AI crap in compo entries?
category: general [glöplog]
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For your unprovoked personal vendetta
Are you hallucinating? What vendetta? Please help me out. What’s your standpoint?
A) The story is really great, but I’m full of crap or jelous or something or
B) The story actually is crap but we shouldn’t criticize because it’s made with AI
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You've made your opinion quite clear. No need to keep repeating it over and over again.What vendetta?
Send Toxic Modulo fanmail and art to:
t ëtt sm41 piste de
Digital and also conventional hand drawn and digitized/scanned -
either way, try to hide your name and age. Ask friends for digitizing!
to be continued!
t ëtt sm41 piste de
Digital and also conventional hand drawn and digitized/scanned -
either way, try to hide your name and age. Ask friends for digitizing!
to be continued!
Well anyway, let's not allow a handful of trolls to ruin our favourite hobby.
One thing I find consoling about AI art is that it brings us one step closer to creating a Holodeck. I played with an AI skybox generator earlier and f.ex I could ask it to create "1930s shanghai" and in a few seconds it would create such a skybox. If I had VR glasses to look around in that scene it would be very much like a primitive holodeck.
There will never be enough artists around to fuel such on demand generation of scenery ever so the AI style asset generation may be necessary to make our Star Trek fantasies come true.
There will never be enough artists around to fuel such on demand generation of scenery ever so the AI style asset generation may be necessary to make our Star Trek fantasies come true.
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Indeed.let's not allow a handful of trolls to ruin our favourite hobby.
@Krill
OK, I understand, let’s lay off the prod. It is what it is. Some people like it, some don’t. No further bashing nor praise needed. I agree.
OK, I understand, let’s lay off the prod. It is what it is. Some people like it, some don’t. No further bashing nor praise needed. I agree.
I find one point of my AI-questioned summary most appropriate:
"The debate around AI-generated content may detract from the overall focus on creativity and human expression in the demoscene."
I posted a YT fun video in the oneliner a few weeks ago with AI-generated images and a slightly customized but original music mix from 2006 with my own music that I put hundreds of hours of work into. A group of trolls from the scene laughed at me and flamed me for my lame music skillz. That hurts more than anything and you lose the desire to continue seriously. In any case, I laugh my ass off every time I watch that video. And that's exactly why it's a good thing.
I already don't like the term AI because it's completely inappropriate. This shi* is popping up everywhere and there's more and more of it. That's why the video has its own funny crappy style. Fun about crap but maybe "familiar" faces. I could have left a lot pics out but hey...
As always, it's up to the person what they make of it. Most people are selfish, mendacious and simply "shit", even the elite is not untainted! Inside, of course, we are all sunshine. Sry, but true in my midaged mind.
So if you use AI, please be honest with the others. For me, it's all the same as memes and funny animated *.gif. It's for consumers and maybe science and education.
deepl was helping me out a little with this text, so...
"The debate around AI-generated content may detract from the overall focus on creativity and human expression in the demoscene."
I posted a YT fun video in the oneliner a few weeks ago with AI-generated images and a slightly customized but original music mix from 2006 with my own music that I put hundreds of hours of work into. A group of trolls from the scene laughed at me and flamed me for my lame music skillz. That hurts more than anything and you lose the desire to continue seriously. In any case, I laugh my ass off every time I watch that video. And that's exactly why it's a good thing.
I already don't like the term AI because it's completely inappropriate. This shi* is popping up everywhere and there's more and more of it. That's why the video has its own funny crappy style. Fun about crap but maybe "familiar" faces. I could have left a lot pics out but hey...
As always, it's up to the person what they make of it. Most people are selfish, mendacious and simply "shit", even the elite is not untainted! Inside, of course, we are all sunshine. Sry, but true in my midaged mind.
So if you use AI, please be honest with the others. For me, it's all the same as memes and funny animated *.gif. It's for consumers and maybe science and education.
deepl was helping me out a little with this text, so...
so, what did we learn, young bucky? next time use AI to generate your music!
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people that don't see the difference between an LLM and a demo tool are weird. Like, if I make a demo in Notch, I'm not generating a whole demo of stolen content with one prompt.
100% this. People who use a demotool or game engine are using something for which permission was (usually) given and those using one of the big LLMs is using a model based on somebody's art where permission was (usually) *not* given.
Taking into account the general culture of the scene I'm not going to say the second is strictly "bad" or "lame", sometimes it's better to ask forgiveness than permission and all that, but this is the difference. It's not impossible that somebody comes along and wows us all with some clever and creative use of an LLM, though it will likely be a very unorthodox use.
But echoing Scamp from way back at the beginning of the thread, I think it's at the very least good etiquette to put the tools used in the nfo file and on the slide so that those viewing your prods understand how you made them. This of course applies to any set of tools, of course.
still, if apparently a significant part of the crowd is completely ignorant to grasp what comes from the "tools", mentioning them won't help. see the above "I didn't know it was AI"
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so, what did we learn, young bucky? next time use AI to generate your music!
We? What next? Life? Next time, spend your life making better jokes about other people's lives!
@rloaderro
exactly this was one of the (major) points of my aforementioned "AI"-rant.
just imagine in games development you need the interiors for all the buildings in a city - just let the "AI" confabulate / hallucinate them based on what they typically look like (and repeat a few ten or hundred-thousand times).
My takeaway from this thread is that we all seem to agree that using "AI" as a glorified search engine that just (re)mixes human-made content, possibly without even licensing it properly, is just lame.
