Suggestions to reunite the demoscene
category: parties [glöplog]
Quite a bit of conditional probability there. :)
Salinga, it's not entirely clear what you want to say with that. Are you an "anti vaxer" - and in how far does this advance the discussion?
@bifat: The study you linked (if we can trust any study these days...) comes down to the verdict: If you belong to the group of the "fittest" of the "survival of the fittest" game regarding Covid you'll be fine (how surprising...) ...if not, you might have a problem...which logically proofs that vaccination makes totally sense as you wouldn't know if you belong to that group or not and then mostly only vaccination would help you...
@Kuemmel: Of course I've read it, and I agree that vaccinations can make sense. I just wouldn't agree that people should be coerced into getting them, directly or indirectly. I plead for some understanding and tolerance for those who do not get one. (And that's my whole point.)
@Bifat if there is one scene who has a major understanding and tolerance than its the demoscene! Point taken you wanna be -in any way, even outside- on a fysical party soonish to release your demo. Please have some faith in fysical party organizers organizing a party when we are (hopefully) are nearer and nearer getting out of this pandemic. Not every party can please everybody just yet. And with Faith I mean stop discussing now and release a new crappack ;)
Anti vaxxers are personally responsible that we will not reach a herd immunity which would have protected the health of millions (currently infected: 216 million and counting) and saved millions of lives (current deaths: 4.5 millions and counting). They deserve all the intolerance they get with their hateful behavior towards not only their local community but also the global community.
It is a typical narcissistic trait to paint people as having a bad character ("intolerant") when they disclose the negative, self centered, destructive character of the narcissist: Discredit the source of information, that goes against their interest, because in the end, it's all about them.
It is a typical narcissistic trait to paint people as having a bad character ("intolerant") when they disclose the negative, self centered, destructive character of the narcissist: Discredit the source of information, that goes against their interest, because in the end, it's all about them.
Fun fact: Tolerance directed at intolerance has not a positive outcome, but in fact it increases the intolerance and gives it more space to flourish. It is almost mathematical: Negative multiplied with positive results into more negative. Only positive multiplied with positive results into more positive and negative multiplied with negative (intolerance towards intolerance) results into more positive.
@Salinga, the vaccine was a great hope to reach herd immunity at the beginning, but the latest news are bad and as we are learning more from the disease, it seems that were were wrong, and herd immunity cannot be reached with the vaccine because of variants, and also because vaccinated people can still transmit the virus (see here for example). That being said, I would love to read better news, can you point me to any recent article stating we can reach herd immunity with the vaccine?
Salinga, you insinuate that
- herd immunity is possible
- herd immunity is possible through vaccination
- herd immunity is possible through currently available vaccinations
- herd immunity is possible through nothing else but currently available vaccinations
- not getting vaccinations would be an act of intolerance, excluding all other possible reasons
So your entire post is made of thin air and dodges the premise and question:
How do we deal with it that not everybody will show a vaccination certificate at the entrance of a demoparty?
Mixing in wild assessments of psychological conditions in others doesn't advance the topic either.
- herd immunity is possible
- herd immunity is possible through vaccination
- herd immunity is possible through currently available vaccinations
- herd immunity is possible through nothing else but currently available vaccinations
- not getting vaccinations would be an act of intolerance, excluding all other possible reasons
So your entire post is made of thin air and dodges the premise and question:
How do we deal with it that not everybody will show a vaccination certificate at the entrance of a demoparty?
Mixing in wild assessments of psychological conditions in others doesn't advance the topic either.
@Bifat are you working on a new crappack by now? or still debating? :)
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Anti vaxxers are personally responsible that we will not reach a herd immunity which would have protected the health of millions (currently infected: 216 million and counting) and saved millions of lives (current deaths: 4.5 millions and counting). They deserve all the intolerance they get with their hateful behavior towards not only their local community but also the global community.
