Sincere apologies
category: general [glöplog]
Usually the point is not wether your music is going to be liked or not. Tastes differ and there is no ISO for judgement. The point is into getting the chance to compete, even if you rank last in the end. It's all about getting your music heard! (or your demo shown on the big screen respectively).
ps, what you suggest is simply pointless.. the party thing is about gathering and sharing the experience. If the productions are only distributed within the party network only for people to hear and judge, then it could just as well be an online only competition on some irc channel. Even if only the preselected tunes were played on the big audio gear and the rest given out over the network cannot work as it would give a tremendous advantage to the productions that have been preselected.
I can't blame anyone for the preselection rule.. it is a necessity to fit the compo into a time schedule.
Last year, I had my first experience with a compo that sports preselection and got ruled out due to it. I had numerous talks about it with people discussing how music compos are always like that and you just have to live with it. I thought to myself.. well let's give it another try.. it might just be incidental.. and so I did.. and I just experienced the sequel, insult included.
In Greece we say that "repetition is the mother of all learning". So now that I had my fair share of repetition, I can safely say that I'll never submit a musical piece to a competition/party that sports a preselection rule again. Instead I'll submit it to a party/compo that usually has the right amount of entries so no preselection is needed. This way not only I can have my production delivered to the audience as it should, but also not get lost among a vast number of other entries.
ps, what you suggest is simply pointless.. the party thing is about gathering and sharing the experience. If the productions are only distributed within the party network only for people to hear and judge, then it could just as well be an online only competition on some irc channel. Even if only the preselected tunes were played on the big audio gear and the rest given out over the network cannot work as it would give a tremendous advantage to the productions that have been preselected.
I can't blame anyone for the preselection rule.. it is a necessity to fit the compo into a time schedule.
Last year, I had my first experience with a compo that sports preselection and got ruled out due to it. I had numerous talks about it with people discussing how music compos are always like that and you just have to live with it. I thought to myself.. well let's give it another try.. it might just be incidental.. and so I did.. and I just experienced the sequel, insult included.
In Greece we say that "repetition is the mother of all learning". So now that I had my fair share of repetition, I can safely say that I'll never submit a musical piece to a competition/party that sports a preselection rule again. Instead I'll submit it to a party/compo that usually has the right amount of entries so no preselection is needed. This way not only I can have my production delivered to the audience as it should, but also not get lost among a vast number of other entries.
AMusic: I know this feeling of loosing ur time for nothing. It's really depressive and it sucks.
Maybe peoples don't understand what it takes to make a (good) music. Nowadays musician needs to master everything from recording to pseudo-premastering to bang the audience while putting his soul in his music. We have no "excuse".
So, it's many hours/weeks of physical work. Then, when ur music is uploaded to the preselection jury, you don't really want to win. You just want that your music is played to the audience as the result of your hard work and see the feelings/emotions of the audience. (and how it sounds!)
Music has nothing to do with competition and indifference and I can't figure out how the jury can do good preselections when they have +80 songs to preselect.
The whole thing in a noisy environnement, lack of sleep and stress. It's maybe a pain for them.
So maybe musicians should stop losing their time by contributing to a compo which will keep their work anonymous.
I have too much respect for contributors so don't except me to give any subjective opinion.
Saying "not selected because it was crap" is on the contrary kind of irrespective for all the contributors.
One of the solution for the music compo would be for the jury to get the music many days before the party. Thus they will be able to select them with a clear mind by listening the music in their MP3 player/PC/car radio and so on...
Of course, he will break the "you have to be present" law, but contributing to an "art festival" without being here is not a crime and could even improve the quality of entries...
Just an opinion.
Maybe peoples don't understand what it takes to make a (good) music. Nowadays musician needs to master everything from recording to pseudo-premastering to bang the audience while putting his soul in his music. We have no "excuse".
So, it's many hours/weeks of physical work. Then, when ur music is uploaded to the preselection jury, you don't really want to win. You just want that your music is played to the audience as the result of your hard work and see the feelings/emotions of the audience. (and how it sounds!)
