pouët.net

What is PETSCII - A guide for compo orgas

Lately, We've seen several cases of releases that don't adhere to PETSCII standard being entered into compos. Examples are: 11th place at Revision 2024 Textmode Graphics compo called "U-MOD3L", 4th place at Deadline 2024 Textmode Graphics compo called "Depth Logo with Obligatory Skull & Blood" and 2nd place at Xenium 2024 ASCII/ANSI/PETSCII compo called "Fantastic 4 Cracking Group logo".

The first mentioned example uses a custom character set instead of standard PETSCII. The second and third mentioned examples use multiple background colors and a custom combination of both "upper" and "lower" PETSCII character sets which is not possible in standard PETSCII.

Several PETSCII editors/paint programs out there allow for this faux/"fantasy" modes by untying the newcomer authors from original hardware restrictions. Some of them churn out C64 executables that utilize either normal character mode but with custom character set defined and written along with the displayer, ECM mode again with custom character set being written in the prg file, or downright hires bitmap mode (which is way out of even most lenient definition of "textmode graphics"). This furtherly confuses both newcomer authors and compo orgas because it leaves them under false impression that the file is compliant with standard PETSCII.

The shortest possible definition of PETSCII would be: if a picture can be recreated by using BASIC to print it on the screen (thx Groepaz) then it's a PETSCII. Or, if you can recreate it with no commands whatsoever (other than 2 POKEs for border/paper colors), by physically using cursor keys and the rest of the C64 keyboard Raquel Meyers style then it's a PETSCII for sure. I know compo orgas can't go writing BASIC programs or playing around with a real C64. Therefore I've attached a precise PETSCII specification at the bottom of this text. The origin of this specification is Shine's PETSCII World Discord server and the author is wbochar (a PETSCII artist and coder/maintainer of Petmate). Now, I'm aware that orgas can't reprint all this text when organizing a compo, but if they read and understand it, I'm sure they can distill the gist of it into something shorter that fits their needs. As long as they themselves are aware of the precise definition. Additionally, if future orgas are not sure about a specific entry, they can always contact Shine's PETSCII World on Discord or X, as the place is inhabited by nice people ready to help.

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Single Frame 'standard' PETSCII in PRG format

1. Uses built in character rom, UPPER or LOWER case (no mixing or flipping between cases).
2. No relocating ROM's, soft/custom roms, or copied ROM's.
3. petscii/data in standard (for that machine) screen and color memory area (if there is a color area)
4. Frame size is the default character editor dimensions for that platform (c64: 40x25 chars)
5. static background and border color (if that machine has that)
6. loops showing the picture (ie "jmp *")
7. No sprites, music, splits. rasterbars or other code manipulating the system. If you have to clarify something else thats legal, then assume No.
8. Auto starts from basic

So basically the PRG (program) on c64 just loads the screen chars and colors, sets the background, border and "pauses/loops" showing the pic.
Most of the time, I mean 99% we are talking about a c64 showing the petscii.
But technically, there are few platforms out there with their own distinct PETSCII/Colors/Frame implementations.
examples:
c64: 40x25 chars, 16 colors, background and border color.
PetX032: 40x25 or 80x25 chars, Mono Color (green/White), black background and no border color. There are multiple Char roms available for various pet versions..
vic20: 22x23 chars, Color is Fluid.., border 8 colors, background can have 16. The char roms are closer to the Pet than the c64
c128, c16... all have different color, screen size and rom differences..
So when you enter a compo or post a 'PETSCII' online.. we are usually talking about c64 40x25 chars.
If the compo has specific rules like "C64 Micro PETSCII 16x16 Mono Color" then override the values in the list above with the compo values.
Which means I can put 16 x 16 anywhere on the 40x25 screen with one color and choose another color for the Background, Border.
Any messing with the underlying char ROM's makes this a highres image that resembles a PETSCII, but is not a PETSCII.
The whole fun of this, is to work within the confines of PETSCII.
It's great to make art however you want to do it.. but if you want to call it a PETSCII image.. then those are the rules/guidelines.
There are many other formats that are PETSCII.. Wide and Long that scroll, animations, gfx demos. They all use the default charset/colors for that platform.

tl;dr is there an AI PETSCII generator yet?

👏
This is how a moderator interacts here. And then, people cry about how the users make this place “toxic”.

So, either it should be defined as "C64 PETSCII compo" or then all of these should be allowed as well, which renders the point of "basic on a real C64" moot.

Well, yes. My guess is the word “technically” is there because 99.99% of PETSCIIs released are C64 PETSCIIs. But sure, let’s be precise. AFAIK every platform that supports PETSCII (C64, PET, plus/4) has its own BASIC interpreter built-in, so “basic on native machine” works instead of “basic on a real C64”. As for singke background color and char amount restrictions: AFAIK C64 restrictions apply to all platforms using PETSCII. It’s just you get more char colors on plus/4 and less on the PET.

It would be great to eventually end this conversation having a specification for C64 PETSCII that everyone everywhere understands. That would be a great start. It seemed to me that we had it, but 3 invalid entries in 3 big parties this year, without orgas or authors even being aware of the entries’ invalidity are telling me that we lost it.

