pouët.net

Yeah, there is the mentality here of "you expect me to work on a project for months, then release it, for free? I need to earn a living from that!" Kapitalizm!, and such. But hey, we can build a giant penis rocket to send billionaires into space, so there's that.

You guys are basically just a bunch of sellouts. Now you sit here wishing you were more popular even though you're more popular than you've ever been.

You guys basically just let everyone across the world steal from you.

Regrets fixed by categorizing as Residue. Main attitude is you decide it's not worth discussing.


An absolute ton of demos, game, and art were made while learning art, programming, music. Doesn't explain the decades of releases since then. This was the argument that spoke against Gargaj's 'end of thread' attempt. So an explanation is yet withstanding, and this is why the topic is an interesting subject.


In every country, you need to earn a living, so I don't think there's a difference in mentality at all. If anything, the US displays a high desire to compete in all things, and I'm sure the above wager is still ongoing in the US - keep outputting art - for potential profitability fame, success.

We've seen it in startup companies, indie game devs, musicians for centuries. During those centuries, if all artists and musicians are potentially working for free, why not demos when we see US coders wanting to be competitive in all other ventures with no promise of profitability?

It's especially strange because regarding consoles, this promise is absolutely zero unless you're already big enough to even get on the list for, let alone buy a license first. Any kind of computer would offer more, at the very least a showcase - as for artists'/musicians showreels.

That is to say, even if you would offer consoles as explanation it's unsatisfactory, because it would only have killed off the home computer coder, and supplanting the PC as that "any kind of computer" where creative output could reach an audience for a few years doesn't explain the absence of US PC Demoscene releases.

And for the same decades certainly they love alcohol as much as all Demosceners, but US Demoparties are also lacking-on-the-verge-of-nonexistant, while I see a great love for retro hardware in the US and following hardware expansions for such.

This the stop I hit and the reason for posting. To me at least, this remains very much an open question and as yet unexplained. The cracking scene was certainly heard of over there. Not a single demo made the Demoscene heard of, in 35 years??

Hah. s/centuries/decades... ;)

We're at more than a third of a century, but not halfway there yet.

They are too busy playing their games with RTX ON that they bought by scamming people with their fake cryptocurrency and the government let's them get away with it. While letting piracy get out of control and the government doesn't do about it that either and since they are all programmers now because of udemy, coursera, youtube, etc. they apparently have better things to make. They can basically do whatever they want because if they go broke they can just go beg for money on kickstarter, gofundme, or pump up a stock. Americans are basically garbage and that's why they aren't in the demoscene and most the new ones here are only here because the internet decided the world needed more programmers for no reason. probably because people are lazy and don't like programmers to have jobs or make money. now here we are.

Demo's are just games without the interaction and worse graphics than the unreal engine. Probably because epic has way more employees and you guys like reinventing the wheel.

I'm gonna politely stop you right there.

"religion makes people kill each other, science gives them the means, philosophy makes them feel good about it." -Gargaj

It's all becoming true Gargaj.

best part of this thread so far: an actual american with actual 30+ years long demoscene pedigree on that actual continent giving an actually plausible answer to the actual original thread question... photon just disregarding it and ranting on with his particular views of the world! that's just pouet at its best! :D

hexen: I<3U

Hey thanks. Gentleman guy.

best part for me so far: maali being serious for once and making an actual point.

"You know it's bad when..."

i did prefer heretic over hexen.

From a "兩岸" perspective:
1) By the late 1980s, home computers were being replaced by Nintendo (mostly) and Sega (less often) consoles in American households. This turned people more to consumption.
2) Some of my European classmates had computers. They were used for gaming but also for exploration. Among my American classmates, pursuing a deeper understanding of a computer was not socially acceptable.
3) Americans live farther apart, even when attending the same school. Transportation depends on parents driving or having access to a car (and fuel and insurance to operate it).
4) By the early 1990s, the PC became the dominant platform, and its limited facilities could be expanded by dropping a couple of $100 in a store to get a card to have enjoyable sound and video.
5) Absolute disposable income among the middle class to spend on tech was and is higher in America than in Europe.
6) European demo material was made accessible to Americans via BBSs. Perhaps with some mediation like PC MOD players or 8bit emulators. This is how I first explored demos in the European sense. But I had seen American cracktros for Apple and Commodore before.
7) Hosting a party is (was?) apparently less legally and financially complicated in Europe. In the US, the site will probably demand occupancy limits, open paths, no smoking, drinking, nor sleeping. All of which I saw "violated" at Evoke.
8) Someone before mentioned free college in Europe. There are students in America that are pretty hard up. But also very many that are not limited by having to work a job during university.