Music has nothing to do with competition and indifference and I can't figure out how the jury can do good preselections when they have +80 songs to preselect.
The whole thing in a noisy environnement, lack of sleep and stress. It's maybe a pain for them.
So maybe musicians should stop losing their time by contributing to a compo which will keep their work anonymous.
I have too much respect for contributors so don't except me to give any subjective opinion.
Saying "not selected because it was crap" is on the contrary kind of irrespective for all the contributors.
One of the solution for the music compo would be for the jury to get the music many days before the party. Thus they will be able to select them with a clear mind by listening the music in their MP3 player/PC/car radio and so on...
Of course, he will break the "you have to be present" law, but contributing to an "art festival" without being here is not a crime and could even improve the quality of entries...
Just an opinion.
i guess that it's just the way it goes. i remember in holland where at Bizarre and Takeover so many modules where handed in they had a 'music compo' and a 'house compo' splitting genres into 2 compos. And as musician you where only allowed to enter in one compo (which resulted in lots of new 'sceners' popping up :))
music compos are never ideal, i guess there is not much to change that. the idea of handing in mp3s days before the party seems in my eyes too much hassle for a compo.
music compos are never ideal, i guess there is not much to change that. the idea of handing in mp3s days before the party seems in my eyes too much hassle for a compo.
aMusic --> submit to ifparty! we will be glad of having some aMUSIC music in the compos, and won't cut it, nor preselect it ;)
By the way, I think submitting entries in the music compos is becoming completely useless. I started to think that in the bcnparty when almost nobody listened to the entries (just ps, dixan, silenci, and someone more..) when they were played publicly.
Thinking about the way preselection works here and there does not make me change opinion, in fact it just reaffirmates what I started to believe...
And don't forget to go to inerciademoparty05!!
By the way, I think submitting entries in the music compos is becoming completely useless. I started to think that in the bcnparty when almost nobody listened to the entries (just ps, dixan, silenci, and someone more..) when they were played publicly.
Thinking about the way preselection works here and there does not make me change opinion, in fact it just reaffirmates what I started to believe...
And don't forget to go to inerciademoparty05!!
sole: \o/
(it must be good when foreign people start advertising our party!)
yes, come to inerciademoparty05! we will play everything! no preselection! no cutting! no nothing!!!
(it must be good when foreign people start advertising our party!)
yes, come to inerciademoparty05! we will play everything! no preselection! no cutting! no nothing!!!
If we had played all entries without cutting etc, it would have been a long fucking compo :)
Sole, thanks for the tip.. but It has been scheduled for pixelshow (which will be teh roxxorz.. and doesn't have an entrance fee ehehehehe)
what about cutting the music played length to 2 mins and play more contributions. I even have been to a party where they played each song for 30 secs :) But that ofcourse is unfair, especially for the musicians that have a long intro in their song before the tune really starts to play...LOL.
aMUSIC: you don't have to pay if you don't come to the party but also submit an entry... c'mon... do you only have ONE song? :)
Even so, 2 minutes for 80 entries would result into almost 3 hours (adding also the pauses between the tracks). But you can't develop the musical idea in just 2 minutes.. it would sound rushed.
Sole, I'll see what I can do.. I do have only one unreleased song, as I usually release what I write. When's the ifparty?
Sole, I'll see what I can do.. I do have only one unreleased song, as I usually release what I write. When's the ifparty?
14-17 april
at Inercia Demoparty :
1) you do not have to fear preselection.
2) you DO NOT have to fear preselection.
This applies to all compos.
1) you do not have to fear preselection.
2) you DO NOT have to fear preselection.
This applies to all compos.
