AI crap in compo entries?
category: general [glöplog]
@rexbeng: I think most people here when saying “art” mean “artwork” (like in a prod). And when they say “artist” they mean “graphician” or perhaps “vfx artist” if the scope is broader. I don’t think people are refering to the capital A art. At least I don’t. I use “art” or “artist” for lack of a better word.
And yes, I agree with you, this is meandering all over the place. I know it, being one of the culprits.
And yes, I agree with you, this is meandering all over the place. I know it, being one of the culprits.
Yeah, thanks for understanding. Perhaps people (me included) should not mix context by bringing references from the broad art world. It happened in previous discussions and led to no productive conclusions (if hardly any!).
Demo with a shot where AI vomit is the main focus... "keeping the demoscene alive tho" haha 👍 nice bro, this is really changing the game. Why don't you paste in some shadertoys as well (👋).
Nice try, but doesn't raise the ante over the Dutch Troll Faction's knee-jerks. :)
I don't have time to read up on long topics, so I asked a "friend" to help me with a...
Summary: The discussion revolves around the use of AI-generated images in demo parties. Many express concerns about the lack of creativity, ethical issues, and the need for transparency in disclosing AI-generated content. Some argue that AI tools can be used creatively, while others feel that AI-generated content lacks human involvement and is boring. The debate also touches on the essence of the demoscene and the role of technology in competitions.
Advantages:
AI tools can be used creatively to inspire new artwork.
AI-generated content can open up new possibilities for artistic expression.
Transparency in disclosing AI use can lead to better-informed judgments in competitions.
AI-generated images can save time and effort for artists.
AI technology demonstrates progress and innovation in the creative field.
Disadvantages:
AI-generated content may lack the personal touch and human elements that make art meaningful.
There are challenges related to ethics, copyright issues, and proper crediting of AI-generated work.
The use of AI may devalue traditional artistic skills and processes.
AI-generated images can be seen as unoriginal and uninspiring.
The debate around AI-generated content may detract from the overall focus on creativity and human expression in the demoscene.
Summary: The discussion revolves around the use of AI-generated images in demo parties. Many express concerns about the lack of creativity, ethical issues, and the need for transparency in disclosing AI-generated content. Some argue that AI tools can be used creatively, while others feel that AI-generated content lacks human involvement and is boring. The debate also touches on the essence of the demoscene and the role of technology in competitions.
Advantages:
AI tools can be used creatively to inspire new artwork.
AI-generated content can open up new possibilities for artistic expression.
Transparency in disclosing AI use can lead to better-informed judgments in competitions.
AI-generated images can save time and effort for artists.
AI technology demonstrates progress and innovation in the creative field.
Disadvantages:
AI-generated content may lack the personal touch and human elements that make art meaningful.
There are challenges related to ethics, copyright issues, and proper crediting of AI-generated work.
The use of AI may devalue traditional artistic skills and processes.
AI-generated images can be seen as unoriginal and uninspiring.
The debate around AI-generated content may detract from the overall focus on creativity and human expression in the demoscene.
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Quote:somewhere before the creation of the model trained on art without the informed, enthusiastic consent of the artists
So AI trained with material freely provided by artists is okay?
i'm honored that you look to me for an arbitration here, but the way this question is posed makes me wonder what its purpose of all this boundary testing is. it feels to me a bit like, to adapt the famous dril tweet, 'turning a big dial taht says "Exploitation" on it and constantly looking back at the audience for approval like a contestant on the price is right'
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You wrote a prompt? Nice. I'm sure it's the inevitable future. But this isn't an ad agency, it's the little part of the world where we still fawn over 40 year old hardware. I always find it disappointing when the two get mixed up.
Grip won.
The same crap creeps into pouet logo voting page. Feels like a prank. We are not ready for it yet, maybe our kids going to love those ai generated images.
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the gate of access to acquiring artistic skill, kept by the expensiveness and time consumption of getting an art education, if I understood the argument correctly.