Where can i find data for these claims? And once again, not taking these experimental corona jabs does not mean one is anti-vaccine.
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Where can i find data for these claims? And once again, not taking these experimental corona jabs does not mean one is anti-vaccine.
Pestis already did so in another thread:
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Vaccine-resistance emerges when there's a lot of virus around. The more of virus around, the more likely some of them are to mutate and the more likely there is to be a vaccine-resistant strain among the mutants. Delta variant emerged in late 2020 from India (https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-637724/v1), when the vaccination rate was 0.
The more people take the vaccine, the less virus is around to mutate.
and re: "experimental corona jabs": remember the post (I sadly can't find it anymore) about how, instead of running the multiple trial phases one after another, they were run in parallell for this one instead? it still passed all the tests. if it didn't have to, the vaccines would've been here at least half a year earlier.
we need a suggestion box, but i fear 30% don't want to use it
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@Salinga, the vaccine was a great hope to reach herd immunity at the beginning, but the latest news are bad and as we are learning more from the disease, it seems that were were wrong, and herd immunity cannot be reached with the vaccine because of variants, and also because vaccinated people can still transmit the virus (see here for example). That being said, I would love to read better news, can you point me to any recent article stating we can reach herd immunity with the vaccine?
The estimated required vaccination rates hover but 85% of the whole population could do the trick https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.16.21260642v1
Impossible in theory - probably not. Impossible in practice - probably yes, because people don't get vaccinated. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy ("no point getting vaccinated because I think herd immunity is not possible")
Herd immunity rate is a lot thornier subject than mortality or vaccine efficiency as the former is more sociology and the latter are more biology. The necessary vaccination rates are totally different in say, New York vs. Finnish country side. It depends on how people behave, and whether this change in behavior is permanent. I agree that I would not put much confidence in any of the projections what the rate should be.
Consider it a bonus when we reach it; fortunately there's good reasons to vaccinate besides herd immunity.
Consider it a bonus when we reach it; fortunately there's good reasons to vaccinate besides herd immunity.
For vaccines that are approved for all ages, Finland has vaccinations rates of over 90%, even 95%. I'm mildly hopeful that we might reach 80% even with Covid-19 vaccines only given to 12+ olds. But once they approve vaccines for all ages, 90%+ is doable but will it come in time is another question.
Anyway, we will reach herd immunity but when and how (vaccines vs. natural) is much uncertain.
Anyway, we will reach herd immunity but when and how (vaccines vs. natural) is much uncertain.
Sometimes I wonder how some people think that their immune system is good enough to beat covid without problems while at the same time it's so bad that it can't handle a vaccination.
Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine—but no infection parties, please
Pre-print study out of Israel suggest that natural immunity is 13x more effective than vaccines at stopping Delta variant. I'll take the virus over the vaccine any day.
Pre-print study out of Israel suggest that natural immunity is 13x more effective than vaccines at stopping Delta variant. I'll take the virus over the vaccine any day.
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Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine—but no infection parties, please
Pre-print study out of Israel suggest that natural immunity is 13x more effective than vaccines at stopping Delta variant. I'll take the virus over the vaccine any day.
I think this was linked already, but if not it was all over the news in Finland. Anyway, no hard suprises here as vaccines only are similar to the virus but not exactly the same thing.
Did you not notice the disclaimer that please don't consider getting infected to gain immunity? It's still lot safer to vaccinate and then get Covid-19. Sciencemag is a credible source, but what you conclude does not follow.
Also I am baffled by the suggestions that we should try to avoid getting Covid-19 by... getting Covid-19? wth
I am not looking to get either Covid-19 or the vaccine, but if I had to choose I would prefer to get the virus over the vaccine.
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I am not looking to get either Covid-19 or the vaccine, but if I had to choose I would prefer to get the virus over the vaccine.
Well, I think then there's not much more to say than: godspeed, Gabbie.
Thanks, Godspeed to all.