Friendly reminder: Spamming scene forums/channels/sites with repeated party info usually results in LESS people showing up at the party, not more. Also most other concepts used for selling penis enlargement pills won't work.
ehehehe well scamp.. we don't expect anyone outside greece to come to our party anyway.. but let us pretend that we do ok? =) it makes us feel that our party is important =)
*cough*pilgrimage*cough* :)
i got preselected twice too, once on takeover, once on mekka. as a result, after long thinking, i introduced party streams on the ultimate meeting where i organize the ogg/mp3 music competition. with that method, people who have not been played on the big system can still be heard and voted by people in the audience.
breakpoint had a stream too, but you were not allowed to vote for non-preselected artists. this has its advantage, as you can submit your entry to other parties. then again i really doubt that anyone will submit his entry twice.
amusic, send your track to pouet@paniq.org and i'll comment on it.
breakpoint had a stream too, but you were not allowed to vote for non-preselected artists. this has its advantage, as you can submit your entry to other parties. then again i really doubt that anyone will submit his entry twice.
amusic, send your track to pouet@paniq.org and i'll comment on it.
what i don't understand is why this discussion isn't about nosfe's close to violent behaviour on stage when people stepped onto it while his contribution was played.
why can't artists accept that people don't like their works?
i know nosfe lost all of my respect in that moment.
violence SUCKS.
why can't artists accept that people don't like their works?
i know nosfe lost all of my respect in that moment.
violence SUCKS.
but... violence is art?
gemini: nosfe lost the will to be understanding towards narrowminded people too long ago. i blame circa 10 years of retardeds constantly censoring and blindly dismissing his work as crap all the time. (fuckings to asm orgas and their preselection juries btw)
i wish i had his balls - to keep beeing pissed for beeing missunderstood and keep coming back for more - i just sulk into a "they dont care, no one does, why bother" pool of lazyness.
nosfe rules, and i feel sorry for anyone who will dare to tell him his lifes work never deserved beeing shown, to his face.
he was crying on the inside for beeing missunderstood, for laying his heart out bare and ppl shamelessly just wanna censor it couz they're bored to watch it at the moment. i dont blame him for getting violent, he was drunk and tired and not in the mood to see his work shitted upon once again. scene sucks, nosfe rules. fuckings to anyone who wants censorship in compos and the media brainwashed kids.
i wish i had his balls - to keep beeing pissed for beeing missunderstood and keep coming back for more - i just sulk into a "they dont care, no one does, why bother" pool of lazyness.
nosfe rules, and i feel sorry for anyone who will dare to tell him his lifes work never deserved beeing shown, to his face.
he was crying on the inside for beeing missunderstood, for laying his heart out bare and ppl shamelessly just wanna censor it couz they're bored to watch it at the moment. i dont blame him for getting violent, he was drunk and tired and not in the mood to see his work shitted upon once again. scene sucks, nosfe rules. fuckings to anyone who wants censorship in compos and the media brainwashed kids.
i think people maybe forget that it's a DEMOCOMPO not a "ART" EXHIBITION.
often the guys making this stuff claim they just want it shown on the bigscreen, they dont care about compo placings. in which case, have an "exhibition" section out of compo with no preselection and no voting, where anything can be shown. interested people can watch it knowing what to expect. everyone else can avoid it. =)
often the guys making this stuff claim they just want it shown on the bigscreen, they dont care about compo placings. in which case, have an "exhibition" section out of compo with no preselection and no voting, where anything can be shown. interested people can watch it knowing what to expect. everyone else can avoid it. =)
gemini, close to violent != violent. i did control myself.
anyway, i think i'll get study credits from that one when i'll tell about it on the performance art class i'm attending. too bad if you can't appreciate.
i do think that artist has the right to protect his/her creation against destruction. the reason why i was especially angry about this particular entry getting fucked up, was that i seriously spent most of the summer 2003 editing that video. (and if any you think that it didn't take a long time, answer me these questions first: what kind of footage did i use? what kind of software and technics did i use? well, some people i already did told that) for a dvd release which was about to come up. only to find out after all the hard work that the label had cancelled the whole thing a long time ago, just didn't care to inform me. so i got fucked with that one then.
and due to the original soundtrack being something which i didn't have rights to use myself, i couldn't even release it anywhere. i now made a re-edit of the thing with a new soundtrack for this party, only to find out that some fuckers wanted to fuck me up again. i sure as hell didn't want to see that happen.
that video is one of the most demanding works i've ever done in video, and i do also think that it's one of the few that've got close to the idea that i've been after.