Imho the problem is, when bitmap graphics compete in a textmode competition.

But I don't think this a problem with "missing definition", but with limited resources by organizers to check and verify PETSCII entries.

Maybe a list of known tools that output bitmap instead of textmode files or tools that only allow to create valid PETSCII would probably easier to understand for PETSCII newbies than a hard to read and comprehend definition.

PETSCII should reference the default charset(s) and restrictions, i agree.
but whats wrong with having a "textmode gfx" compo and allow a lot more?

1) If we go down this path then all NES gfx for example becomes “textmode gfx”. Having a tile based gfx compo is an interesting idea, but it’s something else completely.
2) All of those past compos said: “ASCII, ANSI, PETSCII” afaik.

Well, Deadline's compo was indeed called "Textmode Graphics" this year, but that's mainly because the old "ANSI / ASCII / PETSCII / ATASCII" name was becoming unwieldy :)

Here's a petscii old man yelling at the clouds for you

👴🏻✊🏻☁️

Also, ranking 7th of 17 is not that bad at all.

@p01
Thank you for your creative and useful input. This is a nice example how everyone can contribute according to his/her capacity.

@SiR
Thank you for your creative and useful input. This is by far the most creative thing you ever contributed to the demoscene.

You're welcome.

👍🏻

For me as a beginner, PETSCII is the (plain) character set from the ROM, only one background color and 40x25 on the C64.

dogmas work like butter, good luck with that.
also being active on csdb, and then complaining about toxic behavior? lol.

Of course any organizers can allow anything what they want at their compos :-)

Although in general I think not many (if any) would accept an ASCII where I take a screenshot of my text editor output and then color the whole thing like I wish in photoshop / gimp / whatever. Maybe a compo where you explicitly allow such things can be fun, for sure. But I guess when not explicitly allowed most people will have another concept of ASCII. The same applies to the PETSCIIers I think :-)

@spiderj:
Exactly. It’s like painting a HAM picture on Amiga using brushes that are similar to Amiga Topaz font and then entering this picture into an ASCII compo. While these comparisons may seem superfluous, I feel they are necessary if only to illustrate the depth of this problem, because it seems to me that some people not directly involved seem to think that this is some kind of nitpicking snobby oldfartery. While it’s literally a “make or break” thing for many PETSCII artists I talked to.

putting a HAM picture in a "textmode gfx" would violate the rules indeed, so what are you asking?
theres a lot of smaller parties that only have "oldskool" or "alternative platform" gfx compos and in those you can enter basically anything that somehow runs on a specific platform. if a compo is PETSCII (or ANSI/ASCII or whatever) only it should of course comply to the rules.
yes, there have been edge cases, there have always been edge cases (just ask the photo compo orgas) and its ok to draw lines at some point but i dont see how the great PETSCII culture is being raped by photoshop lovers, sorry.

I have to admit that I don’t understand what you mean by “what are you asking”.

The 4th place entry into Textmode graphics (ASCII/ANSI/PETSCII/ATASCII) at this year’s Deadline is not “textmode” at all. In fact it’s not char mode at all. It’s a HiRes. Equivalent of C64 HiRes on Amiga would be HAM bitmap. So, yes, you can say that HAM pic was entered into textmode compo. It’s not an “edge case”. Calling this an “edge case” is ridiculous, believe me. I know what I’m talking about, but do we all know?

I don’t care about that specific entry in that specific party. But it’s the third example this year. We didn’t have that before. I would very much like to go back to everyone adhering to the specs. I don’t know is this an answer to “what are you asking”.

on demozoo it says that the #4 from deadline is "playscii" which seems to be consistent with the download on scene.org
the deadline compo is for textmode graphics, not petscii specifically

so ehm.. what's the problem really? you don't like "playscii" or smth?

i think a playscii picture in a textmode compo is the perfect example of an "edge case" ^^
(thanks for telling me this exists, btw.)

1) The thing was originally tagged #PETSCII on Demozoo. My dear buddy Tom changed it because it’s obviously not PETSCII.

2) The thing was entered into compo as PETSCII. You were told already here by someone from the orga team that the original compo name “ANSI/ASCII/PETSCII/ATASCII” was substituted with “textmode graphics” because the name became unwieldy, and not because some new hybrid “textmode graphics” philosophy was introduced.

3) What exactly about entering bitmap into textmode compo do you support and why?

Just like ANSI and ASCII, PETSCII is a well defined standard. PETSCII is not “custom hybrid gfx using C64 font”. This standard was adhered to until this year. Now it got trashed 3 times. Why would you or anyone support that? This is not “creative rulebending”. Why do you act like I insist on some exotic oldfartery? Why do you have a problem with all this?

Oh now a “playscii picture” is a thing suddenly? A new format? 🤣
I’m being interrogated and ridiculed by people who in all honesty couldn’t care less about the subject, by people who know little or next to nothing about the format. Why? Is it some kind of Deadline camaradery? Or what? I like Deadline. I’m not here to diss any particular party, I’m here to suggest future compliance to standard (like it was up until this year). Why is it so problematic? Why do you insist on your own quickly mustered opinion against what I’m telling you? Why don’t you rather ask some expert PETSCII artist friend of yours if you distrust me personally?