pouët.net

Yes, they are retards. But so are so called right-wingers waiting, waiting and waiting for the "plan" to get into some kind of action, in vain, as technocratic, totalitaristic future is in all of their minds.

Luckily there are some people who don't believe in partisan politics, and want to build new from ground, bottom to up, like it should go. Piece by piece.

Count me in... when I calmed down.

Scamp: you can also just write a book with juicy stories from old parties.

For demoscene preservation, one thing that always bothers me is that platforms become obsolete and unmaintained over the years, so you can only watch videos after some time. Actually, it might be that modern platforms are more at risk that the older ones.

That would be both super cool and kinda shaky at the same time.

Why are you throwing around insults like "retard" and "moron"? Don't you have anything intelligent to say?

I do, but it's rarely appreciated.

If i get it right, we actually can only rely on archive.org. As long as the goverments don´t see the need for a central place to archive digital heritage, it´s on a long term complicated and we might loss things.

For me, it is also important to preserve things that have been done once. It starts with demos that were made long time ago and it is no longer possible to start them.. Even 5 Years are sometimes to long.
At this point, only a good emulation of passed windows / linux systems might help. Is just see also, that beside that, preserving is an absolut underrated point. I try my best for our group, to avoid this by preserving it on 2 different systems. Servers + Managed Cloud but this is also nothing more as an own place. We need a central, official place, maintained by a strong organisation or as i said, a government offering such place.

@Scamp

I still see you as "Scener" not an Ex "Scener". You can´t really left all behind you after such a long time of being one of us.


@People who like to seed hate and stress to each other in nearly every 2nd threat.

Could you guys just stop to use every threat to throw shit on each other. Could you guys stop your private wars ? is that fucking possible ??
One might not be able to be friend with everywhere, thats a natural thing. It´s also important to leave any sexual orientation, political preference, demonination stress talkout of the scene. It´s time to stop personal fights. Some guys are nearly 50 years old or even older. You dont need to accept some things but simple respect your opposite else it would be really the best to close the BBS and the Onliner forever !!!

Have a nice weekend
AMItac

About as much as on any online archive. They are fragile. Last year there was a major scare that archive.org may shut down forever due to copyright lawsuits. Scene.org may not face such challenges ever, but it's still an online archive, and it's a bit of a miracle that it's still up and running after so many years. Same can be said about Pouet, Demozoo, Lemon64 and some more. But these sites are exceptions, not the rule. Anything online only exists as long as someone is funding them. What about 20 years from now? There's also no guarantee that some future government decides that the internet is too much fun for the peasants.

okay, i get it, the scene is dead or something, i'm just gonna do some demoparty reenactment in ommen next week, if someone wants to join, we'll party just like in the old party reports i found

I never understood why volatility of an art form should be a problem? Graffiti has the exact same "problem", and nobody complains. And our prods aren't even volatile, we have mechanisms in place to document and preserve releases.

So demos are not what they used to be?
* make the demos you like to see

You're scared of losing the good memories from back then to substance abuse?
* ok so download the prods and buy & maintain the hardware necessary to run them

But less and less people join the scene11!11^
* Yo then quit gatekeeping like mad and reduce the omnipresent artistic inbreeding

"mechanisms" = "hardworking people documenting what we do & paying the bill for the platform enabling that"

nr4: The difference is that volatility had been part of the graffiti scene from the start, and some would probably say is part of the very definition of that scene. Also that scene operates in small, local groups.

While there are overlaps, I don't think this makes a good comparison.

Taking the techno scene as an example is much better fitting, in my humble opinion. By chances, not by planning really, that subculture had redundant word-wide distributed mirrors - copies of vinyl and CD that both can still easily be played today, and thanks to those who ignored the copyright mafia there are tons of rips in whatever distribution system on this planet. Even if you wanted, getting rid of the collective memory of that sub culture would be really hard.

Destroying/Deduplicating a big chunk of the inhertance of the demoscene however would basically amount to YouTube shutting down or becoming more evil, and a hand full of siteops of the few remaining demoscene sites quitting.

tomcat & v3nom: As I understand you both still see yourself as a part of the scene, just in different corners.

Uninterestingly I somewhat I agree with both of you:

v3nom to me often is showing a "I am opening my mouth only when it's cheap and of no risk to me" kind of attitude, and I clearly see this here in this thread which took a pretty off-topic turn.

And when it comes to tomcat, I have high respect of his contributions to the scene, but it's not only that: I have a bipolar borderline personality, but that's nothing compared to tomcat's. But for me the scene was always defined by having a very broad corridor of "what goes". And that's healthy, because competition and the arts needs some controversy for not to become simply boring.