kb, the one good thing about when something like this happen, is that the organising team will learn to handle it better in the future. and i do trust that you will do better in the future.
one possible idea for the future might be that the list of entries to be played would be announced beforehand. so people could see that of, there's kosmoplovci and nosfe coming up, so let's go out for 20minutes.
and i could go out when there's some stupid game-reference joke productions. everyone would win!
smash, for me democompo is an art exhibition. i really can't understand why so many people try to keep demoscene as something which isn't art, when in the end it IS all about creating things. which is art.
anyway, for some parties such exhibition section might be an okay idea, asm especially seems to be a place where anything with original ideas get disqualified.
but, if demos are not art at all, why not get back to "i have 100000zillion polys" style of design again? if the technical aspect is the only thing that demoscene is about.
about joke prods,
the problem with joke productions in the competitions is that usually people who do them don't care to see enough trouble to make them seriously enugh so that they would actually be good. it seems that if people are doing productions with humor in it, they take the actual process of doing it as a joke also, and deliver the joke to compo as somewhat badly done and unfinished, cause it's only a joke.
there are few exceptions of course.
anyway, i do really really really hate people who do those game-reference jokes, can't you atleast make up some new ideas of your own?
ps, you're a poet. :)
about music compos in overall, i never care to listen music compos unless there are my tracks in them, and that only happens and mini-size parties. best music compo that i remember was at symphony03, not because the entries were good, but because they organised it so that it was a dance-party, so we were dancing up on the stage to the music they played in the compo. and sadly i do think that might be the only way to make a music competition enjoyable, to have it more like a dj-set than "let's sit here and listen to random crap for 2hours"
making the compo to different style categories might be a good idea, to have for example happy hardcore set, elektro-set and ambient set. or whatever the orgas might like. or a tango-set!
anyway, if people don't like the shit i do, you can announce it as loud as you like AFTER it has been shown. i'm not trying to get your shit off the screen if i don't like it. mutual respect is the thing.
well, except that milk thing shouldn't have been shown since it has been released years ago, in a disqualified compo that i was organising at altparty 03.
anyway, now off to make some photo-gravyr prints.
anyway, i think i'll get study credits from that one when i'll tell about it on the performance art class i'm attending. too bad if you can't appreciate.
i do think that artist has the right to protect his/her creation against destruction. the reason why i was especially angry about this particular entry getting fucked up, was that i seriously spent most of the summer 2003 editing that video. (and if any you think that it didn't take a long time, answer me these questions first: what kind of footage did i use? what kind of software and technics did i use? well, some people i already did told that) for a dvd release which was about to come up. only to find out after all the hard work that the label had cancelled the whole thing a long time ago, just didn't care to inform me. so i got fucked with that one then.
and due to the original soundtrack being something which i didn't have rights to use myself, i couldn't even release it anywhere. i now made a re-edit of the thing with a new soundtrack for this party, only to find out that some fuckers wanted to fuck me up again. i sure as hell didn't want to see that happen.
that video is one of the most demanding works i've ever done in video, and i do also think that it's one of the few that've got close to the idea that i've been after.
kb, the one good thing about when something like this happen, is that the organising team will learn to handle it better in the future. and i do trust that you will do better in the future.
one possible idea for the future might be that the list of entries to be played would be announced beforehand. so people could see that of, there's kosmoplovci and nosfe coming up, so let's go out for 20minutes.
and i could go out when there's some stupid game-reference joke productions. everyone would win!
smash, for me democompo is an art exhibition. i really can't understand why so many people try to keep demoscene as something which isn't art, when in the end it IS all about creating things. which is art.
anyway, for some parties such exhibition section might be an okay idea, asm especially seems to be a place where anything with original ideas get disqualified.
but, if demos are not art at all, why not get back to "i have 100000zillion polys" style of design again? if the technical aspect is the only thing that demoscene is about.
about joke prods,
the problem with joke productions in the competitions is that usually people who do them don't care to see enough trouble to make them seriously enugh so that they would actually be good. it seems that if people are doing productions with humor in it, they take the actual process of doing it as a joke also, and deliver the joke to compo as somewhat badly done and unfinished, cause it's only a joke.