I wouldn't say there's gatekeeping involved in acquiring the skills, since nobody is prevented from putting in the effort, but I see your point if an art degree was assumed.
it's terribly ironic that people at talking about gatekeeping when obviosuly AI services will become accessible to the ones with the most money to pour into the shit.
Anybody who want to take up drawing will just need pencils and paper; and any small computer, dangit even a raspberry pi, could kickstart pixel artists in the becoming. Who says this is gatekeeping what we're doing? Oh no we gatekeep well-paid engineers from making a profit of the hard work of thousands of artists, boo boo.
Anybody who want to take up drawing will just need pencils and paper; and any small computer, dangit even a raspberry pi, could kickstart pixel artists in the becoming. Who says this is gatekeeping what we're doing? Oh no we gatekeep well-paid engineers from making a profit of the hard work of thousands of artists, boo boo.
Honestly, throughout the discussion I am getting the feeling that, with regards to graphics & graphics compos, what stands in the balance is: Plagiarism is fine unless it's plagiarism achieved by using AI. So, not much a matter of "graphics will end up being uninspired, boring, of the pile, copies". And please, don't bring the 'kids will not study art because of AI' in it, because art is not about siting infront of a screen, toying with semi or fully automated tools to 'get some job done'.
The only good thing I have seen come as a consequence of introducing "ai" technology to creative activities is that it forces humans to contemplate their motivations, and justifications, for doing what they do. This can be healthy, but it might lead to a more fragmented and/or polarized environment.
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Honestly, throughout the discussion I am getting the feeling that, with regards to graphics & graphics compos, what stands in the balance is: Plagiarism is fine unless it's plagiarism achieved by using AI.
Nobody has said this? the scene has been plagiarizing since the beginning and people have been calling it lame since the beginning.
Then perhaps you need to raise the standards with which you define what is 'creative' and 'interesting' and, ultimately, 'demoscene-ish' and what is not.
I guess it's a matter of context.
When AI image generation tools came out, I found it impressive as a technical exploit. The images looked fantastic, for they seemed to exist out of nothing.
Now my brain has been trained to spot and expose AI images, and my feeling is they suck, for I know there's no work behind it. Worse, there's pillage underneath.
Finding AI images in demos harms my feelings even more. To me, a scener works his/her value through perseverance and prowess. But maybe it's just me and my old way of thinking.
When AI image generation tools came out, I found it impressive as a technical exploit. The images looked fantastic, for they seemed to exist out of nothing.
Now my brain has been trained to spot and expose AI images, and my feeling is they suck, for I know there's no work behind it. Worse, there's pillage underneath.
Finding AI images in demos harms my feelings even more. To me, a scener works his/her value through perseverance and prowess. But maybe it's just me and my old way of thinking.
I may be conflating different opinions here, but...
How can AI imagery be unoriginal/derivative/flat etc. and at the same time threaten to put artists producing fresh original pieces out of work?
If there is a demand for new original material, only human creativity can provide that, still.
How can AI imagery be unoriginal/derivative/flat etc. and at the same time threaten to put artists producing fresh original pieces out of work?
If there is a demand for new original material, only human creativity can provide that, still.
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Then perhaps you need to raise the standards with which you define what is 'creative' and 'interesting' and, ultimately, 'demoscene-ish' and what is not.
Why? for what? Maybe we should distinguish 'typing prompts to generate images' from 'technology that uses AI to enhance parts of an image/mesh' (the techniques smash and others have called out).
AI Image generation is not creative, it's a business approach to creativity, cranking out terrible art in little time with no soul or merit.
If you can't distinguish AI generated images from human made images, that says more about you than the images tbh and I have nothing really to say about that. I don't know how others perceive things, i can only talk about my own perception.
and people have unsuccesfully tried to define what 'demoscene-ish' is for year, so don't even bother with that.
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How can AI imagery be unoriginal/derivative/flat etc. and at the same time threaten to put artists producing fresh original pieces out of work?
Cause the higher-ups don't give a shit and if they can get ugly shit that gets the job done for cheap they would do it.
I saw a budget shop here advertise with some super ugly AI promo art for easter.