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One thing I find consoling about AI art is that it brings us one step closer to creating a Holodeck. I played with an AI skybox generator earlier and f.ex I could ask it to create "1930s shanghai" and in a few seconds it would create such a skybox. If I had VR glasses to look around in that scene it would be very much like a primitive holodeck.
There will never be enough artists around to fuel such on demand generation of scenery ever so the AI style asset generation may be necessary to make our Star Trek fantasies come true.
exactly this was one of the (major) points of my aforementioned "AI"-rant.
just imagine in games development you need the interiors for all the buildings in a city - just let the "AI" confabulate / hallucinate them based on what they typically look like (and repeat a few ten or hundred-thousand times).
My takeaway from this thread is that we all seem to agree that using "AI" as a glorified search engine that just (re)mixes human-made content, possibly without even licensing it properly, is just lame.
No worries, the novelty will wear off eventually, until some coming hyped trend. :)
on a philosophical side note: that we ourselves are not "artificial intelligences", created by higher beings, has not been disproven, yet. It would've been a pretty damn smart move (create universe, receive bacon. dang!) (the sum of all energy in the universe may be zero(livescience.com) -- suspicious :-))
those comparing making a demo in notch/ue/unity to generative ai clearly don't realise how difficult it is to make a demo in notch/ue/unity :)
srsly, the difference is pretty obvious. using notch takes over some of the technical duties, yep. (tell a designer trying to cut their vram usage that it takes over all of it.)
but using genai takes over the technical and creative duties. you become the client - like a corporate exec who thinks hes creative as he sends his latest brilliant comments to his creative agency - not the creative.
if you made a demo by taking a bunch of notch samples, gluing them together and changing the colours, you're also not being creative and you also deserve the negativity. but our samples are not that good, and ive never seen any demo that did that - people use notch to make demos because they do want to be creative (and want decent tools to do it), not because they don't.
and again ill say - please separate "ai the tech" (which has all kinds of interesting pissibilities and covers a vast scope from dlss to tracking to nerfs) and using consumer level genai to create assets by typing a line of text into a website.
srsly, the difference is pretty obvious. using notch takes over some of the technical duties, yep. (tell a designer trying to cut their vram usage that it takes over all of it.)
but using genai takes over the technical and creative duties. you become the client - like a corporate exec who thinks hes creative as he sends his latest brilliant comments to his creative agency - not the creative.
if you made a demo by taking a bunch of notch samples, gluing them together and changing the colours, you're also not being creative and you also deserve the negativity. but our samples are not that good, and ive never seen any demo that did that - people use notch to make demos because they do want to be creative (and want decent tools to do it), not because they don't.
and again ill say - please separate "ai the tech" (which has all kinds of interesting pissibilities and covers a vast scope from dlss to tracking to nerfs) and using consumer level genai to create assets by typing a line of text into a website.
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I guess the pushback against this production would have been minimal or even non-existant had the artist trained a generative AI on their own material and then used that to AI-fill in the blanks on pencil drawings.please separate "ai the tech" (which has all kinds of interesting pissibilities and covers a vast scope from dlss to tracking to nerfs) and using consumer level genai to create assets by typing a line of text into a website.
(No idea how readily-available that kind of software is, and what order of magnitude of computing resources this requires.)
In that case it should be regarded as a mere tool and really need no mention.
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In the end i'll thumb down every piece of garbage AI art i'll see, like some coder might thumb down demos made in a commercial editor.
That kind of "angry mob" trend saddens me.
And it's probably counterproductive: it will make honest creative people (that just want to try/leverage this new tools) go away.
AND THE SCENE WILL DIE ;)
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Has it ever lived? :)AND THE SCENE WILL DIE ;)
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using genai takes over the technical and creative duties. you become the client - like a corporate exec who thinks hes creative as he sends his latest brilliant comments to his creative agency - not the creative.
Exactly. This tech was developed for the client/exec not for the creative. It was developed to squeeze out the creative. It's even semi-openly marketed in that way. I can't understand how some people fail to see that?
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At least I would have thought that to be an interesting experiment indeed.used that to AI-fill in the blanks on pencil drawings.
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At least for my part, this discussion isn't about TM2 in particular. There has been a number of "oldschool" releases lately, in various shapes an forms, that have used AI images. Some openly, some not, some more successfully than others. One of the things that struck me, as it did you, has been the inability of the audience to identify the use of AI in these productions.the pushback against this production
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At least for my part, this discussion isn't about TM2 in particular.
My part too.
I find it weird how Krill whines about people over-excessively bashing the prod, and then every few posts down goes dragging the prod back into focus.
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I was "whining" about you in particular only.I find it weird how Krill whines about people over-excessively bashing the prod, and then every few posts down goes dragging the prod back into focus.
TM2 was what caused this thread, and i mentioned it in a reply to outline a scenario where use of generative AI would probably have been acceptable to the wider scene crowd, and this thread never existed.
Some demos give credits for "direction". How does the use of AI compare to the role of "director" or such in demos?
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Some demos give credits for "direction". How does the use of AI compare to the role of "director" or such in demos?
Art direction is exactly one of several big failings of this prod imho. Art direction was performed by a human. And it failed. I'm guessing the problem is how to force visual consistency between prompts. Good thing about it all is that art direction is better than in the first TM. Which means art directing the prompt is progressing.
And here I go about the prod again, and I said we shouldn't. Sorry Krill.