there are few exceptions of course.
anyway, i do really really really hate people who do those game-reference jokes, can't you atleast make up some new ideas of your own?
ps, you're a poet. :)
about music compos in overall, i never care to listen music compos unless there are my tracks in them, and that only happens and mini-size parties. best music compo that i remember was at symphony03, not because the entries were good, but because they organised it so that it was a dance-party, so we were dancing up on the stage to the music they played in the compo. and sadly i do think that might be the only way to make a music competition enjoyable, to have it more like a dj-set than "let's sit here and listen to random crap for 2hours"
making the compo to different style categories might be a good idea, to have for example happy hardcore set, elektro-set and ambient set. or whatever the orgas might like. or a tango-set!
anyway, if people don't like the shit i do, you can announce it as loud as you like AFTER it has been shown. i'm not trying to get your shit off the screen if i don't like it. mutual respect is the thing.
well, except that milk thing shouldn't have been shown since it has been released years ago, in a disqualified compo that i was organising at altparty 03.
anyway, now off to make some photo-gravyr prints.
paniq wrote:
i got preselected twice too, once on takeover, once on mekka. as a result, after long thinking, i introduced party streams on the ultimate meeting where i organize the ogg/mp3 music competition. with that method, people who have not been played on the big system can still be heard and voted by people in the audience.
breakpoint had a stream too, but you were not allowed to vote for non-preselected artists. this has its advantage, as you can submit your entry to other parties. then again i really doubt that anyone will submit his entry twice.
amusic, send your track to pouet@paniq.org and i'll comment on it.
Please stop confusing people further. Preselected means that you WERE played on the big screen, not that you were thrown out. Get it right, it can't be that hard.
i got preselected twice too, once on takeover, once on mekka. as a result, after long thinking, i introduced party streams on the ultimate meeting where i organize the ogg/mp3 music competition. with that method, people who have not been played on the big system can still be heard and voted by people in the audience.
breakpoint had a stream too, but you were not allowed to vote for non-preselected artists. this has its advantage, as you can submit your entry to other parties. then again i really doubt that anyone will submit his entry twice.
amusic, send your track to pouet@paniq.org and i'll comment on it.
Please stop confusing people further. Preselected means that you WERE played on the big screen, not that you were thrown out. Get it right, it can't be that hard.
nosfe: listen, i didn't say anything about your work. i might not, while being quite drunk, have thought it was suitable for a demoparty, but i didn't say it wasn't nice. please don't think i disrespect your work, it's not about that.
my point was that i really dislike fascistoid actions like that. even if it wasn't physical violence it still was violence, and to be honest i don't think that should be tolerated at a demoparty at all. if you would have done that at a demoparty i would have organized, you would have been thrown out. period.
my point was that i really dislike fascistoid actions like that. even if it wasn't physical violence it still was violence, and to be honest i don't think that should be tolerated at a demoparty at all. if you would have done that at a demoparty i would have organized, you would have been thrown out. period.
Art is nice.
Minimal art is nice.
But I came to see many things at BP which are actually closer to bigscreen hijacking and intellectual lazyness than to real Art.
Minimal art is nice.
But I came to see many things at BP which are actually closer to bigscreen hijacking and intellectual lazyness than to real Art.
gemini, so, attacking against one's work is OK for you, but defending it is not? i consider the action against my work as violence against me and as the organisers seemed to be ok with that the only way for me to defend my work was to scare those fuckers off from stage. because the organisers didn't seem to care take them off there, shit, they had just encouraged people to do so.
the actual point isn't even wether my work is good or not, but if i have the right to defend my work against a few drunken idiots who are trying to ruin it for me and all those people in the audience who were intrested to see the whole thing.
if you think that those fuckers had the right to do what they were doing, you're as big as asshole as they were.
the actual point isn't even wether my work is good or not, but if i have the right to defend my work against a few drunken idiots who are trying to ruin it for me and all those people in the audience who were intrested to see the whole thing.
if you think that those fuckers had the right to do what they were doing, you're as big as asshole as they were.