And I find using AI in de demoscene context just disappointing, like, we are here ONLY for the creative part and you decide to have some dumb computer do that for you.
I totally can see people think the same about using a game engine to make demo and I'm not mad if a coder comments on a demo doing that being disappointed his skill is underrepresented.
I'm also not saying that people shouldn;t use AI, i just feel it's super lame and it looks terrible.
I totally can see people think the same about using a game engine to make demo and I'm not mad if a coder comments on a demo doing that being disappointed his skill is underrepresented.
I'm also not saying that people shouldn;t use AI, i just feel it's super lame and it looks terrible.
All right, let's be realistic about AI in the demoscene. It's here to stay and ignoring it is not an option. Just as PC demos brought capabilities that C64 demos couldn't match, AI introduces a new set of tools and possibilities. But that doesn't mean we should lump everything together in a competition. It's like comparing apples and oranges if we start mixing traditional digital art with AI-generated pieces in the same compo.
It makes sense to create a separate space for AI art. Using AI isn't just about hitting a generate button; it's about exploring new creative frontiers, pushing the boundaries of what's possible, and producing work that's truly impressive. The demoscene has always been about using the latest technology in innovative ways. Why stop now with AI? By creatively integrating AI and giving it its rightful place, we can continue to lead the way in technology and art, exploring uncharted territory without losing what makes the scene special.
It makes sense to create a separate space for AI art. Using AI isn't just about hitting a generate button; it's about exploring new creative frontiers, pushing the boundaries of what's possible, and producing work that's truly impressive. The demoscene has always been about using the latest technology in innovative ways. Why stop now with AI? By creatively integrating AI and giving it its rightful place, we can continue to lead the way in technology and art, exploring uncharted territory without losing what makes the scene special.
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It makes sense to create a separate space for AI art. Using AI isn't just about hitting a generate button; it's about exploring new creative frontiers, pushing the boundaries of what's possible, and producing work that's truly impressive.
Let me know when this starts happening! Might change my mind then!
It would also be nice if the ethical issues would be resolved and it wouldnt be a huge tech bro steal fest.
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Honestly, throughout the discussion I am getting the feeling that, with regards to graphics & graphics compos, what stands in the balance is: Plagiarism is fine unless it's plagiarism achieved by using AI.
I just know that you are aware that this is a classic example of non-argument. Even whataboutism perhaps. Are you suggesting that laying off the AI criticism is going to make the "pedestrian" plagiarism situation better? Are you saying that we need not solve one problem simply because another problem exists? It sounds like someone saying "I won't sort/recycle my trash because my cousin throws cigarette butts on the pavement, so it's all the same."
And yes, btw, I personally think that AI plagiarism is an order of magnitude more damaging than "pedestrian" plagiarism.
What you're saying sometimes comes off (at least to me) like you kinda think all demoscene "art" is worthless, and that the difference between worthless and AI worthless is near zero to you.
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How can AI imagery be unoriginal/derivative/flat etc. and at the same time threaten to put artists producing fresh original pieces out of work?
Because you (or someone) can't spot the difference between human and AI, that's why it's threatening. Not because it's good, but because it's bad and yet people fail to see it.
I saw comments under Toxic Modulo 2 that go like "I'd never guess it was AI". THAT's what makes artists cringe. Or pull their hair out. How do you think shitty pop music can squeeze out real music?
Separate space for AI art?
What art? Do you think there's art in the demoscene? Well yes, it does exist. But it's so rare, it comes as a shining beacon in dark night, it's always easy to recognise it, even if you're intoxicated. Demoscene is mostly craftwork, often of a high caliber. But not art.
And why would anybody do a ZX-spectrum-with-AI demo compo...
What art? Do you think there's art in the demoscene? Well yes, it does exist. But it's so rare, it comes as a shining beacon in dark night, it's always easy to recognise it, even if you're intoxicated. Demoscene is mostly craftwork, often of a high caliber. But not art.
And why would anybody do a ZX-spectrum-with-AI demo compo...