This corridor has been shrunken massively during the last 15 years. Go watch some Breakpoint party videos - the amount of things that "no longer go" you will see is imense.

And v3nom has been part of the group of sceners who have been narrowing that corridor, hiding from any controversity where he would actually have to DO something.

I highly respect demoparty organizers carrying on, and no question Deadline is a wonderful demoparty - that's not it.

But to get back to my initial ramblings: The truth is that 90% of the entries that make the Revision demo compo unbearable in the past would either have gotten pre-selected, booed out, or being shamed to hell and above, due to people no longer respecting the rule that your first "hello world" kind of demo is not to be released at Easter Party.

The "outreach" campaign that started 10 years ago accelerated that. Now everybody is getting told "you are very special!" after having done some crappy JavaScript shit or basing 99,9% of the actual work of doing a demo on stuff previous-gen sceners had provided to them. And here the truth is that the majority of the actual real demo scene had more skills at the age of 14.

It's not a black and white matter at all. Once the (PC) demoscene had reached peak innovation, it became frustrating to see that the all time tops by the (previous gen) elite groups could hardly be beaten anymore.

I think the biggest form of disrespect is that a lot of the sceners that joined during the last 5-10 year are encouraged to commit prods that clearly are not only showing a lack of skill, but also a lack of effort (!).

Again: I find this insulting because the demosscene used to a very progressive and innovative subculture, and now is weird mix of retro, hollow echo, and some people still carrying the torch after 20+ years.

While this is off-topic here, I would RL-politically call me extreme left-wing, maybe even in the anarchists' camp. I still rejected (a lot in the past, much less these days) the part of the "woke"-movement without us having been offered an election got into power of regulating scene language in a drastic way. Yes, the term "lamer" sounds outdated, but I believe there needs to be some barrier the linkes of "if you are not motivated to learn this shit properly and wanting to INNOVATE, then get the fuck out back to TikTok or Chatroulette or whatever".

dipswitch:



I am not talking about academics. In this context, names are not relevant at all, I am talking about concepts.

low effort releases always existed in the demoscene, what the hell are you on about?

you complain there is a lack of newcomers. then you complain about people who been actively encouraging newcomers to release (who would otherwise give up on actively participating because the release quality bar is too high for them to match without the years of experience required, if they would release winner releases only).

release shame is paralyzing for a lot of people, not just newcomers. i would even go as far as believing it's one of the main reasons demosceners grow innactive "i can't do anything better", "it's too much work to do a new winner demo".

you want to believe your time was the highlight of the demoscene, that's fine, knock yourself out.

for the rest of us who are still active the best is still to come. plenty of people active doing demos and digital art. plenty of people organizing stuff. plenty of people planning trips to the next demoparty. plenty of people maintaining archives and communities.

if you had enough: goodbye, thanks for all the fish, see you in other circles. no need to ramble yet another "the scene is dead" thread to justify yourself not liking how the scene has changed since you joined. we been reading them for decades now, already know how they go.

scamp, I don't care if you respect me or not - especially if you have high respect against an alt-right "activist" who is suing demoparties amongst other things.
I will spare you any further words that would be "cheap and of no risk to me".
You're not doing your legacy a favour here.

gotta agree with ps here: as someone who adds old prods to demozoo on an almost daily basis, without regarding their quality, i can safely say that at least 50% of the prods that go through my hands while doing the archival work are extremely low-effort, even judged by back then's standards. so it's just a tinted memory of the "golden days" to think that it was all about nigh quality back in the days.

Maybe you're right about that. I haven't made up my mind entirely. I enjoy having referenceable (=deep-linkable) achievements. It's cool :)


Half true, but kinda oversimplified IMHO: Most firsties are not-that-good and their authors need some encouragement to keep investing the _immense_ amount of work necessary to make bangers. I was no exception to this, my first prod sucked ass massively. But I'm grateful I was neither booed out nor disqualified, or labeled a lamer. Face it, that loses people's interest.

With regard to the "rely on other's achievements" idea: I believe it's important to share knowledge and built upon things created by others. No need to invent 6632 wheels simultaneously when you could work together and build an entire truck and a racetrack for it in the same time if you only share your knowledge.


Cool, but why relevant? I joined at age 26, => I'm not a "real" scener, and I have to say the advantage of understanding actual math and not just high school level math is a vast advantage. Everything SDF is just much easier then.

I still find the perspective of Europeans so odd, like just knowing about the scene and not writing it off as the insane yaps of the Big Jim kid or like where some tracker tunes have music videos and not caring at all after that is in of itself special.