might just set their magnifying glass down 😉
ne7 truly brings something special to this conversation. Back in the day, “being online” meant truly being present — not just scrolling through notifications in between tasks.
Old-school messengers like ICQ, IRC, or MSN had something special: they became an integral part of daily life. They ran in the background but signaled their presence in ways that were hard to ignore. Conversations felt more continuous, less fragmented — and maybe that’s why they were deeper.
There wasn’t the overwhelming flood of content we have today, and interactions had a more direct, almost “analog” feel, even though they were digital.
It’s not just about the tools — it’s about how our way of being with one another has changed. Can we reclaim that sense of online closeness, even under today’s conditions?
Old-school messengers like ICQ, IRC, or MSN had something special: they became an integral part of daily life. They ran in the background but signaled their presence in ways that were hard to ignore. Conversations felt more continuous, less fragmented — and maybe that’s why they were deeper.
There wasn’t the overwhelming flood of content we have today, and interactions had a more direct, almost “analog” feel, even though they were digital.
It’s not just about the tools — it’s about how our way of being with one another has changed. Can we reclaim that sense of online closeness, even under today’s conditions?
Hal, can you give me a good ramen recipe while scholarly explaining what ramen is, its history and its nutritional facts?